Survivor - Samoa - Page 2

Hey, Hanson, this will be a three way battle for Colleen, you've got Hammer to contend with, too.

Hanson, amazing how you find this stuff.

Uhm, would love to watch Season One, but I'm not
going to buy it right now (provided it is on DVD).

Any other means for watching it online?

It is on DVD, I rented it from Netflix.

Ron: What do you mean by "scripted to a small extent"? Do you think the producers manipulate things in the voting such that certain people stay? Something like that?

As far as I'm concerned, Russell is an unfortunate aspect of reality TV these days. That is, in order to gain viewers and create a buzz, you have to have a "nut" on the show causing chaos, and so on. It can be entertaining, but it can also ruin the "average person" concept of these shows. I'm hoping Russell (who is not very good at hiding his alliances) gets kicked out quick. He probably wouldn't mind that as he clearly wants to be a celebrity and probably actually doesn't want to be away from civilization for too long!

Check out the end of the show credits.  There are writers on the show.

I refuse to believe anyone outside of Probst receives anything written to say.  I don't think this out of any sense of naivete but a sense of the incredible lawsuits that would be faced by CBS and Mark Burnett. 

I could see where there are writers who might review the "dailies" of the activities on the island and see what's happening and help Probst form his line-of-questioning for tribal councils.  He might also be given written prompts on how to set up challenges and explain situations, etc.

But I will go out on a limb and say, in no uncertain terms, that the outcome of the show is not "scripted" in any way.  This is NOT the WWE. 

And if it turns out is IS the WWE, I will be first in line for a class-action suit for being duped all these years. 

I think when contestants say they are given a certain "edit" on the show, that's part of the writing of the social narrative of the show in terms of how the footage is cut together to lead the viewer in one direction or another to keep the suspense up for the viewers before heading to tribal council, but the outcome from the social interactions and the challenges, and the votes, are not scripted.

I should've clarified that I think that when given hundreds of hours of footage - it is put together in such a way to tell a certain story.  I'm sure that's what the writers and editors are there for.

Major groaner of an episode, only because I'm rooting against Russell, and he keeps on with the upper hand.

Yasmine is an unbelievable personality in terms of no awareness of she comes across to people, and then there's Ben, the wild child who doesn't apologize for anything he does and doesn't care how his actions affect others.  How do the producers find these people?

I really did not like tonight's episode.

I'm with KevA about Russell.  I think the producers did a disservice to the show and fans by selecting him...assuming that they knew what they were getting.  Watching Survivor with Russell is like watching a scripted show.  He's not real therefore it's not real. 

And as I've said on a number of occasions in past seasons, I HATE those kind of rough, physical challenges.  Gosh, they sent a 60+ year old man to the hospital.  No $&*#.  What did they think would happen?  And all that idiot cares about is that he took it like a man.  I couldn't believe the way bodies were flying around in there.  It's amazing there weren't more serious injuries.  It's almost like the producers don't realize that they are using real people on their show. 

My wife cannot believe how well put-together Ashley continues to look after so many days in the wild.   I have to agree!      Did they let her bring make-up for her luxury item?

This has probably been the worst first two episodes of any season besides Fiji. Honestly, everything about this episode was just so freakin' negative it was unbelievable. I pretty much have nothing to add to Mike's post...but I'm going to anyway.


Exactly. I really would've thought that Jeff Probst, Mark Burnett, and everyone behind the show would've been able to detect how fake this guy is, but perhaps I've given them too much credit. Or, more distressingly and unfortunately I think more accurately, they are aware of it but find him so "entertaining" that they're willing to not only overlook his artificiality but devote 75% of the show to him. I won't deny that you had the occasional camera-hungry contestants in the early seasons (Greg Buis in season 1, Jeff Varner in season 2) but those sort of antics were simply not tolerated, or at least not rewarded back then--it wasn't until Shane in S12 that they really began to give these people what they wanted by broadcasting their gimmicky antics.

The thing that really gets me and shows just how deaf the producers are to the audience is that--when you had villains in the past (Richard, Jerri, even Fairplay), they were despised and very clearly meant to be edited to provoke that reaction. But even though you hated them, you appreciated what they brought to the show. With Russell H, and Coach last season, they get shoved in your faces so much that you just get irritated with them and not in a love-to-hate way. (Personally I liked Coach a lot, and I think the one good thing about Russell is that hopefully he'll make people appreciate Coach a little more--at least Coach was genuine in his delusions and not just pathetically seeking airtime.) I really think that this tactic was a mistake and it's going to blow up in their faces when:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show) Anyway, I'll give Russell credit for the idol find at least--but maybe it's a sign that the producers are getting a little too predictable when this moron is able to find the idol without a single clue. Too bad it's useless for him since the Foa Foa idol is hidden at Galu.


Ditto. Not only are they overly dangerous, but they're so uncreative. "Uh, for this challenge...you're going to play basketball while beating the hell out of each other." I loved back in the day when physical contact challenges were limited to "attack zone" things where there was at least some strategy involved beyond pummeling a senior citizen. You could forgo a confrontation if you didn't think it was necessary; there was no need to worry about getting choked or kicked. It really just shows how much the show has devolved over the years. Don't get me wrong, I still love it, but man do I miss what it used to be.

Speaking of getting kicked...ok, it was a cheap move but that was practically harmless compared to what just about everyone else was doing (before and after Ben was kicked out). It felt like Jeff just wanted to make "history" by pulling someone out of a challenge because it was just as rowdy afterwards and he didn't say anything. And for the record, it's not the first time someone was kicked out of a challenge--but it is the first time someone was kicked out arbitrarily because Jeff was on a power trip.


Seriously! If I were on the show and had to be medically removed after a hardcore challenge (and at this rate, they'll be providing contestants with handguns for challenges soon enough), you can believe my reaction would be less "Well, I had a great time anyway" and more screaming expletives at the producers for approving a challenge like that.

That's another big difference between how the show was in the past--in the first 11 seasons of the show, ONE person was forced out of the game for medical reasons. It was because of an accident, nothing the producers had a hand in. In the eight seasons that followed (the last of which we're only two episodes into), it's happened to six people--one person with a blocked colon late in the game; one was an older guy who got an infection early on; the other four were injured in challenges the producers set up.

The real shame is that it's more likely they'll just stop casting older contestants than put an end to those sort of challenges.

Rant over...for now.

And as someone who is also a fan of some other reality shows (Amazing Race, Biggest Loser) it is sad to see the producers feel compelled to always be "pushing the envelope" to make things bigger, crazier, etc.

In this year's BL, they took this year's cast (many of them woefully out-of-shape and 400+ pounds) and the very first thing they did was put them in a competition to see who can finish first in a one-mile race up a CA beach.  Gosh.  Surprise.  Two of the contestants ended up hospitalized--one a 60+ year old man who was severely dehydrated and the other a woman who was hospitalized several days. 

Are the producers of these different shows gunning to see who can be the first to actually kill someone?!?    It all seems so irresponsible.  

Come to think of it, didn't a contestant end up dying during the filming of a foreign version of Survivor several months ago? 

That challenge in this week's Survivor definitely seemed to be irresponsible. 

Frankly, too, I was also surprised they went ahead with an elimination after the old guy got medically removed from the game. 

That happened in Survivor Bulgaria.


Whenever you have 20 contestants, there has to be a couple of double eliminations somewhere since there are 14 weeks and 20 contestants.  If you pick off one contestant a week, you end up with 6 contestants in the last show instead of a final four.  So if someone has to check out, they don't have to have as many double eliminations.

BTW, if you want to know why Black Russell wears his buff as a headband 24/7, here's your answer:


Either that or Ben ripped out some dreadlocks in the challenge.

Separated at Birth:


Freaky looking Samoan fish & Jaison


Walrus & Mike


Watto & Mike


Ewok & Russell


Dale Gribble & Ben

I admit, I'm enjoying this season start far more then most.  I get that people think Russel is a gimick or whatever.  I beleive that he had this plan all along to be a complete asshole and see how far it takes him.  And after this many seasons, I figured someone had to come up with a new take on a strategy to win.  I have no problem with it.

And, it's makes me laugh.  His strategy of hunting for the immunity idol without clues is something I advocated about two seasons ago.  You've seen the game, you know the ins and outs, why not take every short cut you can imagine?

I think my wife has the most cogent view of Russell yet:


'Nuff said. 


But, Matt.  Didn't he say he doesn't care about winning?  For him it seems to be all about simply stirring the pot and causing trouble.  I don't find that entertaining--definitely not without the motivation of trying to win the game.  Maybe I don't remember correctly.  I know he said he doesn't care about the money. 

I haven't been around this show long enough to spot
phoniness. To me, I am always suspicious about reality
shows like SURVIVOR because what you are seeing may
not be actually what happened.  I think the producers look
for reactions and I would bet many of them are cleverly
cut into situations that may not necessarily be tied to the
actions.   The idea here is to take as many hours of footage
as possible and cut it down to the point where an interesting
story is being told.

So, with that in mind, I tend to agree with mattCR.  I am
really enjoying this season for the fact that we have someone
like Russell who is taking on a completely new strategy to
win.   

Coach was annoying for me because all he did was tell
these Indiana Jones stories about himself.  Russell, on
the other hand, is at least up front that he's full of shit.  
Though I don't agree with his tactics of gameplay, I can
certainly see why he's a goldmine for the show.  Will he
actually be able to win the show based on deception or will
he be caught in some act?  Quite frankly, I am on the edge
of my seat to find that out.

...and give the guy credit for finding the hidden idol 
without any clues.  However, as I think someone pointed
out here, they didn't do a very good job hiding it.  After 
all these seasons it tends to become obvious the places
one needs to look.

 

"Yasmin is pretty close to being a hooker."
 

Let's call that one "line of the day."

It will be a while until her own tribe realizes what
they have on their hands, but I can't wait to see
this girl gone.


Finally, a salute to Mike.  I was actually choking
up when they took him out of camp.   I also agree
that the play here was a little too rough -- certainly
the most pounding competition I have witnessed
since watching the show three years ago.

Good choice on voting Betsey out.  I have no
problem with Ben.  At least he's honest. 

Russell did say he does not care about the money (he is a multi-millionaire); he did say he wants to win the game, however.

 

I thought the second episode was quite good. Russell appeared more "normal"; he didn't really cause any chaos this time.

 

I also agree that a "narrative" is created by the Survivor producers and editors, but "scripted" isn't quite the right term for it. For those who have watched the show more than a few times, you will constantly see this in the drama leading up to the tribal council vote. The Survivor producers will skillfully edit together the pre-tribal-council discussions to make it appear as if there are (say) two people who are being considered to be voted out. In the end, you'll see practically everybody vote for one person. (Last night was a rare exception in this regard: Betsy was so much a unanimous choice, they couldn't edit things to create uncertainty there!) If you want to call this "scripted," I agree with that for sure; I'd call it manipulative editing, or something like that.
 

I always liked what the Survivor team comes up with in terms of the challenges, but I agree with the comments made here about the physical nature of these challenges being excessive. Since the early days of Survivor, it's been obvious that's it unfair to put younger people up against older people in these things; and men against women as well, in some cases. And yet they continue to do it. They should create more "intellectual" challenges; or, if they need sensationalistic television, some more bug-eating challenges, etc.

That reminds me.  I was wondering if the shot of Russell's hand going up to grab the wrapped idol inside the tree was fabricated...

Obviously, it would have been a tight fit for the cameraman to get inside that stump with Russell AND his stomach.  And it would have been mighty dark in there.  And, he got away from the stump without anyone seeing that he had the idol. 

I figure they must've either reenacted it later when no one was around...or it was the hand of a crew member and they created the shot when the cast was off at a challenge (or in rehearsal).  I'm sure they do that a lot...this particular example just seemed very obvious. 

I'm not a big fan of editing to create a false illusion.  They do it a lot on The Biggest Loser.  During the weigh-ins and the revelas they'll have someone step on the scale abd the host announce "and your current weight is..."  They'll then cut to a reaction shot of other contestants gsping with widened eyes (or something similar) before cutting to a commercial.

After you come back from commercial, they complete the weigh-in and it turns out it wasn't all that dramatic and the cut-away must've come from some other moment.  Lame. 

I understand the need to create a well-told tale...but I kinda hate being misled at the same time.  I know others disagree with this hang-up of mine.  I think, for me, it's got something to do with the word 'reality."

I did read that they use psychologists when selecting the contestants.  And that they look for different personality traits and how they will react with each other.

I think this season they went and reviewed their cast options and looked for the box checked "crazy" on the evaluations.

Damn, Mike, what a great observation.

Had to be re-enacted.  I mean, Russell went up that
tree and hid the idol in his pants without anyone seeing
it.  Now if a cameraman had gone in there with him
there would be a great deal of emphasis put on what
was done.

I could not agree more with what's being said here, last night's ep was a disgrace.

Even before Jeff said "You came THAT close to it getting ugly." I thought it was already ugly!

People slamming each other to the ground, getting each other in choke holds and ramming each other like bulls made me turn away and wince more than a few times.

And that's all before we had to endure Ben (just an awe-inspiringly colossal prick) and Russell (or as I call him the little evil troll who lives under a bridge).

Coming off from watching season one last week and seeing how simple the game was, how straight forward and honest with no clear villains or heroes was great, it's in stark contrast to this.

Yes, they probably re-enacted that (grabbing the idol inside the tree). No big deal. Makes perfect sense and doesn't harm any reality aspect of the show whatsoever.

It most likely was.  The end credits for shows like this often include a disclaimer that scenes not affecting the outcome may be... reshot or something.  I take this to mean shots like Russel's hand reaching up the tree may have been filmed while everyone was at the challenge.

Also, I have to wonder if the game wound up being more violent than they planned.  It's not the first time they had a challenge that involved physical interaction with another player.  Probst wrote in his blog that this is a game that the crew created in their downtime.  It's played with whatever balls they have around and two garbage cans.  It had become so popular they decided to reformulate it into a challenge.  I don't believe it was intended to be an aggressive game, I think the players took it there. Like the football game at the company picnic, you can play to have fun, or you can really take it out on the Sales Department.

It was definitely intended intended to be aggressive--maybe not to that degree but they amped up the game the crew created to make it a totally physical brawl. In almost every season since Palau (season 10), there's at least one all-out no-holds-barred challenge of this sort in the first three episodes and they seem to get more intense every time. Before season 10 we only had three instances...and they all used the beloved Attack Zone.

This garden gnome helps your plants by pouring canteens of water in the middle of the night:

 Hee-Hee, Hanson!

The Evil Midget is a Garden Gnome after all.

Wha?  Puppet Master didn't get his way?

It is just stunning how little we are seeing of the Galu tribe.

We finally got to their camp at the ten minute mark of tonight's episode, watched about a minute of the yoga and then--right back to Russell and Co. (that IS the name of their tribe, isn't it?)!

We know nothing about those other folks, while Russell & Co. have already lost four members. 

So Russell, what's your plan for the game?

I'm going to form alliances with all the dumb ass girls, then each one of them voted off.

And when it's just you and the guys left, then what?

um...

What's annoying me about Evil Russell is that he doesn't care at all for the game, he just wants something to have control over like a spoiled brat.  He can't see past manipulating the tribe on who to get rid of.  Characters like Coach and Fairplay were fun to love/hate but Russell has nothing fun to watch.  He doesn't like the way someone wears their hair so he works at getting that person kicked off, then he gloats to the camera.  There's nothing else going for him.

Oh, yeah, and super dumb move going for pillows and blankets over a tarp.

Yeah, black Russell did not endear himself to the men in the tribe with that move.