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Survivor - Samoa - Page 10

post #271 of 325
12/21/09 at 11:39am
I've been waiting for years for someone to tell the jury "yes, I lied cheated and stole.  Vote for me because I beat you.  Respect my play."  Too many times, players apologized for some of their best moves because they were trying to say they were honest. I'd rather they'd embrace the vicious side of the game for what it is.  Russell by far came the closest.  His work during final tribal was very close to perfect.  In hindsight, he only left a couple of things unused.  1. He made the same mistake Amanda did by not reminding the jury that they voted him off, so they should not hold it against him that he voted them off.  But for the HII, their roles would be reversed.  Don't hate the playa, hate the game.  2. Related, he didn't emphasize the point that he found 3 HII's to the jury and that one was pivotal in keeping the Galu's going down.

I also thought his pinning his chances at 55% was a good play designed to maybe get a vote or two from someone on the fence who might give someone else a sympathy vote.

After being portrayed as evil the first few eps, he turned into the best player ever.

Anyone else disappointed that they are going the Real World/Road Rules Challenge route with HvV?  I'm ok with All Stars I suppose, but I'd rather see new faces.
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post #272 of 325
12/21/09 at 12:46pm
Damn, the dude who wrote that article said a mouthful.

It's clear to me the more I read the more I can see, after the fog has cleared, that Russell had no real power over anyone and that Natalie by being quiet and seeing how this will probably go down at the end, kept quiet and relied on it going down that way which it did.

She had faith that jury saw Russell for what he was and would vote accordingly and she was right, she banked on it and it paid off.

Yep, it's clear to me that Natalie deserved the win, despite what many are saying, I simply no longer feel that Russell was the best player in the end.
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post #273 of 325
12/21/09 at 1:06pm
No doubt Natalie deserved to win. As a whole Russell's social game was horrible. The true greats stab you in the back and you thank them for it. When Russell blind sided people they hated him for it.
 

Any news on who is in the cast of the next season? Hopefully they don't bring some people back for a third time, enough is enough after awhile.
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post #274 of 325
12/21/09 at 1:22pm
There are lots of threepeats in HvV.
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post #275 of 325
12/21/09 at 1:24pm
During that quick preview for next season last night they had really quick flashes of the people who will be on next season, I slo-mo'd it and managed to make out Ozzy and Coach but no Russell.

It probably wasn't complete, though.
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post #276 of 325
12/21/09 at 1:43pm
I've gone ahead and started a thread for season 20, with the cast list, so no need to speculate on season 20 in this thread for season 19.  Thanks.
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post #277 of 325
12/21/09 at 3:21pm
I haven't been here in a while so I have a lot to catch up on, and I will of course make a massive post about the finale + season/winner rankings sometime soon...but briefly: Needless to say, I'm not satisfied with Natalie winning. However, I am absolutely thrilled that Russell, the single most overrated player in the history of Survivor, did not.
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post #278 of 325
12/21/09 at 3:31pm
I have to admit I was tickled pink when Natalie won because it meant I won a Survivor pool elsewhere.  Heh heh.
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post #279 of 325
12/21/09 at 3:43pm
LMAO the 'view last post read' worked for me.  First time in this thread since September 18th.  Loved this season.  Russel was my second favorite player ever, just behind Rupert.  Both got robbed but VERY different play styles  =(  Glad he made it to final four, thought he'd win it in the showdown, but the bottom line is he BLEW IT in the jury interviews.  He totally could have sold even Eric if he had played it out as a better speaker.

I am not thrilled with the idea of Heros and Villains but will do the same thing I did for this season, read up till the first airing then not join in until the end, I just can't risk spoilers sorry!  This is the ONLY tv show I watch, and its a family thing.

I will go back over what I missed during the next few days, 9 pages of what should be a lot of fun reading!
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post #280 of 325
12/21/09 at 4:22pm
I would argue that Cerie from Exile Island and Fans vs. Favs was a greater "evil genius" than Russell.  She basically ran her tribe like Russell.  Check the voting breakdown in the Exile Island season;  essentially every person she voted for got voted out.  She had no protective idols.  Most importantly, everyone loved her, like she was a mother hen, while she slipped a shiv between their ribs.  The only reason she never made a finals was she was incapable of winning immunities in the late innings of the game.  Russell was as subtle as a freight train and expected universal adulation from the people he ran over.  He played to make the finals, but not to win a jury vote. 
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post #281 of 325
12/21/09 at 4:49pm
I totally agree. I'm no longer a huge Cirie fan but she really excelled at the strategic and social elements of the game. Unfortunately she was too good at them, because nobody would want to face her in the end.

Quote:
Russel was my second favorite player ever, just behind Rupert.  Both got robbed but VERY different play styles


In all seriousness, I understand (but disagree with) people thinking Russell was robbed. But Rupert?

FWIW, CBS owes Brett a million dollars--look at where Russell's left hand is:
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post #282 of 325
12/21/09 at 4:53pm
I actually agree with what you're saying to a certain point about Cerie. However, early on (maybe even the first episode), she was headed out the door and it was essentially a coin flip as to whether she was being voted off. It was between her and that other woman (forgot her name) as to who was getting the axe. Cerie was spared really through no work of her own. And developed her keen plan along the way. Her plan really didn't materialize until mid season.    

On the other hand, from day one Russell was in control and was pulling strings and manipulating everyone. 
He had deals with everyone and those who didn't trust him (wisely) were always the first to go. He ruled the season's storyline 100%. I think Cerie fell into things and was excellent in seeing what the other tribe members were giving her. Russell? He manipulating them every step of the way. 
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post #283 of 325
12/21/09 at 5:28pm
After the football game delayed 60 minutes by 15 minutes
or so, my watching of this week's SURVIVOR was cut short.

Not a big deal.  The reunion show fell short 15 minutes but
I was already pissed off by then.

Natalie the winner?  The girl just showed up every day and
did nothing worthy of her being voted a winner.

Sure, Russell acted like a complete ass but he played the
game better than everyone.

So I have some questions here....

How long is the time between the taping on the Island
and the reunion show?   Did all the contestants watch
the show they were on?  I ask because I am shocked 
that nobody called Russell out on the carpet for all the
things he said about everyone behind their backs.

And isn't Russell going to be in the next Survivor 
show?  That hasn't started taping yet?  And if that
is the case is it really fair that those "best of" contestants
see how Russell plays the game?    He'll never be
trusted.
 

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post #284 of 325
12/21/09 at 5:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein View Post

After the football game delayed 60 minutes by 15 minutes
or so, my watching of this week's SURVIVOR was cut short.

Not a big deal.  The reunion show fell short 15 minutes but
I was already pissed off by then.

Natalie the winner?  The girl just showed up every day and
did nothing worthy of her being voted a winner.

Sure, Russell acted like a complete ass but he played the
game better than everyone.

So I have some questions here....

How long is the time between the taping on the Island
and the reunion show?   Did all the contestants watch
the show they were on?  I ask because I am shocked 
that nobody called Russell out on the carpet for all the
things he said about everyone behind their backs.

And isn't Russell going to be in the next Survivor 
show?  That hasn't started taping yet?  And if that
is the case is it really fair that those "best of" contestants
see how Russell plays the game?    He'll never be
trusted.
 


If the following link is correct, filming started in August, before Samoa aired.

http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/archives/survivor_heroes_vs_villains/2009_Jul_12_twist_location_confirmed
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post #285 of 325
12/21/09 at 5:52pm
Anthony-

 

That's kind of misleading.  I've watched this back a few times, and russel moved his hands almost immediately as the idol was falling.  But before, in at least the DVR copy I have, still by still, it seems to stay below.. it's only after it is already coming down that he moves.. he already knew it was over.

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post #286 of 325
12/21/09 at 5:53pm
The reunion was live (well, tape-delayed) last night. I think Russell did get called out for some things (notably the "dumbass girl alliance") but since Jeff Probst controls the discussion, people don't really get a chance to bring up everything--he didn't even ask generic update questions from some people last night.

Quote:
And if that
is the case is it really fair that those "best of" contestants
see how Russell plays the game?    He'll never be
trusted.

As Thomas said, filming began (and ended) before Samoa started airing. So Russell had a HUGE advantage that nobody in the cast had any idea how he played the game. Meanwhile, the other 19 players ALL had their cards laid out on the table as we've seen them play before, some of them twice. Russell had the disadvantage of having less than a month in between seasons though, but still, he's really the benefactor of this one.

I'd love to see Russell in an All-Stars season where everybody knows his style and can deal with him accordingly the way Richard, Colby, Tina, Rob Cesternino, etc. were in All-Stars...but that would require bringing him back a third time, so I take that back.

ETA: I didn't see the statue falling before, Matt--but you're right. My bad. That's what I get for trusting Survivor Sucks.
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post #287 of 325
12/21/09 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyC View Post

 



FWIW, CBS owes Brett a million dollars--look at where Russell's left hand is:
I don't get it.
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post #288 of 325
12/21/09 at 6:32pm
I'm on the side that Russell should have won.  The jury failed and was the worst I've seen.

Previous seasons had jurists "burned" by the ones that put them there, but this group really seemed to hold a grudge.  

But Natalie did play well too (not as good as Russell's, but good).  I think she should have acknowledged Russell's help on the reunion show. They truly had a partnership.  

By the way, who gave Russell the other vote besides Shambo?
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post #289 of 325
12/21/09 at 7:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Deeb View Post

I'm on the side that Russell should have won.  The jury failed and was the worst I've seen.

Previous seasons had jurists "burned" by the ones that put them there, but this group really seemed to hold a grudge.  

But Natalie did play well too (not as good as Russell's, but good).  I think she should have acknowledged Russell's help on the reunion show. They truly had a partnership.  

By the way, who gave Russell the other vote besides Shambo?

According to Wikipedia, the other vote came from John. I'm not surprised.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivor:_Samoa#Episode_14:_.22This_Game_Ain.27t_Over.22
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post #290 of 325
12/22/09 at 3:57am
I was thinking about the reunion show and something struck me with what Russell said at the live broadcast and I hope I didn't accidently figure out the winner of all-stars next season. I didn't read this anywhere, or find it on some gossip site, but I wanted to spoilerize it just in case, hey you never know:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
When Russell was being interviewed, the live reunion broadcast actually took place AFTER the all-stars show had finished taping, right? Well they were asking him about how he played the game in Samoa and he said an odd answer at the time. He was asked about whether Natalie was a better player since she won, etc. So he replied something about how he he didn't respect how most people played the game, and how he oddly respected the way Brett played the game, etc. Then he said something that was odd at the time. He mentioned how he respected how Boston Rob played the game and how (I think) he deserved to win, etc. At the time I remember thinking, "Boston Rob? Wow, Russell must really be a student of Survivor history to pull that name out." But then it kind of clicked that maybe he mentioned him because Boston Rob is in the All-Stars next season with Russell, and perhaps Boston Rob makes it to the finals?
 
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post #291 of 325
12/22/09 at 4:33am
Charlie,

What do you mean by:


Quote:

 Real World/Road Rules Challenge route with HvV
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post #292 of 325
12/22/09 at 7:27am
Russell looked like he wanted to cry the entire reunion. Honestly, I feel that boy was ripped off. I feel the title of Sole Survivor should have gone to him. Sadly though, he didn't understand that the jury he made, was going to hold a grudge. I agreed with Probst when he said that Natalie was crazy for turning down $100,000 from Russell. I thought Russells wife was adorable.

Looking back at that picture of Brett and Russell during the last challenge, it was very clear that Brett should have made it to the final 3. Sad. I wonder if someone will bring that up to the show.

I am looking forward to Heroes vs Villians.
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post #293 of 325
12/22/09 at 7:53am

Did Russell move his hand up after brett's fell? 

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post #294 of 325
12/22/09 at 7:57am
Okay...here's what ran through my strange mind during the reunion show.

I thought Russell had a rather pained/scared look on his face when he realized he wasn't going to win.  I understand disappointment/surprise...but I thought he had a really strange expression that ran between pissed and scared.

Then, when he made the $10,000/$100,000 offer to Natalie to give up the title "Sole Survivor" and have Jeff Probst "call him that"...I swear I got the idea that he must've made some huge bet with someone that '$x that Jeff Probst will be calling me "Sole Survivor" by the end of the show."  It all seemed so desperate.  The whole thing smacked of weirdness.  He wanted to "buy" the title sole survivor after he didn't win it? 

MikeM:  Russell was probably referencing that Boston Rob didn't win either Survivor series he played...even though Russell liked his style of play. 

Russell has already said he is a HUGE fan of the game (repeated during the reunion show).  You can be sure he's studied past seasons quite closely.  And...if you were going to compare his style with any other player's Boston Rob's just might be about the closest.
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post #295 of 325
12/22/09 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyC View Post

I totally agree. I'm no longer a huge Cirie fan but she really excelled at the strategic and social elements of the game. Unfortunately she was too good at them, because nobody would want to face her in the end.

 



In all seriousness, I understand (but disagree with) people thinking Russell was robbed. But Rupert?

FWIW, CBS owes Brett a million dollars--look at where Russell's left hand is:

 


That shot means nothing. You need the entire video to get real proof. When they were adding one of their last sticks, Brett finished adding his before Russell started. That shot could've taken place when Russell was about to finish adding the stick.
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post #296 of 325
12/22/09 at 8:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD View Post



I don't get it.

 


Both of their hands are supposed to be below the top of the white line on the lowest stick. But, I believe Russell was still adding the lowest stick when this shot was taken, so he wouldn't have been breaking the rules.
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post #297 of 325
12/22/09 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherG View Post

Charlie,

What do you mean by:

 Real World/Road Rules Challenge route with HvV
 



 

Only that it smacks of recycled and contrived drama.  I know people have accused Survivor of being "written" rather than played.  Or that the editing manipulates the viewer.  I am a purist when it comes to the game.  I don't need the producers to tell me who the heroes and villains are.  Nor do I like the idea that it looks like they are putting them on teams of one type against the other to start.  Not to mention that they've all seen each other play, except Russell.  What made them so appealling (good or bad) the first time through, is likely not to work the second (or third) time through when people have seen their A-game.  They'll have to reinvent themselves.  Some might do it well.  Others might not.  I'd rather just see a new group.  I don't need to see my favorite players again.  This is usually the kind of casting/plot move that signals shark jumping potential.  I'll have an open eye to see how it plays out, but I groaned when I saw the preview.  (Yes, I used "jump the shark."  As much as people hate the term, its meaning is pretty clear.)  :)
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post #298 of 325
12/22/09 at 11:45am
Yeh, but in that picture Brett's idol is falling off his platform.  So it wasn't during the adding of another stick.
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post #299 of 325
12/22/09 at 11:47am
I've watched it back a TON of times on DVR, and the idol is already tilting and falling off before Russel goes and grabs up on his stick.  If you look in the photo, the idol is -all the way off- and falling.  If you watch the film, Russel was right until his idol was just tilted over on his stand and coming off.  At that point, it was a done deal, the contest was over.  Russell didn't need to wait for the thing to hit the ground to move his hands.

 

The picture is kind of misleading, if you watch it on film, then it's pretty evident what happened, the other tribe members basically clapped the moment his idol hinged over and Russel moved.  Big deal, the game was over then.

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post #300 of 325
12/22/09 at 12:46pm
Probst final blog for Survivor Samoa:

http://popwatch.ew.com/2009/12/21/jeff-probst-survivor-russell/

Here's Russell blabbering with Dalton:

http://popwatch.ew.com/2009/12/21/survivor-talk-russell/
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