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post #211 of 349
10/4/09 at 1:29pm
I believe it is 120Hz...it is a Sony Bravia KDL52XBR5. However, the same issue occured at the theatrical screening a couple of weeks ago.
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The Wizard of Oz (70th Anniversary Ultimate Collector's Edition) [Blu-ray]
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post #212 of 349
10/4/09 at 3:27pm
FWIW, I see the jump on the BD.  It is incredibly slight...and hardly worth mentioning.  If I wasn't looking VERY hard for it, I NEVER would have noticed it.  Looks like a missing frame to me.  It's that slight.

And I am watching on a small set--a 26" Samsung HD CRT (TXN2668WHF).
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post #213 of 349
10/4/09 at 3:57pm
So is everyone going to ignore What Robert Ketler posted.
I'd love to know what Robert Harris thinks about it.
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post #214 of 349
10/4/09 at 4:06pm
Mike, Robert Harris said that it is not a missing frame.
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post #215 of 349
10/4/09 at 5:06pm
Thread Starter 


Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD View Post

I'd love to know what Robert Harris thinks about it.

Robert Harris thinks that the Blu-ray should be enjoyed, and not torn to pieces because of its extremely high resolution.

Threads such as this make a superb case for not bringing classic films out on Blu-ray, especially if they are scanned
at high resolutions.  As such they can easily become the very naked emperor.

Understand that Oz has been scanned at a resolution far above that of films such as Flags of Our Fathers, which was 2k and thusly went to film at that resolution.

My advice is for those who cannot accept the elements revealed by the high resolution, is to simply turn down their sharpness controls, and things will be a bit better.

There are obvious problems with allowing the public to see things that they may have never been meant to see.

Warner Home Video's release of The Wizard of Oz on Blu-ray should be a constant cause for excitement and exhilaration.

Not a discussion of a recall.

Those of us who work in the trenches are fully aware of what appear to be "missing frames" and re-cuts, especially for fx shots and printer functions in a myriad of popular feature films.  I'm not at all certain what particular mindset has them now being discussed as a "problem" when they were always there, albeit formerly not visible.

Please enjoy the film, and at least occasionally, allow those who create these discs to do their jobs without being castigated for making errors.

A final note.  Are there errors in Blu-ray discs?

Absolutely.  Unfortunately, more than there should have been.

Is The Wizard of Oz a problematic Blu-ray?

No.

No.

No.

But let's look at Mr. Ketler's remarks, which are generally on target.

The original WoZ prints, much like GWTW and others of the era, were extremely soft.  The problem is that if the film were to be released today as it looked in 1939, the general public would be decrying a lack of resolution.  They would cry that the disc is "out of focus."


Where does one go?

It appears that we must, within certain parameters, serve the public, and give them sharp images.  Would anyone other than a cinema historian or an archivist wish to view GWTW as it looked in 1939.  The absolute answer is "no."

Would I love to see a Blu-ray of WoZ looking much as it did in 1939?  Certainly.  But I'd be one of possibly a dozen people in the known universe to understand, appreciate and acknowledge what I'm seeing.

For the rest of those in the known universe, which is by last count far more than a dozen, the present BD should service their needs nicely.

RAH
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post #216 of 349
10/4/09 at 5:32pm
Exactly why I have the Blu version of the movie and will enjoy it when I watch it.
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post #217 of 349
10/4/09 at 5:37pm
I hope nobody misunderstood why I brought the issue of the jump up. I just wanted to find out what it was, and I know that you guys would be more helpful than asking my friends, who know very little about the ins and outs of film. I stated, and still feel, that this is one of if not the best digital restoration I have ever seen or heard. I love this film and I just wanted to make sure that nothing was botched during the transfer, because it can happen even under the best of conditions. Thanks to RAH for providing the explanation and expertise that I originally sought out. Sorry again guys for harping on a non-issue. I am now going to enjoy this masterpiece again.
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post #218 of 349
10/4/09 at 5:47pm
eric you may need to get in touch with a mod, I'm not sure they want multiple accounts.
also why did you register another account?
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post #219 of 349
10/4/09 at 6:01pm
I don't know if I had been booted from the site or not, but I tried logging in and it wouldn't let me. I just wanted to offer my apologies.
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post #220 of 349
10/4/09 at 6:41pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by moviebuff75 View Post

I don't know if I had been booted from the site or not, but I tried logging in and it wouldn't let me. I just wanted to offer my apologies.

No one would be "booted" from this site for discussing an issue. I just checked, and your account under Eric Scott Richard is open and in good standing. However, we don't allow multiple accounts; so I'm closing this one.

Email me if problems continue: michael@hometheaterforum.com
Edited by Michael Reuben - 10/4/09 at 8:23pm
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post #221 of 349
10/4/09 at 7:12pm
I watched the BD last night.  My set-up is an ISF'd 60" SXRD A3000 and Oppo BDP-83.  I sit about 8-9 feet back in a dark environment. At 1080p/24,  I thought Oz looked fantastic.  The image was very filmlike, soft, yet rich in terms of color production.  I heard comments early that the image looked over-processed, but I didn't think so AT ALL.  There were a couple of scenes where I saw some light edge enhancement (or something that looked like it), but it was hardly worth noting.  Warner did a phenomenal job on this title.  I actually rented the title from Netflix as I was not certain how well it would hold up for me since I hadn't seen it since I was a kid, but I liked it and will eventually buy it.  A true classic indeed.
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post #222 of 349
10/4/09 at 7:40pm

Come back, Eric, no harm done, but let's talk about something larger than a single frame please!

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post #223 of 349
10/4/09 at 9:04pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD View Post

So is everyone going to ignore What Robert Ketler posted.
I'd love to know what Robert Harris thinks about it.
 

I thought it took a really long time getting to its real point: that point being a troll post for the long dead HD DVD format. Some people just can`t let it go. 

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post #224 of 349
10/4/09 at 9:07pm
I noticed that, but didn't want to directly mention it, glad someone did, and I think you're right.
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post #225 of 349
10/4/09 at 10:16pm
Some people live for finding fault in everything they see.  I guess they can feel better about themselves if they think something else or (someone else) is flawed and inferior.  Between this topic and the Gladiator topic, Freud could have a field day!  :)

Mark
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post #226 of 349
10/5/09 at 6:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S View Post

I thought it took a really long time getting to its real point: that point being a troll post for the long dead HD DVD format. Some people just can`t let it go. 
 

And that point wasn't even true.  Sigh...

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post #227 of 349
10/5/09 at 1:58pm
It's great feeling like part of the Oz family. I have met the munchkins several times and have become close to many who had something to do with this film. Jerry Maren and his wife Elizabeth are very kind and generous. All of the Munchkins are very thankful for the recognition that they have received in the past 20 years, and love the chance to travel when they can to meet the fans. We were part of the petition to get them their star on the Walk of Fame. I'm glad they got it.

Like I said, the restoration is beautiful. I guess we will just have to live with any quirks from now on.
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post #228 of 349
10/5/09 at 3:23pm
So this and Gremlins at target went up in price to $39.99 and $24.99
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post #229 of 349
10/5/09 at 3:55pm
I figured that would happen. I am so mad at myself for overlooking the Best Buy Exclusive and picking up the wrong box because the number was smaller! I wanted those cards!
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post #230 of 349
10/5/09 at 6:07pm
I picked up Target's "just the discs" release and watched a few chapters...

WOW.

This basically replicates the look of that beautiful '98 dye-transfer print I saw a few years ago. The Kansas scenes are improved with more film-like sepia toning, the brief instances of color misalignment are gone, and it has a silky and almost metallic look. Remaster of the year, at least until GWTW comes out.

My only two caveats are making the original monaural track an "extra" and in 192kbs Dolby Digital.
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post #231 of 349
10/6/09 at 6:47am
Quote:
My only two caveats are making the original monaural track an "extra" and in 192kbs Dolby Digital.

Okay, it's not lossless, but that's still over double the bitrate per channel that Dolby Digital normally gets. (It actually makes me wonder if that's really 192 KbPS stereo, with the audio duplicated in both of the left/right channels.)
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post #232 of 349
10/6/09 at 6:56am
It is a DD1.0 track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATimson View Post


Okay, it's not lossless, but that's still over double the bitrate per channel that Dolby Digital normally gets. (It actually makes me wonder if that's really 192 KbPS stereo, with the audio duplicated in both of the left/right channels.)
 


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post #233 of 349
10/6/09 at 1:14pm
I need Walmart to quickly build a store near me.

_Man_
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post #234 of 349
10/6/09 at 6:21pm
I've just had my Walmart copy arrive, like Blanche Dubois, by relying on the kindness of Brandon.

I don't think anyone should hesitate in picking this up, despite comments here worrying about grain which was not visible in 1939 through blurring of image... Nah nah nah... Here's the real problem.

My only problem with the blu ray of The Wizard of Oz is how will any other blu ray ever compete with this? I look at all the other discs in my blu shelf, in their cute little blu cases, and I worry... How will they take their new friend? Its like introducing the rarest, most beautiful nugget of gold into a drawer full of graphite. How can I leave them alone together? There has to be some sort of anti-bullying policy established, or this the King of All Blu Rays... Surely will suffer over jealousy for its immensely gorgeous image, achieved through bank-breaking restoration and 8k transfer processes... This is a thing to cherish, but sad, because the degree of attention lavished on it is a mark of how it was expected to be the best-selling classic blu ray of all time... I just hope the powers that be can spare some portion of this attention for films with more modest fan bases.
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post #235 of 349
10/6/09 at 8:40pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Cheshire View Post

I've just had my Walmart copy arrive, like Blanche Dubois, by relying on the kindness of Brandon.

I don't think anyone should hesitate in picking this up, despite comments here worrying about grain which was not visible in 1939 through blurring of image... Nah nah nah... Here's the real problem.

My only problem with the blu ray of The Wizard of Oz is how will any other blu ray ever compete with this? I look at all the other discs in my blu shelf, in their cute little blu cases, and I worry... How will they take their new friend? Its like introducing the rarest, most beautiful nugget of gold into a drawer full of graphite. How can I leave them alone together? There has to be some sort of anti-bullying policy established, or this the King of All Blu Rays... Surely will suffer over jealousy for its immensely gorgeous image, achieved through bank-breaking restoration and 8k transfer processes... This is a thing to cherish, but sad, because the degree of attention lavished on it is a mark of how it was expected to be the best-selling classic blu ray of all time... I just hope the powers that be can spare some portion of this attention for films with more modest fan bases.

LOL.  That was a fun read -- and makes my loins yearn for this "rarest, most beautiful nugget of gold" that much more.    Maybe its glorious manifestation even deserves ... God forbid ... a place in its own ark of the Blu-ray covenant ... and let all be forewarned less ye approach it in unworthy fashion and meet the same demise as those German fellows who hung out w/ Indy and Marion now and then.  

_Man_
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post #236 of 349
10/6/09 at 9:03pm
Yes, I hesitate to say it is the holy grail of blu rays; lest I cause a wave of backlash reactions similar to the gent from the 30's who never knew how young Judy's skin actually looked in the film.
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post #237 of 349
10/6/09 at 11:09pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Scott Richard View Post

It's great feeling like part of the Oz family. I have met the munchkins several times and have become close to many who had something to do with this film. Jerry Maren and his wife Elizabeth are very kind and generous. All of the Munchkins are very thankful for the recognition that they have received in the past 20 years, and love the chance to travel when they can to meet the fans. We were part of the petition to get them their star on the Walk of Fame. I'm glad they got it.

 
That's really great!  It's nice that there's so much support shown for them, and that so many of their memories from the film have been documented. When they're gone, so will all first-hand links to the film and it would be a terrible thing to have not shown them our appreciation while we can.

Jack and Flo Haley were my Godparents, and I spent time at their home in CA when I was a child. Uncle Jack died when I was 8, so unfortunately I didn't get to spend as much time with him as I would have liked. I wish I'd had the foresight then to ask tons of questions about the production of the film. But, who knows how much he would have remembered, anyhow. Performers from that era didn't place as much importance on deleted scenes and other minutiae like they do today. I got to spend a lot more time with Aunt Flo because she outlived him by many years. They were easily two of the kindest, warmest people who have ever lived. 
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post #238 of 349
10/7/09 at 3:59am
Picked up my copy at WM as well...

Just a quick comment. The film looks better to me in blu on my Sony xbr than it looked in the theater a couple of weeks ago. Not sure why...Maybe because in the theater we were sitting rather close and it looked more like video. At home it looks more like film.

Love the movie. Definitely a title to add to your collection if you like musicals, Judy Garland, fantasy, classic Hollywood, etc...
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post #239 of 349
10/10/09 at 9:13pm
Just picked up the ultra collectors edition today together with Sleeping Beauty and Wolverine.  The Wizard Of Oz was the first title that I watched in my Sony BDP-S300.  Now other than being totally disappointed that this ended up being another pan & scan release.  Not sure if I would have passed up on this title or not if I would have kept up on reading about the newer Blu-ray releases or not?  I guess I thought that this title would be released in a wide-screen format.  So when I got it home and realized that WB released this classic in pan & scan it was too late.  Does anyone know if this title was in a wide-screen format on film originally?  And if so why the heck didn't WB give us the wide-screen version of the film?  Now there is a good chance I would have picked up the Bluray eventually because VHS was the last format I had this title on.  So you can imagine what a huge improvement the Bluray is over the old VHS version.

Other than the fact that its a non wide-screen format I found the transfer to be very good and to contain a good amount of picture detail.  I was happy to see that they didn't apply a heavy application of DNR to this title.  The film grain is very natural looking and I am glad they didn't try to get rid of it.  The sound is clean and detailed and sounds very good considering the age of the title.  

Now should we expect more 4:3 (1.33:1) pan & scan version of classics here in the future or should we trust that the studios will use as many wide-screen ration transfers as possible?  I guess I wouldn't be surprised to see Gone With The Wind end up as 4:3 or close to 4:3 once it comes out!  Now hopefully sometime in the next 4-5 years I hope to upgrade to a 1080p projector and would love to see this title on a 100" - 120" screen.   
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post #240 of 349
10/10/09 at 9:19pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moritz View Post

I guess I wouldn't be surprised to see Gone With The Wind end up as 4:3 or close to 4:3 once it comes out!  

 

Neither would I, since that's the film's original aspect ratio.

You should take a look at the responses to your similar post in the Snow White thread.
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

The Wizard of Oz (70th Anniversary Ultimate Collector's Edition) [Blu-ray]
$64.98 at
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Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › Blu-ray › A Few Words About By Robert Harris › A few words about...™ The Wizard of Oz -- in Blu-ray