Check out the new forum nav! - Page 2

The most unsettling thing for me about this switch-over to the new forum navigation is the lack of inclusion of a "Home" link among the navigation choices (to take you to your personalized home page)...or the inclusion of the new navigation menu on everyone's home page to be able to jump into the forums.  This lack of simple navigation seems completely illogical to me. 

If I check out my home page first and then want to jump into other forum indices...I HAVE to click a "forums" button and go the main index page of forums--scroll through a long list--and then select the forum I want.  

And, conversely, if I'm in the forums and want to navigate back to my home page--instead of using the navigation system in-place to traverse the forum (either the drop-down menu or new "More Forums" link), I have to scroll, either all-the-way to the very top or the very bottom of the page, in order to find a link marked "home." 

This is not a "but we always did it that way before" post (although that would be true).  It is a "it is a logical step when navigating the forum" post. 

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As for the new menu itself, I am willing to give it a chance.  I took the survey.  My recollection, however, was that it was going to be in "roll over" form and not require a hard-click (to see the visible menu of choices).  My concern then was if the roll-over would be annoying based on the page placement of the menu button. 

I whole-heartedly agree with others that a substantial button placement would be preferable to the current "More forums" text tucked into a string of other options.  This way of navigation (as expressed repeatedly by members) is a HUGE ISSUE when it comes to actual use of the forum.

This doesn't really seem all that different from the drop-down menu.  The idea is the same.  I think, however that, once selected, the menu itself is WAY TOO BIG (for what it's aiming to do) and requires a bit too much scrolling for the task-at-hand.  Again...there is an awful lot of dead space between the "forums" column in the new menu and the "sub-forums" column..creating a wide expanse of emptiness over which one must move their cursor to make their inevitable navigation choice in the sub-forum column. 

I hope those remarks are helpful.  I'm using FF 3.5.2 on XP. 

Personally I like having to click. I hate anything that pops up with a mouse over. It always seems like when I move the mouse out of the way so I can read, it lands on a pop up thus blocking the screen even more. (always)

I second the quick navigation between the forums and home.

I was initially thinking a mouse-over popup would be better, but I think I agree it should be a click. I like the idea of being a button or something visually different. Right now it looks a link to another page, which is what i thought it was when I first saw it.

Please, please, add this to the home page.

There is a lot of wasted space in the popup. The first column should be shrunk to match the length of the largest forum name. Then the overall popup should be shrunk to match.

Overall I do prefer the popup to the combo box, but there is enough space. Perhaps you can put both on the page.

So that's where it went.  Well... I HATE IT! 

I just want to comment on the direction this site it heading.  With all the comments from older members being chastised, the claims that the site is more popular than ever (with those who post 3 times and never return maybe), and the fact that it is now "Pay Pal Integrated" for "Premium Memberships" I believe my days are numbered.  All the change and aggravation is simply not worth it.  While I appreciate that you feel that this is the way to go, I have to wonder who will be left to see all the slick ads that seem to be taking over the main purpose of this site.  This is still Home Theater FORUM, isn't it?

terrible. why fix what was never broken.

Well, I hardly ever used the old dropdown before, and I doubt I'll start using this nav popup either *unless* more features/functionalities are built into it (as I mentioned in the past).

I like to know what I'm about to jump into before I do so, so at minimum, I'd want to know if there are any actual new posts to read in each subforum -- and preferably a bit more than just that, eg. maybe an actual count of new posts and perhaps also a count of new posts to subscribed threads.

Also, again, I'd want a way to mark all posts read w/in the current subforum, which we still do not right now.

Currently, I usually just go back to the main forums page before I hop to another subforum since that's really the only way to know if anything's new in whatever other subforum (and also to mark as read the subforum I just left).

But yeah, even though I don't use it, I agree w/ others that it should be a good deal more prominent and obvious than it is now.  A standard-looking (text) link to bring up a popup is not a good way to go because we're all trained to expect such a link to redirect us elsewhere, not to bring up a popup nav menu.  And in this case, it's also too small and looks too much like the next couple links, which don't behave in similar fashion.  Also agree that useability (once the nav menu is open) could be better.  It hasn't been mentioned so far, but I also think the nav menu should have a higher contrast color scheme w/in itself, probably some variation on the main theme of the site layout.


EDIT: One idea just crossed my mind.  Since it's now just a click-to-popup anyway -- and Huddler is not shy about "hijacking" the right mouse click  -- maybe the popup nav menu can also come up via a right click on the site background, eg. in that blank white space to the right.

Also, perhaps, you may wish to provide tooltips for (new) stuff like this for new (and old) visitors until they become used to it -- perhaps, whatever tooltips can be disabled via user confirmation clicks w/in the tooltips themselves.  For instance, in this case, perhaps, it would make sense to do a mouse-over tooltip for the new nav menu link until the user confirms he/she knows about it -- and if you decide to add my idea of a right-click-on-background popup of the nav menu, you can perhaps include a combination of the info in the same tooltip as well (so people will find out about the other method to get the popup).

Honestly, considering the direction HTF is going w/ this new platform, the old-style FAQ/tutorial/guide hidden away in some out-of-the-way help section is probably a thing of the past anyway -- well, certainly, that's probably not the best way to introduce someone who's new to the format/layout unless he/she is just not familiar w/ general web browsing (and modern personal computing apps in general).  OTOH, I suppose the tooltip could just provide a link to the relevant section of a big FAQ/tutorial/guide on top of a succinct intro help/pointer info.

_Man_
Edited by ManW_TheUncool - 9/11/09 at 6:21pm

Just out of curiosity, what percentage of members voted for this new navigation tool over the old drop-down? Now that it's been implemented I wonder if the numbers would hold up.

Again I'm not just trying to complain here, I'm trying to learn to like it...but I really find it to be a nuisance even when I do remember it.

David-
I'm sorry you feel that way.  I don't think that comments from any members are being chastised as a rule--Like any subject discussed here when there are strong personal opinions involved sometimes things may get a bit heated, but that is the exception not the rule.  If there has been inaccurate information posted we will try to refute it.  We take constructive member feedback seriously.  That feedback has led to a lot of changes, including the change in the menu, and other upcoming changes.  I haven't and am not going to claim that the site "is more popular than ever", but if a someone tells me that traffic is down from where it was right before the change, I have to disagree as I have seen the actual numbers.  Throughout its history the site has been cyclical.  With the exception of CEDIA (check out the coverage Ron and Parker are posting), not much is going on right now in the world of Home Theater or TV. That's why there are a lot more readers than posters.  As to paypal integration that is not something HTF asked for.  Huddler is a platform that multiple sites run.  While I don't trust my Magic 8 Ball to see what the distant future holds a few years from now there has been NO discussions at all about making any type of premium membership here and I don't see that position changing.  While we have had a runaway ad or two there is actually less advertising here that we had before.  I realize the change has caused some aggravations for some users but we have worked very hard over the last two months to minimize that.  Are we where we want to be yet?  No, but we are well on the way and have made a lot of progress.

Home Theater Forum has always been about the community we have here.  Are we rolling out new features and new ways to interact with the site?  Yes!  But the forum is the cornerstone of the site and there is no intent to minimize its role or diminish its importance.  We have some exciting features on the horizon that will actually increase the importance of the forum.  Just about anyone here would say that the site is much better today than it was the day after the change and that is due to feedback and suggestions from the members.  If there are specific things that you want to see changed or be done differently we would love to hear them.  Please post them in our Suggestion Box area.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but it was an overwhelming yes.  The "no preference" and "don't care for it" numbers were pretty even, but even combined were significantly smaller than the "like its".  Would we get the exact numbers today?  Probably not, and I wouldn't expect to because people (including me!) usually resist change.  I think the better question is two weeks or a month from now after people have had a chance to use it and we have a chance to make some minor tweaks to it will the numbers hold up?  I hope so.  For the record I was in the ambivalent category.  Now that its here I actually like it better.  Do I still find myself clicking on the blank space where the drop down used to be?  You bet.  You can't undo almost 10 years of habit in an afternoon . 

I just want to encourage everyone who has specific suggestions that weren't related specifically to the topic of this thread to post them in the suggestion box area.  There were some great ideas proposed by Mike, Bill and Man on this page alone, and unfortunately they tend to get lost in threads like this.  The more of them that we can capture in a central place like the suggestion box the more likely they are to get implemented sooner.  I really appreciate the time and effort you guys are putting in to make HTF a better place.

I've only just seen it...

The functionality per se is reasonable, even good. But I suggest review and revision by someone with experience with human factors / UI design and implementation.

And so I have two suggestions, from a layman's perspective:

Put "this forum" link back after the last post. (After reaching the end of the page, there are no useful navigation tools!)

I urge you to give back the "this forum" link following the last post on each page. The logical flow is to read the page, scrolling down, and then click the "Go" (to this forum) button right there to get to the forum threads. Now, it's made more cumbersome, as the page must be scrolled back to the top to jump to the thread list.

Visually distinguish tools that have different behaviors. Links that are visually similar behave in completely different ways. This is confusing.

The new navigation menu is confusing. The Bread crumbs replace the former "Go" button to jump back to the current sub-forum listing. But the placement on the page varies from forum to forum, so "physical" memory, previously useful with the "Go" button is lost.

The bread crumb links, blue text, are links that go to new pages. I then click "More Forums" link and it gives me a menu. And so I click the "All New Posts" link for some other menu, but it takes me to a new page. So what does small, blue text do? Who knows?

Just occurred to me that while you're at it, maybe it'd be even better to actually provide a simple way to popup another layer in that nav menu to perhaps show either a top 10 list of threads w/ the oldest unread posts or the most recent unread posts (along w/ some relevant basic info).   Perhaps a right click on the subforum to bring up that extra layer showing threads w/ unread posts and a left click to jump to whatever's in focus, whether it's the subforum thread listing page or a chosen thread's earliest unread post.  And there are probably other useful capabilities that could be added along those lines too.

If you offer that much more capabilities *and* make it all very user-friendly, I'm sure the new nav menu will win people over much more readily.

One thing though about my suggestions of using right click for some of this stuff.  I'm not sure whether Mac/Safari users will be negatively impacted by that since the traditional Mac mouse only had 1 button -- not sure if that's changed recently.  Hmmm... I suppose since I'm only suggesting additional new capabilities w/ right click, not moving existing ones to it, that would probably just mean single-button mouse users will simply only miss out on what they never had before.  While that's not idea, it's also not crippling any already existing functionality for them.

OTOH, I suppose there could always be another submenu button to click on to bring up the extra layer w/ thread listing rather than relying on a right click...


BTW, for something better than the current "More Forums" link, perhaps you can go w/ some sort of buttoned icon that looks like a small illustration of a popup menu possibly placed next to the "More Forums" text (similar in style to the function button/links for New Thread, Advanced Reply and Subscribe), if you really want to stick w/ that theme, instead of going w/ something completely different looking.  Also, maybe something a bit more obvious (and more familiar to the avg person) like "Forum Index" or "Forum Directory" would work better than "More Forums" -- or maybe that's just me...

_Man_
Edited by ManW_TheUncool - 9/12/09 at 1:06am

But it should be clearly labeled as to what-it-is...or no one (especially new members) would know.

This is an especially important, prominent device.  it should be set off as such.  This is a discussion forum and people need to be able to cleanly and easily navigate between forums without difficulty (which gets me back to my bugaboo about NOT being able to cleanly navigate back-and-forth between the forums and the Personalized Home Page. 

(also an issue I've commented on previously)

Me too!

I've also noticed that if you click the "More Forums" button when the page hasn't fully loaded it takes you to the forums listing page, which means another delay. This wasn't a problem with the drop-down.

Just want to chime in:

The "More Forums" link is too small and indistinguishable. It should have a giant arrow next to it, or something that would lead an eye immediately to it. Instead, it is lost among SIX OTHER identically-sized tiny links. From a design perspective, it is a massive fail.

But as a secret link that only dedicated members will find, it is a win!

Perhaps, but it's nowhere near as good as it was the day BEFORE the change.

...

Looking for your suggestions now Malcom, and I'm having trouble finding them.....

I do not like the "more Forum" option. It was much quicker with the drop down menu. Adding to the slowness is that the "more Forum" window is too big, one has to scroll the window up or down addintg to the time.

 I haven't been on in about a week and couldn't find the drop-down menu.  The "More Forum" option is miserable and ill-conceived-- I didn't know about it until I came to this thread.  PLEASE bring back the drop-down menu.  Otherwise, switching between forums becomes a massive chore and I become significantly less inclined to visit HTF (and I've been a member for over 10 years!)

Quote:
What's the point? Nothing's been addressed about this Forum Nav issue even though comments/suggestions in this thread seem to be running about 10-1 in the negative. Going back several years, every time the HTF software was upgraded Parker said the forum jump tweak was always the most requested feature and he always worked hard to get it back ASAP. Hard to believe everyone now hates it so much.

Besides, I'm pretty sure I suggested rolling back to the pre-Huddler format when the forum was actually readable, navigable, and nowhere near as cluttered.