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help with low quality surround sound dialogue

post #1 of 13
9/9/09 at 5:12pm
Thread Starter 
I'm a bit of a novice and would appreciate any advice on upgrading. I bought most of my components 10 years ago and just upgraded my TV and DVD to a Samsung 1080p HDTV and Samsung Blu-Ray BD-P1600. I only use the receiver for audio since it has no HDMI connections. The audio with dialogue is inconsistent and often sounds very hollow or almost echoes.  When you switch the surround mode off, the audio is improved with more mid and deep tones in the dialogue.  The sound is the worst when in Pro Logic mode, but even most (not all) real surround sound dialogue (whether through my cable box or Blu-Ray) sound better with surround off.

I thought the problem was an old center speaker, so I just replaced it with a Polk CS-2, but the problem persists. Before I start upgrading other components, I want an idea of where the problem is. My novice suspicion is that my receiver is the problem, bit I hate to upgrade if it might be something else. I have tried every conceivable adjustment that my receiver offers, including changing speaker size designations, bass, treble, etc.
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post #2 of 13
9/9/09 at 7:34pm
First, which receiver is it. Second, how is it connected to your BR player and third is have you calibrated the speakers meaning have you set the individual speaker volumes so they are uniform in volume. Many of us have to tweak the center channel to increase the volume of vocals a bit.

Quite often Dolby ProLogic, and DTS Neo:6, will sound a little hollow but Dolby Digital and DTS should be an improvement.

A new receiver would be a huge improvement over most any 10 year old one. New receivers have automatic setup programs that all but eliminate setup problems. But we understand your desire to keep what you have during these hard economic times.
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post #3 of 13
9/10/09 at 5:00am
Thread Starter 
The receiver is JVC RX-6500VBK.  Audio from cable box and Blu-Ray is connected to the receiver via optical since the receiver has no HDMI.

I have manually calibrated the speaker volumes and tried adjusting every available setting. 

I don't mind swapping out the receiver, but I have under $500 to work with to upgrade right now, and if it turns out not to be the receiver, that will leave me with no $$ to fix whatever the problem may be (eg, speakers?).
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post #4 of 13
9/10/09 at 8:24am
What do you mean by this?  Which calibration disc did you use?  Which SPL meter?  If you used your ears and the receiver test tones then you just guessed at the settings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by druben999 View Post

I have manually calibrated the speaker volumes and tried adjusting every available setting. 
 
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post #5 of 13
9/10/09 at 9:08am
Thread Starter 
Like I said, I'm a novice.  I have no calibration disc or SPL meter and have very little knowledge regarding how those are used.  If you have any advice on what to buy or where to learn more about using those tools, I'd appreciate it.
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post #6 of 13
9/10/09 at 11:25am
Video Essentials - http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_0_13?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=video+essentials&sprefix=video+essenti
Radio Shack analog SPL meter (if the Shack doesn't have it, SVS sells it on their site).

The DVD has both audio and video calibration steps with instructions.  I added a tri-pod to hold my meter in the exact same place while I ran through the steps.  This and my subwoofer calibration (using the same SPL meter) made an incredible difference in my sound system.

-Robert
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post #7 of 13
9/10/09 at 2:29pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks, I'll give it a try.
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post #8 of 13
9/10/09 at 5:33pm

There are some dvd's that have a THX speaker setup on them. I believe "Cars" has it. It won't be as good as a true setup disc but it, along with an SPL meter, would be better than just using your ears.

As for a new receiver, the factory refurbished Onkyo-507 for $269 from AccessoriesForLess.com comes with a one year warranty from Onkyo and has all the latest features (Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA, Audeyssey Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume) to get the most from your BR player. The Denon 1610, new for $379 from Vanns.com, would also be a very good, inexpensive choice.

Both places offer a 30 day return policy but shipping is the responsability of the purchaser. But I doubt you would want to return either one  .

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post #9 of 13
9/10/09 at 7:36pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the suggestions Gene.  What do you think of the Pioneer VSX-1019AH-K?

 I'm considering whether I should get a receiver that has video upscaling since my cable and BD player both only have 1 HDMI output and I could run them through the AVR instead of to the TV.  Do I even need the AVR to upscale if my BDP is already cable of upscaling?
Edited by druben999 - 9/10/09 at 9:20pm
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post #10 of 13
9/10/09 at 9:29pm
For the BluRay player running audio thru HDMI allows you to take advantage of the new DolbyTruHD and DTS-Master Audio sound formats that offer a distinct improvement over regular Dolby Digital and DTS. Also, running your sources thru the receiver via HDMI allows you to use the receiver as a switcher so you don't have to change inputs on the tv. You should always use HDMI for both audio and video whenever possible.

For a receiver with real good video processing you'll have to increase the budget quite a bit. The Onkyo 706 and 806 are said t be O.K. but the 876/906 are excellent with video. Don't know much about Denons video processing but haven't heard much on the negative side. But I don't think they are as good as the upper end Onkyo's.

As for the Pioneer 1019, it uses a proprietary auto setup program, MCACC, but I think a receiver with Audyssey Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume would be a better choice for your particular problem. Those only come on most (but not all) current Onkyo's and Denon's.
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post #11 of 13
9/10/09 at 9:58pm
I've always found center channel dialog to be too low or just not clear on a high percent of dvds and now blu-rays.

this has been for as long as i've been using dvd for watching.
I have brought it up in the past but the discussion usually dies quickly.

I use a Denon 3808 a Ps3 and have a complete set of matched Klipsch speakers.
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post #12 of 13
9/12/09 at 10:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD View Post

I've always found center channel dialog to be too low or just not clear on a high percent of dvds and now blu-rays.

this has been for as long as i've been using dvd for watching.
I have brought it up in the past but the discussion usually dies quickly.

Then your system is not calibrated or something else is not set up correctly.  That should NEVER happen unless something is wrong with the mastering, which certainly does not happen on a "high percent" of DVDs.

Just to elaborate a bit, I recall several cases of someone putting their center channel speaker behind the tv.  Result?  Bad dialog.  Trust me, something is wrong and it should be easy to fix. Have you calibrated the speakers with a SPL meter?
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post #13 of 13
9/13/09 at 3:34am
Thread Starter 
Gene - thanks for the suggestions.  I ended up buying the Onkyo 607 from a local store yesterday.  Big difference!  The problem was clearly my receiver.
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