The Fugitive: Season 3 Vol.2 - Page 4

When you've brought up the same idea before, I've explained myself more. Here it is again though, I think it's virtually impossible that Paramount conspired to remove the original score from The Fugitive with the intention of putting it back in a few years so they can sell a few thousand more copies.

The "Outer Limits" library was not licensed until after Alan Armer left as producer in the early part of S4.     My bet is it that the score is something that was CBS Library but was one that wasn't familiar to anyone in the legal department.    They seem to have a better understanding of what was a Twilight Zone score, which is where most of the library music would come from, but I suspect that stuff that might have been composed for a more obscure drama series that more importantly is not well known to even the average TV music buff because it hasn't been released on CD is more apt to get the scissors because they can't decide whether its CBS or Cap in their minds.

It's starting with episode #5 in S4 that the change in library music starts so that's when we have to start crossing our fingers when the release comes out (and since the HD transferring is complete for S4 we know it will come).

I thought the problem with the Capitol Music Library was that there is no clear ownership, so Paramount doesn't know who to license it from.

Wouldn't the rights to The Outer Limits cues be an different situation?  I mean, Dominic Frontiere's music got a CD release.  Paramount could easily find out who owns the rights and start negotiations. 

We think that's what makes the whole Fugitive music circus story frustrating for fans, that there are so many of the Outer Limits ques in the Fugitive and those ques apparently aren't a liscescing issue with other Paramout sets as well as the Outer Limits sets.

The Cap Music Ques are also present in other CBS/P sets, ie, Rawhide, etc.  Those
apparently weren't a problem with any clearance issues either.

The other problem from a TV/DVD collector's perspective, at least for me, is the inconsistancy with the music edits and "Heyes" subs in the Fugitive volume sets.  There doesn't appear to be any rhyme or reason approach to the overall music edits in these sets when comparing the vol releeases.  One vol may have considerably less music sub's than the next release.  Since we don't have the actual story from the studio, we are left to guess the scenarios that they used to edit/change the backscores.   

Bottom line, to me, is it's all been a strange story with these Fugitive music problems that has been surrounded with secrecy, imo.....like something from the "X Files".....

My concern with Season Four is that CBS will opt not to negotiate with MGM to use music from "The Outer Limits." When you consider the problems with the 1960s "Batman" series getting hung up because of rights disputes apparently between Fox and Warner, it is easy to imagine CBS not wanting to pay MGM for the rights to use "Outer Limits" music.

And if that is what happens, then CBS really should start thinking of a new ad campaign that does not mention anything about pedestals. It would be a true crime if CBS uses Heyes music to replace "Outer Limits" cues simply because CBS doesn't want to show MGM the money. But considering how CBS has treated fans of "The Fugitive" thus far, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the company takes the cheap Heyes route to make the ruination of the greatest television series of the 1960s - if not of all time - complete.

According to the La-La Land Records sound track release, the music was "used under license from Dominic Frontiere", not MGM, which sounds promising.

Well that certainly does sound promising, Tim.

Dominic Frontiere was a part owner of Daystar Productions (the company that produced The Outer Limits and Stoney Burke) so it makes sense that he would've retained the copyright to that music when Daystar was dissolved.

Not that it makes much difference with regard to music replacement whether it was Frontiere or UA who supplied the stock cues -- it's all about whether QM left behind enough documentation for the CBS "experts" to figure out what came from where.  If they couldn't separate the Capitol cues from everything else, I don't have much faith that they'll be able to recognize the Outer Limits cues.  But, who knows.

All the people at CBS need to do for starters is read this summary from the David Janssen website.

http://www.davidjanssen.net/FugitiveMusic.htm

Yeah, they should read it. Probably some more letters need to be sent to CBS, too.

And yet OL music appears on "The Invaders" which evidently CBS greenlighted.  And not just in the "Beachead" pilot, which is peppered with many recycled OL cues.  A Frontiere penned cue which appears in the teaser for "The Zanti Misfits" (which I believe may be the "Point of Honor" cue from "Stoney Burke") appears throughout many S1 "Invaders" episodes.  It's the cue heard immediately in the "Zanti" teaser when Bruce Dern is denied entry onto the military grounds by a gate guard.

After checking out that page on the David Janssen website and noticing the high use of "Outer Limits" cues, along with "Twilight Zone" music, in Season Four, and considering the fact that CBS did not pull the OL cues from "The Invaders," maybe none of the music will be replaced in Season Four?

It will still be a case of "too little, too late" for me regardless of what happens with Season Four. It seems to me, however, that CBS is determined to use Mark Heyes music at all costs considering the willy nilly fashion is was needlessly inserted throughout Season Two and Season Three. Who would have ever thought that the exclamation point to "The Fugitive" legacy would include needless replacement of its music? What a lousy curtain call. CBS should place an asterick by its "pedestal" claim.

* Except in the case of "The Fugitive," which we placed on a toilet lid.

And watching the OL episode "Form Of Things Unknown" the "Invaders" theme actually comes from that episode and thus *every* Invaders episode always had something originally done for OL.    Though it should be noted that Frontiere was always receiving a credit on every Invaders episode which was never the case when his OL work was recycled on Fugitive.

Back to Season 3, Vol 2...

Isn't David Janssen excellent and isn't "The Chinese Sunset" episode a nice, light, very enjoyable episode?  It isn't the best episode of the season or anything, but it is a nice change of pace for this excellent series.  The only other episode I can think of that had some light, ironic type comedic touches in it is "Angels Travel On Lonely Roads."  What do you think?

Steve Lecher

I have not seen "The Chinese Sunset," but I really enjoyed the two-part "Angels Travel on Lonely Roads." That was one of my favorites mostly because of it comedic, ironic touches, so I am sure I will enjoy "The Chinese Sunset."

Because of the music issues, I have not purchased this set.  Like Season 2, Volume 2, there's too much changed music and I wash my hands of this debacle.  I would buy the set if I didn't own the whole set on VHS tapes and I am exploring alternate ways to get decent quality, original music DVD's.

What I'm saying is, if you haven't seen the episodes at all, I would say buy the set so you can enjoy episodes like THE CHINESE SUNSET.  I would not be able to stand not owning the set if there were episodes I haven't seen.  Since I own them in inferior video quality but with great music, that is OK for now.

jquirk, are you from Minnesota?  I worked a number of years with a Jim Quirk.  Let me know.  Thanks....

Steve Lecher

Hey Steve, it must have been a different Jim Quirk. I am from Pennsylvania. I did live in Iowa and Hawaii for a while, but not Minnesota. I did visit Minneapolis, however, about five or six years ago I think, but that was only for a weekend.

As for S3V2 episodes like "The Chinese Sunset," I will probably watch it if my brother buys the set. It would be nice if some video sound expert were able to get his hands on some original film prints of the series, copy the sound, and combine it with the restored video prints released by CBS on DVD. I am certain that some folks out there have privately done this, but they more than likely had to use sound lifted off of the VHS releases and recordings of the show off of A&E. Even if somebody was able to restore the sound, however, they would not be able to distribute the new versions because of legal concerns.

Same here.  And I also will not be surprised to see Heyes intermixed with Frontiere.

I will only Netflix these sets from S2V2 onwards because of the immense frustration I've endured over this debacle.  What a waste--and for my favorite series of all time.

Since S3 V2 was released in December, I suspect an announcement on S4 V1 will be made within the next month or so--I'd hate to see the series stopped with one season (two releases) to go!

S4 has already been remastered (we learned that from the CBS Syndie bible before it disappeared from the web) so it's only a matter of time.

I was watching the season 3 episode Crack in a Crystal Ball last night, and it was an okay episode. But I was struck by the ending sequence when Kimble gets to the park. I found it exceptionally well done. We see the crowd just as he does and we can clearly see the undercover cops. He has to remain cool and not run, and this is handled very well.

Just a random reference to one of the best sequences in the series.

Quote:
It's odd that you should mention that particular portion of "Crack In A Crystal Ball". That episode is a favorite of mine too, but someone else recently pointed out something to me (while replying to my review at Amazon.com) that I hadn't really thought much about before (for some reason): That scene is totally unrealistic from the "police" point-of-view.

I.E. -- Are we really supposed to believe that 6 or so plainclothes cops don't have the slightest idea what Dr. Kimble looks like when he walks right into Larry Blyden's "Lincoln Park" trap?! Or are we supposed to believe that all of those cops just simply didn't notice Kimble walking into the park (even though they were obviously LOOKING for him to show up there at the time)?!

As I said, I hadn't ever thought about it from that POV before, but it really doesn't make any logical sense that Kimble was able to just casually stroll out of the park, without so much as a single cop bothering to grab him--even though those policemen were there SPECIFICALLY WAITING FOR KIMBLE TO SHOW UP!

Anyway, I still love that episode....regardless of that huge logic gap at the end.

http://The--Fugitive.blogspot.com

Edited by David Von Pein - 3/13/10 at 12:54am

Although I enjoy "Crack in a Crystal Ball" as well, here's another big logic gap for you:  the Larry Blyden character was perfectly willing to let his wife go off, alone, with someone he believed was a murderer.

For those who might be interested:

The Fugitive soundtrack by Pete Rugolo is now available in mp3 format for just $8.99 on Amazon ($9.99 on iTunes).
Click here for info & 24 music-track samples:
http://is.gd/aEnv6

Cheers, Joyce

Hmmm... I hadn't thought of that either. It seemed to me that the police waiting for Kimble were waiting for him to approach the souvenirs vendor. When he didn't, it seemed they were anxious, but sitting on their hands because their info said the man in question would be at the vendor stand. I also thought one cop got suspicious and knocked on the phone booth to move Kimble along. But as fate would have it, the woman in the next booth left, so he had to enter that booth or else give himself away, and that allowed Kimble to run.

But you're right: Unless police procedure has dramatically changed in the intervening years, each of those men would have been given a description, if not a photo, of Kimble.

I just finished screening this set last night and thoroughly enjoyed the great ending on "Coraline" (which was craftily foreshadowed - the diving helmet sitcheroo).

From someone who's not a musicologist, or didn't vividly remember all the original cues for this show, whatever substitutions there were did not significantly inhibit my enjoyment of this season. I was occasionally aware of a glaring or synth-created cue, but my particular focus was always more on the stories (and the picture quality). Course, I'm saying this as someone who, if they switched out Dominic Frontiere's music on "The Outer Limits" would have been livid with rage, so I completely understand those who grew up with the original scores on this not being on board with the changes. But for a casual viewer on this, I totally enjoyed this set. And I look forward to the Season 4 and hearing some of my favorite OL cues, (if they are present) as mentioned on this thread.

That's good to hear (literally) since I am in a similar situation (having not seen a single episode before purchasing). I own season 1 and have the replacement set for season 2 part 1, but have not purchased and more. I just haven't fit the Fugitive into my watching rotation yet, so I have no clue as to whether the music replacements will affect me or not.

Unfortunately, you have to get to season 2 before you can really find out. As a result, I am in a holding pattern as for any Fugitive purchases going forward. I guess I just need to get it into the rotation so I can answer this question once and for all.

Oh how I wish I had several seasons' worth of "new" FUGITIVE episodes to look forward to...

As it is, there are only a handful left that I haven't seen in years, so I'm afraid that's the best I can do.  As much as I hate the idea that the music has been tampered with, I'm one of the lucky ones who can live with them not replacing the Rugolo portions.  To me, THAT was the musical soul of the series.  The TWILGHT ZONE and OUTER LIMITS cues are also quite welcome when they appear.  

The stuff that they're pumping in the substitute music isn't great, but it doe sthe job I suppose.  If they'd just keep the volume down on it, it wouldn't be so intrusive.  Still, I'm finding it easier than I thought to ignore it when it rears its ugly head.

I've been spending some recent days digging out some Season 4 episodes on videotapes I made years ago, dubbing them to DVD and deleting the commercial breaks.  If the color balance wasn't so faded and yucky, they'd almost be passable.  One oddity really jumped out at me in one of the later Season 4 episodes, "Walls Of Night".  The "Act III" break starts with NO music under (except for some low-volume source music playing in an apartment).  That's got to be one of the few times that happens in the series.

Harry 

I got into classic TV buying and watching about two years ago (with emphasis on that I am buying much faster then I can watch). So I have a whole lot to look forward to for many years to come.

Having been born in '61 I have seen many classic shows when originally aired, as well as in syndication. But I never realized until recently how many good shows there were that I am only now getting a chance to experience for the first time. And not to forget that many shows from my youth can take on a whole new perspective when now watching as an adult.

"Crack In A Crystal Ball" is an excellent episode.  I especially like that the woman double crossing Kimble didn't soften up and save him.  Yes, the ending is a little unrealistic because Kimble was so close to the plainclothes police, but they could have fixed that by having him make his call another 100 yards farther away or so.  However, there are lots of unrealistic escapes on the show.  Do you think Kimble could really have just run out of that basketball arena in "Running Scared," and the exits wouldn't have been covered?  Sometimes it was a little too easy, but it's a TV show, and a damn fine one.

Steve Lecher