Check out the new forum nav! - Page 5

The More Forums has the issue with being partially blocked no matter what browser. I'm just always sad to see people using IE 6 (which is standard where I work, too).

It's been a month-and-a-half, and I still haven't got used to it/hate it. Can we get the dropdown back please?

Anyone? Am I the only one who still finds this navigation system absolutely infuriating?

No, you are not the only one, I just figured it didn't make any difference to complain at this point.

Folks, I will talk to the Huddler team about this.

I have to agree. I can't seem to get around the new forum nearly as easily as I used to. I'm sure there were good reasons for the big change, but I don't think any of them helped me.

Quote:
Thanks Ron.  I've been in the "Not worth the time to complain" bunch for a while now, but please count me in the lot who wants the drop down back still...

This is about "More Forum" Vs "Drop-down". I don't like the name "More Forum". For someone not  familiar with this forum would not understand what "More Forum" does- I would suggest "Forum List", The drop-down menu is clear. It is used in a number of other forums including the previous software for this forum. I have looked at  3 different threads:

"more Forums" started  09/1ß/09
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/292710/check-out-the-new-forum-nav/0
Most of the posts that I mentioned are in the above thread.


"Restore forum Jump"  started  9/12/09
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/292818/restore-forum-jump-nav-menu-after-reply-box

"New Home Page" started  10/21/09
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/294189/new-update-today-site-downtime/0 

Having looked at all the posts there seems to be at least 20-25 people,  that want the drop down back. There were a few (3 or 4)  who preferred the "More Forums". In one of my posts, I stated why I don't like "More Forums".  For me quicker and easier is the drop down. 

There was a poll  mentioned  in posts 42 &44 and it was stated ( without any detail) that "it was an overwhelming yes" for the "More Forums".
 
I asked  various questions but received no answers in my post 117.. In regards to the "poll", I never got one  -  was it before or after you could try it out the"More Forum" option?. How many people were asked? . 

Looking at all the various posts, there were a  number people wanting the drop-down back. As suggested by several people, I think we should have BOTH.    It appears what is good for one is bad for another.

 It was stated in post 61  "We made this change to help reduce the amount of space at the top of the page", however for the life of me, I don't see how ELIMITATING   the drop-down  would create alot of space at the top,

     In Post 112 Mike Frezon asked " "Is there any consideration being given to any of the feedback given above?  It's been kinda quiet lately." and the next day (10/9/09) in post  114  Adam Gregorich stated "  Sorry for the lack of communication, we have been listening and discussing behind the scenes.  Nothing new to report yet...."

 On post 122 (10/27/09) Anthony C asked "It's been a month-and-a-half, and I still haven't got used to it/hate it. Can we get the dropdown back please?"

 I would suggest  that one read all the posts in this thread to get a feel what some people think. Like what  Mike Frezon has said in one of his posts, one should first try to solve the various problem areas  first before adding new bells and whistles.

That's exactly what I mean about the not worth complaining about it Sumnernor...   I agree with everything you have said and there is NO REASON that has been adequately explained why it would not be possible to keep the More Forums that the Huddler team is so enamored with while putting back the dropdown that people who actually USE THE FORUM MULTIPLE TIMES PER DAY EVERY DAY so assuredly want back.  Multiple moderators have chimed in saying they would like that as well.

The only possible explanation is that Huddler thinks they know better than we do and the die has been cast and it's not coming back.  Any energy we expend trying to explain the logic of it all is going to be wasted.  So as Michael R suggested, it's best we all just move on...

Please don't put words in my mouth, Sam.

Here is the situation....

In order for Huddler to bring back the drop-down box it
is going to turn into a major project for them that needs
to encompass not only this site but all Huddler sites.

They are not against doing it.  However, the concern is
whether we are dealing with a feature that the majority
of the members want or we are catering to a few in the
vocal minority.

Huddler is willing to take a poll, but not going to act on
the small handful that are probably going to partake in
it and voice that they want a drop-down menu system.

This isn't a knock against what you guys are asking for.
It's just that we are all trying to get away from spending
time implementing features that a few people are asking
for rather than concentrating on other projects.

So, my question to all of you is, how many people do
you really think are clamoring for the return of the
drop-down navigation menu? 

One of the things that's been weighing on me, Ron--on this particular issue--is ALL the ideas that have been posted since the switchover on the subject of forum navigation. 

For example, there is also a large contingent that has been advocating the addition of a "bread crumbs" line at the bottom of the page (mirroring the top).  It was my understanding that was an idea that was pretty well-received...but has yet to be implemented.

Rather than have these things happen piece-meal, I would think it would be a much better approach to have them planned out. 

I've been contemplating--when I have the time--to go over all the old threads on suggestions regarding forum function (as well as the suggestion box threads) and developing an organized list.  I'd be more than glad to do so.  Just to try to organize and potentially help prioritize some of the issues that have been lingering since the switchover. 

Frankly, I was a little surprised to see the polls function unveiled before some of these navigation issues were addressed.  I expressed that to Parker in one of the polls threads in the testing forum. 

It has seemed to me (and, I would suspect, other members) that all those suggestions and all that feedback has been completely forgotten as the forum simply looks to move forward.  I think there are still a number of viable suggestions pertaining to form & function that could really go a long way towards turning grumbling members into happy campers. 

Mike,

If you would put together a list I will make certain it gets 
fast-tracked by Huddler.  We have been concentrating on
implementing things that members have been asking for.
I would expect to see some of them in the next platform
release.

The reason the POLLS got pushed ahead was due to 
the fact that we told Huddler that come January we would
be doing our yearly BEST OF as voted by the membership.
If the polls function were not in place by then it would be
impossible to do.  Based on that insistence, Huddler went
ahead and spent an entire day coding that function.

Mike, at your leisure, go ahead and look over the past
suggestions and compile a list.  

NO NEED FOR MEMBERS TO SUBMIT NEW IDEAS.

IF THEY ARE DOCUMENTED PREVIOUSLY IN THIS

AREA THEN MIKE WILL LIST THEM.

Thanks!

 

That's what I get for volunteering! 

It's been something I've been meaning/wanting to do.  I'll move it to the top of my HTF "to do" list.  Glad to help out.

Quote:
Not my intention Michael.  In fact now that you mention it, I'm not even 100% sure it was you who actually came out and said "Move along" but A. search is broken here and B. a number of posts in that exchange were deleted so...  Who knows.  I wasn't trying to pick a fight or to get your ire by invoking your name...   Apologies once again if that's how it seemed.


I have no way to quantify it.  All I know is that when I read HTF I go forum to forum and if I see 3 threads in a particular sub forum I want to read, and if I then reply in one of those three threads, it's a PITA for me to go back to that forum from the bottom of a post.  It's not a big thing but its something I do a dozen times or more a day and it aggravates.  Would I put fixing iPhone compatibility ahead of it?  FOR SURE.  Would I put better search ahead of it?  Probably not.  There's other stuff that bugs me too but those are my 3 biggest peeves in using HTF multiple times per day and the order I'd put them in is iPhone > Jump > Search fixes and then add sig pictures and stuff like that down the line...   And obviously this list is personal to me and doesn't reflect your priorities or the stuff that bugs anyone else.  That's why I've just learned to live with it, but it still grates.

And as for it being something that would have to be changed for every Huddler site, well that's pretty incredible.  Again I don't want to pick a fight over the platform decision but it seems to me that that's something that individual sites would want to have some customization control over.  Is there a similar UI discussion at EpicSki?  HTF and ES are still the premier sites for Huddler right?  Is there a better place for us to have this conversation with Huddler then rather than making it a HTF issue?  Pretty interesting seeing the changes listed in their blog BTW...  http://www.huddler.com/blog.html

Sam

Just for information - I don'i undestand - how is this a major project? What does this have to do for all Huddler sites?

It would probably be better for Benjamin to
address this, but it is my understanding that
any changes that gets done is implemented
across the platform for all involved sites --which
makes perfect sense.  We are talking about
one platform consistently being upgraded for
everyone.

Not much I can add to that without comparing Huddler to the competition and that battle is over.  So I'll simply say "OK" and "I think they need to be better about extensibility" and "personally I believe that the downside of having a platform that pushes uniformity over extensibility is that you are left with a very cookie cutter experience"

Sam

I'm sure I'm not on your Christmas card list Benjamin but I assure you my heart's in the right place...  If I didn't care I wouldn't say anything and I've been using bulletin board software since long before there was an internet so I know what I like in a community and I have strong opinions about what works for me.  I admit Huddler has made giant strides in appeasing my original complaints but those three remain as huge downsides for me plus the things that you all consider niceties like sig pictures seem like no-brainers to me... 

The bottom line for me is that the HTF owners trusted you guys with the fate of this board and I tremendously respect their opinions so I will continue to try to give you guys the benefit of the doubt while still reserving my chance to call out things where I think you need to do better =)  And I also know there's good chance on a lot of my opinions that where I side is wrong for the good of the board and I'll do my best to keep that in mind too...

Couldn't have been me, Sam, because I didn't participate in the search discussion. I know you weren't trying to pick a fight, but I prefer being cited for things I've actually said.

I'm still submitting feature and enhancement requests to Huddler, many of which have yet to be implemented. I'm the last person who would tell anyone else to stop doing so.

Well, I have gone ahead and put together a list...RIGHT HERE.

I hope it is helpful. 

At this point, I'm not sure what the thinking is about forum navigation here on the HTF, but I thought I'd make an observation (that's been eatin' at me).

I had decided at the time the new "More Forums" navigation system was rolled out to give it a fair shake--figuring that after using it enough it would become second nature to me.  I didn't want to just say, "No, bring back the drop-down menu because that's what I'm used to!"

I found using the "More Forums" system "okay" after it was tweaked and shrunk down to a reasonable size...but I've decided that it is much more trouble than what it's worth.  Lately, for some reason, I've been having all kinds of trouble navigating within the menu system.  My cursor just keeps sliding into the wrong menu.  Once you select the forum group from the left-hand column, you've got to be pretty accurate when scrolling your mouse horizontally to the right to stay within that group of sub-forums.  It can be, unfortunately, aggravating and time-consuming.

I also continue to have trouble with the "More Forums" menus opening up above and below my monitor view.  This means I have to abandon the menu to scroll the screen view so that I can go back in to the menu and select my destination.

For these reasons I have decided to now strongly advocate for the return of the old tried-and-true drop-down menu.  It was genius in its simplicity.  When it appeared briefly in the HTF 2.0 it was just as efficient.  And I am reminded of how easily it works when I visit other forums.

Maybe with the upcoming reorganization of the Forum Groups...?

I also gave More Forums a fair shake the last two weeks.  I also still absolutely hate the way it works and it is CONSTANTLY in the wrong place on my screen.  Especially on my laptop.  I won't even mention the iPhone angle since we know that's not a priority here....  =)

I certainly agree with the 2 preceeding posts, I have been wondering about this. Without rehashing previous posts. I have always believed  that the implementers Do NOT want the drop down even though it was in the previous software and that many other site use that way for navigation. Months ago the implementers were using a Madison Avenue technique by stating how difficult the drop down was and how easy the "more forum" was, There was also some sort of poll that indicated that the drop down fans were in the minority which I do not believe, As a very experience software programmer, I found many "user friendly" changes were quite easy to do- Implementing the "bread crumbs" putting them also at the bottom of the page should be very easy to implement.

Implementing the "bread crumb" links at the bottom of the page shouldn't be much more than just copy and paste in the code, since the links are already there at the top of the page. Honestly I'd consider this close to a 2 minute change. And adding the links to the main home page isn't much different.

Agreed.  That's why I was recently thoroughly perplexed (and frustrated) w/ the "Madison Ave" approach (to borrow Sumner's words) to handling our feedbacks on such issues .

That's gotta be one of the easiest change they could possibly make (short of stuff like removing the little "beta" label from the HTF site banner not long ago)...

_Man_

I am a Firefox user and the FF bookmark menu is very similar in design to the "More Forums" (I hate that name) menu feature--except it works.

Click on bookmarks (always situated at the top of your screen) and a menu drops down and I seem to be able, with ease, to navigate the various subgroups and select the link I want.  And, of course, there is a bookmark toolbar which grants me quick access to those links I visit every day (like the HTF).  This is not altogether dissimilar from the list of "Favorite Threads" I have been advocating in other places that used to reside on our old home page. 

The bookmarks menu never falls off the screen--even though I have compiled a lengthy list of bookmarks on both my home and work PCs.  The bookmark menu always knows when to adjust to stay fully visible on the screen. 

And I rarely find myself having to back up into the larger sub-groups because I have "misnavigated" due to a temperamental cursor.  This is what has been bugging me most lately about the  "More Forums" navigation.  It is clumsy and doesn't work well at all.

On those infrequent occasions when I visit other forums, I am reminded of the utter simplicity of the drop-down menu.  Drop it down (or up depending on screen position), select your destination and BAM...you're there.  No pressing "go", no collecting $200. 

Mike,

I suspect part of the problem w/ the current nav menu is that it probably behaves noticeably differently across different browser/OS/hardware combos on top of being not exactly the easiest, most efficient way to navigate anyway.

Since I'm aware that you use a rather old PC that's likely a bit challenged by the site's resource requirements, I suspect part of the problem is your PC is not fast enough at handling the nav menu to make it as user-friendly as the Huddler team hoped.  The nav menu is probably using javascript or similar, which is going to be at least an order of magnitude more taxing on your system than your typical dropdown menu (whether on a forum site or in the menu system of a typical Windoze app).

This may not be a significant issue for many things, but for something like a quick, human-interfacing item like a (relatively complicated) pop-up nav menu, it may matter just enough to cause problems like slow enough realtime feedback/response times to cause and/or compound navigational errors that you describe.

Think of it this way.  If you had to drive your car w/ a 1/4-sec delay in various types of feedback/responsiveness, eg. visual (thru the windshield, rearview mirror, etc), car response/reaction, etc., wouldn't you think you'll much more likely to get into an accident?  But a 1/4-sec isn't exactly a big deal for most other things that don't require immediate, realtime feeback/response, eg. 1/4-sec delay for buffering music or video playback for instance.

And the pure speed/performance issue is only just one potential issue.  There could easily be compatibility issues as well since there are so many browser/OS/hardware combos (and all their various versions to boot) in the realworld.

In such cases, I'm regularly reminded of the great principle: KISS.  Just keep it simple, stupid.

_Man_