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post #121 of 349
As for the contents themselves............

I've seen reviews where they list deleted scenes as 14 minutes long!!!

Are there NEW deleted scenes for this release?

14 minutes seems longer than previous releases for the few surviving deleted scenes.

Anybody know?

Gear mentioned in this thread:

The Wizard of Oz (70th Anniversary Ultimate Collector's Edition) [Blu-ray]
post #122 of 349
As far as I know..no. The footage for the deleted scenes has been lost to time.
post #123 of 349


Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRa View Post



Yes, RobertR, I think you were lucky.

I saw the showing in Knoxville at the Regal Westown.  It was the worst looking movie I have seen in a theater.  The Robert Osborne introduction began without sound.  After many yells from the audience the sound came on.  Shouts to "start it over" went unheeded.  The picture was grainy and out of focus.  I won't  attend any of these "events" in the future. 

In spite of all that, there were some positives:  the film was in correct aspect ratio; sound was very good - after there was sound; seeing it with an appreciative audience was good; and the film itself is so good that it overcame the bad - almost.

I would think TCM and Warner Home Video would be appalled by such a poor presentation when they are promoting the Blu-ray release.  After all, when Robert Osborne said "for the first time in high definition" I would expect that to mean something other than what was shown here.

 

I tried to give warning in a previous post I witnessed the travesty known as the POLTERGEIST Fathom event showing It was presented in WS for the opened and closing credits but the film was played about 1:85:1 cropped! and the SOUND was a subpar version of MONO

I don't know why WB's etc would do these events ... for POLTERGEIST I actually e-mailed FATHOM and demanded my money back after dealing with them for 2 months I was sent a check for the price of the 4 tix that were purchased.

I fully believe that if you can't show a film print of the film then DON'T show anything at all.
post #124 of 349
Well, it was just posted that the Walmart version only has one disc.  That might sway some people away from it.
post #125 of 349
Not people who hardly ever watch special features discs, which are usually in SD anyway; and are only paying for the HD restoration on BD.
post #126 of 349
You know, I just listened back to Judy's original "Oh Toto. Don't.." line on the 1997 dvd and I am baffled as to how the audio engineers thought that was a mistake. Listening to the 2005 version she doesn't even say Oh Toto. She says "Oh, To" (and then some garbled audio is heard underneath.) It sounds looped and sloppy. The sad part is that even the mono track has been changed.
post #127 of 349
Are we saying that,despite this issue being highlighted many times on these forums, the new BD still has this audio error? Easy enough to fix I would have thought?
post #128 of 349
Well, if the HD Event at the theatre is any indication, then yes it does. I even wrote Ned Price a snail mail letter a few years back asking that the line be re-instated. The 98 audio changes were only supposed to be for the theatrical release, not a permanent change.
post #129 of 349
That's...baffling.
post #130 of 349
Thread Starter 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Scott Richard View Post

Well, if the HD Event at the theatre is any indication, then yes it does. I even wrote Ned Price a snail mail letter a few years back asking that the line be re-instated. The 98 audio changes were only supposed to be for the theatrical release, not a permanent change.

I'm not clear on this point.  The film is the film.  Unless the studio is re-cutting the film for re-issue, which AFAIK was not the case, dialogue should not be affected.  Even if there was a re-mix from extant stems toward the creation of stereo, the final product would, as a matter of course, be checked word for word against a dialogue continuity from 1939.  I'm wondering if a mag preservation element may have been damaged.  But even in that case there a many prints from the verbiage could have been harvested.

I'm sure that some explanation will come to light.

RAH

post #131 of 349
There is an article online in which the audio engineers state that they made three audio changes to the 1998 theatrical version:

1. The aforementioned edit to Judy's line
2. They added additional chick chirps to the scene with the incubator because they were "missing" for a few frames
3. They moved a musical passage when the three companions are watching the Winkies march because the tempo changed.


According to the article, this was done for the "aesthetic good" of the remastered version and wasn't intended to be a permanent change to the film in the future.
post #132 of 349
 Here is a link to the article:

http://www.seneschal.net/papers/wizrerelease.htm

..and here is an excerpt of the relevant explanations:
Quote:
 

Actually, there were three places where Young changed original editorial “…for the aesthetic greater good.” With the blessing and final approval of Ned Price, of course. The first was in the barnyard scene in reel one where there's a big hole in the chicken effects in between one of Dorothy’s lines. The chickens disappear for about 10 or 12 frames, though the noise floor and ambience are constant. So, Young cut in some chicken walla to smooth what seemed like a mistake.


The second departure from the accepted rendition was during a reel change when Toto is being taken from Dorothy. As she whimpers Toto’s name, there’s a stutter edit where an off camera Garland repeats the first few words of a line, “Oh, To, oh Toto.” The production team went back to the script and found no correspondence. So, the apparent mistake was excised, in the very real sense of the word!


The final change to the original comes in another reel hookup where the protagonists, hiding behind a rock, are watching the “Marching Winkies.” Here, the music meter jumps due to an unfortunately common occurrence. The original score was for an over 2 hour version and test screening convinced the studio to shorten the picture’s running time. So, out went a bunch of footage but without rescoring. Jim says, “I have this image of some suit going to the guy and saying, ‘We gotta loose 20 seconds right here…’ and he says, ‘But that edit will stink!‘ ‘I don't care, we’re loosing that 20 seconds!’ So, I recreated the music for the hookup so that the jump in meter comes underneath some dialog instead of in the clear.”

Looking at the film, the  "Oh Toto" line is not across a reel change, but it does span an edit.  Garland is also not "off camera", although she is turned away enough that the edit does not create an obvious lip synch problem.  To my ears, it sounds like she is saying "Oh, Toto! Toto!" rather than stuttering "Oh, To - Oh, Toto!" 

The line in the March 15,1939 Continuity Script is: "Oh Don't, Uncle Henry.  Oh, Toto!  Don't...", so the edit does match that better.  All in all, I wish they had just left it alone, and they certainly should not have instituted the edit on what is billed as the "restored mono track".

Regards,
post #133 of 349
Agreed, Ken. This is more than just a movie. This is a National Treasure. And by all acounts, WB has gone above and beyond the call of duty to preserve this wonderful piece of Americana for years to come. However, the audio portion is just as important as the visuals and the alterations should be reversed. After all, faithful fans have bought this title multiple times and we shouldn't move ahead two steps, only to fall back one.
post #134 of 349


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Scott Richard View Post

Agreed, Ken. This is more than just a movie. This is a National Treasure. And by all acounts, WB has gone above and beyond the call of duty to preserve this wonderful piece of Americana for years to come. However, the audio portion is just as important as the visuals and the alterations should be reversed. After all, faithful fans have bought this title multiple times and we shouldn't move ahead two steps, only to fall back one.
Yep. but for the record, I am curiously neutral about half a second or less of low level "chick walla". 

post #135 of 349
True. I'm a little more concerned about the fact that on two viewings now (The HD event and the TBSHD showing tonight) that there is either a skip or a registration error when Glinda is leaving Munchkinland in her bubble. The picture jumps...I couldn't tell if frames are
missing or if the color jumped in the frame.
post #136 of 349


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent_P View Post

Regarding the whole bit-rate debate, wouldn't a 1.33:1 title like THE WIZARD OF OZ theoretically require LESS bit-rate since a large portion of the image is taken up by those unmoving and unchanging solid black bars at the sides? 

Vincent

Less than full 16:9 material if the black bars are uniforme black (same digital code and not noisy black). The same goes for material wider than 16:9.
post #137 of 349
I have to say this is a significant upgrade over the DVD. The colors are more accurate AND the increase in resolution over the DVD is VERY noticeable. I'm seeing a HUGE amount of detail I've NEVER seen before. It's a magnificent technical achievement.  Eric, I didn't notice the skip you refer to.
post #138 of 349
Any knee-jerk reaction to the audio, Robert?
post #139 of 349
It sounds great, Mike.  Music and dialogue sound better than ever to me.  What an age we live in.  For all the occasional complaining about bad transfers, I sat there and said to myself "THIS is what it's all about--watching movies at home with a startling resemblance to 35 mm film."  :)
post #140 of 349
Double post
Edited by Mark Booth - 9/29/09 at 5:04pm
post #141 of 349
I picked up the Target version this morning (3-disc set for $34.99). I decided to take a few photos of some of the various screens on the three discs, so that it might help others decide. I shot these with my happy snappy (point & shoot) aimed at my 70" LCoS set. Please excuse the tilt in the images (too lazy to fix) and the glare on my screen (the morning sun really hits the window hard on that side of the house).

Scene Selection on Blu-ray Disc #1:
http://www.thephotobooth.net/photos/665017151_fat42-O.jpg

Special Features on Blu-ray Disc #1:
http://www.thephotobooth.net/photos/665017146_g5afc-O.jpg

Main Menu on Blu-ray Disc #2:
http://www.thephotobooth.net/photos/665017199_Ps3xc-O.jpg

Special Features on Blu-ray Disc #2:
http://www.thephotobooth.net/photos/665017200_K8Mk7-O.jpg

Main Menu on DVD Side #1:
http://www.thephotobooth.net/photos/665017201_vJYGu-O.jpg

Example Scene Selection on DVD Side #1:
http://www.thephotobooth.net/photos/665017233_fnXo6-O.jpg

Main Menu on DVD Side #2:
http://www.thephotobooth.net/photos/665017236_HwHrb-O.jpg

Example Scene Selection on DVD Side #2:
http://www.thephotobooth.net/photos/665017252_LNypL-O.jpg

I think the Target version is da bomb! All of the juicy disc content of the UCE version, but without the monster box and extra swag I have zero interest in.  Plus, the Target version comes in a standard sized Blu-ray snap case.   The UCE version's fold-out case is DVD sized.

Mark
post #142 of 349
Here are three captures from the 1999, 2005 and 2009 SD releases.  

So the question for you all is ... which is which?  In no particular order:

I also gave up on trying to post images.  It's either not working or you need a master's in this piece of junk forum software that I've never seen used elsewhere.  












[Images added by moderator using "Insert/Upload Image" tool on edit bar; paste link where it says "Paste the URL to an external image"]
post #143 of 349
Can you tell us which Blu-Ray content that's on the 4-disc ultimate edition is not included on the 3-disc edition at Target?
post #144 of 349


Quote:
Originally Posted by PianoPlayer View Post

Can you tell us which Blu-Ray content that's on the 4-disc ultimate edition is not included on the 3-disc edition at Target?

None.
post #145 of 349



Quote:
Originally Posted by PianoPlayer View Post

Can you tell us which Blu-Ray content that's on the 4-disc ultimate edition is not included on the 3-disc edition at Target?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

None.

Correct.  The only thing missing on disc #4 is a digital copy of the film. 





post #146 of 349
deleted
post #147 of 349
Thanks guys ... I just picked up the Target edition (they had 5 copies on the shelf) and raced right home to check it out.

I'm sold: This is now the movie I'll pop in when skeptic friends visit and say, "Is Blu-ray really better than DVD?" 

Wow.  Just wow.

post #148 of 349
As marvelous as the film looks and sounds, I'm highly disappointed in the utterly shitty PQ for The Dreamer of Oz, the TV movie starring John Ritter as L. Frank Baum, found on disc 2.  It looks no better than the EP-speed VHS recording I made when it was first broadcast.  Seriously, it's THAT bad, and maybe even worse (I don't have the tape anymore to compare).  On a release of this magnitude... THIS was the best copy they could find?  Christ.

However, the feature itself is phenomenal.  I popped it in, only intending to watch a few minutes to check the PQ, and I ended up watching the entire film.  Absolutely stellar.


post #149 of 349

No one's going to play, for fear of looking like a twit.  And they will, because they will undoubtedly choose the incorrect cap as the Blu-Ray.  Which is interesting, and which is why you will get no takers.  C'mon, you HTF experts, do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich_d View Post

Here are three captures from the 1999, 2005 and 2009 SD releases.  

So the question for you all is ... which is which?  In no particular order:

I also gave up on trying to post images.  It's either not working or you need a master's in this piece of junk forum software that I've never seen used elsewhere.  


http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/355/woz2009.jpg

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8209/woz1999.jpg

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/3384/woz2005.jpg







post #150 of 349
This print has a SKIP in the Munchkinland sequence. I just viewed my copy and it is on there as well. When Glinda's bubble is leaving, the munchkins bid her farewell and there is a jump....I checked all previous copies and there was no film damage there. This is my most beloved film and I have just spent even more money on it....love the overall new look, but please WB fix this for the sake of cinema!
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The Wizard of Oz (70th Anniversary Ultimate Collector's Edition) [Blu-ray]
Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › Blu-ray › A Few Words About By Robert Harris › A few words about...™ The Wizard of Oz -- in Blu-ray