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NFL 2009 Regular Season Discussion Thread - Page 2

post #31 of 546
9/10/09 at 3:03pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem View Post




Coryell really was an offensive-minded coach.  I did like that aspect of his approach, because at times it was really fun to watch.  (It kind of reminds me of SDSU and the way they use to air it out a few years ago.)  But I realize that defense most often wins championships.

Tobin Rote is a new name to me.  (BTW, did you ever hear or see Chris Berman's discussion of the older/throwback uniforms for the Chargers?  I think it was during last year's NFL season that he was discussing them.  He was thinking that San Diego would be a lot more successful if they reverted back to the older uniforms -- LOL.)
Coryell was very offensive minded.  The tragedy is that had he fielded an average defense, he would have created a dominent team.  I'll bet with an average defense, he would have won a couple SB's.

When you say SDSU are you referring to San Diego State University?  Coryell coached there before the pros.  Tobin Rote was a former NFL QB who squeezed out a couple more years with the Chargers.  I've heard Berman wax rhapsodic about the "powder blue's" that the Chargers wear from time to time.  Didn't catch him talking about any retro uniforms.

I just looked up Tobin on wikipedia.  He played for Green Bay, Detroit, the CFL, and then the Chargers.  He is the only QB to guide teams to championships in both the NFL (Detroit) and the AFL (San Diego).  I did not realize he was a running QB, since those days were gone, when he was a Charger.

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post #32 of 546
9/10/09 at 8:19pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Angell View Post



Coryell was very offensive minded.  The tragedy is that had he fielded an average defense, he would have created a dominent team.  I'll bet with an average defense, he would have won a couple SB's.

When you say SDSU are you referring to San Diego State University?  Coryell coached there before the pros.  Tobin Rote was a former NFL QB who squeezed out a couple more years with the Chargers.  I've heard Berman wax rhapsodic about the "powder blue's" that the Chargers wear from time to time.  Didn't catch him talking about any retro uniforms.

I just looked up Tobin on wikipedia.  He played for Green Bay, Detroit, the CFL, and then the Chargers.  He is the only QB to guide teams to championships in both the NFL (Detroit) and the AFL (San Diego).  I did not realize he was a running QB, since those days were gone, when he was a Charger.

 

Johnny,

Yes, SDSU = San Diego State Univeristy.  I didn't know that Coryell had coached there.  I do recall a few exciting (offensive explosions) games played there over the past ten or so years.  Some that come to mind are (I think) between SDSU and Brigham Young, as well as Air Force.

I agree about Coryell had he had a decent defense.  It just didn't seem to be something he (or his coordinators) focused on all that much.  I don't recall who the defensive coordinator was at the time, but whenever I thought of the Chargers, I thought one word: offense.

Still, the Chargers (and the Dolphins) gave me a memory I will cherish for many years to come. :)
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post #33 of 546
9/11/09 at 7:13am
What a fun game last night.  I love defensive battles.  And as some have already said in this thread, this game truly was a toss-up, and could have gone either way.  Does anyone know what the spread was?  I haven't looked it up, but I would not be surprised if it was 3 or 3.5 in favor of Pittsburgh.

That's a shame about Polamalu.  It didn't look pretty on the replay.  I hope he makes a speedy recovery (six weeks or so at worst).
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post #34 of 546
9/12/09 at 7:09am
Thread Starter 
I think Pittsburgh was a +6 favorite, but I'm not certain.

The Madden Cover Curse is alive and well. Polamalu shared the cover with Fitzgerald this year. Fitz is doomed.

Here is the history of the past cover boys.

2000 Barry Sanders. Sanders didn't play a single down during the 1999-2000 season (or ever again).

2001 Eddie George. George enjoyed his best season ever (in terms of yards gained rushing and touchdowns scored) in 2000, he bobbled a pass (that was subsequently intercepted and returned for a touchdown) in the Titans' season-ending Divisional Playoff loss to the Baltimore Ravens, and the following season, hampered by injuries, he saw his rushing average sink to an all-time low.

2002 Daunte Culpepper. Culpepper suffered a knee injury and missed the last five games of the year (while Minnesota finished the season a dismal 5-11).

2003 Marshall Faulk. Faulk was plagued by an injured ankle during the 2002 season, his yards gained rushing total dropped under the 1,000 mark (after four straight seasons of 1300+ yards), and the Rams missed the playoffs with a disappointing 7-9 record.

2004 Michael Vick. Vick suffered a fractured right fibula in a pre-season game one day after Madden NFL 2004 hit store shelves; he played in only five games that year as the Falcons sank to a lowly 5-11 record.

2005 Ray Lewis. Lewis failed (for the only time in his NFL career) to record even a single interception and sat out the final game of the season with an injury as the Ravens just missed qualifying for the playoffs at 9-7, and in 2005 he suffered a torn right hamstring in Baltimore's sixth game and missed the rest of the season as the Ravens dropped to 6-10.

2006 Donovan McNabb. McNabb suffered a sports hernia in the first game of the 2005 season. He played on for another eight games despite the painful injury, but after being re-injured in a contest against the Dallas Cowboys, he finally opted for surgery and missed the final seven games of the season as the Eagles finished last in the NFC East.

2007 Shaun Alexander. Alexander broke his left foot in a game against the New York Giants and missed his team's next six games. The Seahawks made the playoffs but lost to the Chicago Bears in the second (divisional) round.

2008 Vince Young. Young hurt the quadriceps in his right leg during the Titans' fifth game of the 2007 season and didn't participate in Tennessee's game against the Houston Texans the following week, marking the first time in his career (including middle school, high school, college, and the NFL) that an injury kept him from playing

2009 Brett Favre. It looked to be a safe pick, since Brett was retired. However, he returned after the cover decision was made, and ended up playing the 2nd half of the season with a torn bicep muscle, as the Jets limped their way through the last four games and missed the playoffs.
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post #35 of 546
9/13/09 at 1:15pm
I imagine Bengals  fans are all on suicide watch
 nuts!!!!!!!!!!!
 never seen an ending in the NFL like that!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #36 of 546
9/13/09 at 1:59pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by James L White View Post

I imagine Bengals  fans are all on suicide watch
 nuts!!!!!!!!!!!
 never seen an ending in the NFL like that!!!!!!!!!!!!
If that happened in a playoff game, then you *might* see some Bengals fans on suicide watch. Regular season? We're used to it. How will we lose next week? Ooh, the suspense!!! 

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post #37 of 546
9/13/09 at 3:48pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasC View Post



If that happened in a playoff game, then you *might* see some Bengals fans on suicide watch. Regular season? We're used to it. How will we lose next week? Ooh, the suspense!!! 


 

Playoff game
do Bengal fans even know what that is? ;)
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post #38 of 546
9/13/09 at 6:05pm
The good news is that the Lions offense is better, the bad news is the Lions defense is still terrible. It's about what I expected.

The Bengals, Browns and Lions all lost today. I think it'll be another tortuous fall for me. :(
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post #39 of 546
9/13/09 at 7:49pm

There were a few interesting games today.  I was surprised the most, I think, by the Jets win against the Texans.  Don't the Jets know that Favre left? ;)

Only one shutout thus far, I think.  It looks as though the Colts and Jags played a game similar to the Steelers - Titans.  I was pulling for the Jags in that one.

The Giants were good enough to win today, and the Eagles dominated.  I wonder just how hungry Philadelphia is -- they've come oh, so close in recent years.

The Dolphins lost to the Falcons, and next week they get the Colts in Miami on Monday night.  Hmmm.

The Packers - Bears game isn't so much a defensive battle as it appears to be a comedy of errors.  Cutler and Rodgers aren't this bad, right? ;)

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post #40 of 546
9/14/09 at 5:12am
Thread Starter 
The games that were on in the metro Detroit area were not very entertaining. I had the Lions comedy on while sitting on our deck, and that game went as I expected. The Saints did anything they wanted offensively, and the rookie Stafford struggled at times in his first game at QB. The Giants - Redskins game was torture to watch, so I shut it off at halftime. I also only made it to halftime of the Packers - Bears game.

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post #41 of 546
9/14/09 at 6:44am
The Eagles won handily, but I worry about McNabb's injury. And I look forward to going to next week's Eagles game, the home opener.

TO makes his Bills debut tonight. He'll be back to his antics quickly when his team gets buried by the Patriots.
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post #42 of 546
9/14/09 at 7:45am
Dolphins looked pretty terrible against the Falcons.  Guess the pats will have absolutely no competition for their division.
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post #43 of 546
9/14/09 at 9:51am
^^^

Maybe the Jets? ;)

I just read about Urlacher's season-ending surgery.  Man oh man....

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=4472175
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post #44 of 546
9/14/09 at 10:38am
I wonder why they couldn't cast it?  Maybe I don't know enough about this type of injury and that's not possible.
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post #45 of 546
9/14/09 at 11:22am
Thread Starter 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem View Post

^^^

Maybe the Jets? ;)

I just read about Urlacher's season-ending surgery.  Man oh man....

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=4472175

The Jets defense certainly looked good yesterday. Could they mirror what Baltimore did last year -- a solid defense protecting a rookie QB and getting the team to the playoffs?

Losing Urlacher really hurts -- he was the leader of that defense. If Chicago's offense is really as mediocre as they looked last night, it will be just a two team race in the NFC North.

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post #46 of 546
9/14/09 at 12:21pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by James L White View Post

I imagine Bengals  fans are all on suicide watch
 nuts!!!!!!!!!!!
 never seen an ending in the NFL like that!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's two seasons in a row the Broncos have received an early season Xmas gift.  Sheesh!

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post #47 of 546
9/14/09 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Angell View Post



That's two seasons in a row the Broncos have received an early season Xmas gift.  Sheesh!

 

That, and watching Cutler fall flat on his face.
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post #48 of 546
9/14/09 at 8:37pm
That was some comeback by the Patriots.  Why on earth McKelvin ran the ball out, I'll never know.  I was thinking that he would down it, and with three timeouts, the Pats might be able to get the ball one last time with around thirty or so seconds to play.

I loved the older uniforms on both the Bills and Patriots tonight.  That was a treat, and it's much appreciated from this AFL/NFL football fan. :)
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post #49 of 546
9/15/09 at 4:37am
Thread Starter 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem View Post

That was some comeback by the Patriots.  Why on earth McKelvin ran the ball out, I'll never know.  I was thinking that he would down it, and with three timeouts, the Pats might be able to get the ball one last time with around thirty or so seconds to play.

I loved the older uniforms on both the Bills and Patriots tonight.  That was a treat, and it's much appreciated from this AFL/NFL football fan. :)

The Bills really gave that game away at the end. I agree that McKelvin screwed up by not downing the kickoff. Buffalo could have ran down a little and made the Pats use up two time outs. He at least should have went down quickly once he hit the 20 yard line and had got the game clock to under two minutes (eliminating the two minute warning timeout).

Brady looked a little rusty early in the game, but seemed to get in a groove in the 2nd half. The Pats offense is going to move the ball this year. The only question is whether the offensive line can keep Brady protected.

Johnny must have been nervous in the 2nd game. The Chargers almost let the Raiders steal a win.

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post #50 of 546
9/15/09 at 5:52am
I'm still stunned at how Peterson just made the Browns look like they were high schoolers.  It's not that you rack up the yards, it's how you rack them up.  There were plays there where he just looked like an NFL player on the field with High Schoolers.  He flicked Wright off him like he was nothing.

Yeesh.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d81291f3d/WK-1-Can-t-Miss-All-day-Peterson

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post #51 of 546
9/15/09 at 6:06am
I ddin't mean to watch both Monday night games, but I did get to see some big plays from both games, and that Pats-Bills game was a big head-scratcher at the end, but give the Pats credit for making things happen, and escape with an improbable win. 

The Raiders didn't look hapless, and gave the Chargers some competition.  Is this the year the wheels fall off for LT? 

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post #52 of 546
9/15/09 at 7:23am
"The only question is whether the offensive line can keep Brady protected."

Scott,

That is a concern.  But for me, a greater concern is the Patriots' defense, especially in the secondary.  (Any chance Palomalu would come to New England? ;) )  I don't know many of the new guys, and remain unconvinced that they have a solid, let alone a first-rate, defense.  They were fourth (I think -- it may have been third) in defense during their 16-0 regular season two years ago.  Now if they had a defense like Pittsburgh and maybe one or two other teams....
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post #53 of 546
9/15/09 at 9:32am


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Merryfield View Post




The Bills really gave that game away at the end. I agree that McKelvin screwed up by not downing the kickoff. Buffalo could have ran down a little and made the Pats use up two time outs. He at least should have went down quickly once he hit the 20 yard line and had got the game clock to under two minutes (eliminating the two minute warning timeout).

Brady looked a little rusty early in the game, but seemed to get in a groove in the 2nd half. The Pats offense is going to move the ball this year. The only question is whether the offensive line can keep Brady protected.

Johnny must have been nervous in the 2nd game. The Chargers almost let the Raiders steal a win.
 

I was at the Pats game last night and let me tell you, walking out of the stadium just about everyone was smiling from ear to ear.  At the same time I heard a LOT of people saying the Pats stole the game, which is certainly the case.  What the hell was McKelvin thinking taking the kickoff out?  It was an awesome comeback but Buffalo deserved that game.

I'm not as concerned about the o-line as I am about the defense.  They're not going anywhere if they can't make 3rd down stops.  I know they did a good job of containing the Bills receivers but it seemed like whenever the Bills need to convert they were able to.  Having Mayo out only makes a bad situation worse.

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post #54 of 546
9/15/09 at 9:35am
Thread Starter 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem View Post

"The only question is whether the offensive line can keep Brady protected."

Scott,

That is a concern.  But for me, a greater concern is the Patriots' defense, especially in the secondary.  (Any chance Palomalu would come to New England? ;) )  I don't know many of the new guys, and remain unconvinced that they have a solid, let alone a first-rate, defense.  They were fourth (I think -- it may have been third) in defense during their 16-0 regular season two years ago.  Now if they had a defense like Pittsburgh and maybe one or two other teams....

Yes, the Pats' defense looked shaky. They lost a lot of experience in the offseason, and losing Mayo to injury yesterday certainly didn't help the situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun View Post

I ddin't mean to watch both Monday night games, but I did get to see some big plays from both games, and that Pats-Bills game was a big head-scratcher at the end, but give the Pats credit for making things happen, and escape with an improbable win. 

The Raiders didn't look hapless, and gave the Chargers some competition.  Is this the year the wheels fall off for LT? 
 

The injuries certainly seem to be piling up for LT. He's reaching that dreaded age where a running back's production usually falls off a cliff. It's something to be concerned about in San Diego. Sproles is an exciting back, but I do not know if he is capable of carrying a full-time load at the position.
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post #55 of 546
9/15/09 at 10:48am


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_C View Post

I was at the Pats game last night and let me tell you, walking out of the stadium just about everyone was smiling from ear to ear.  At the same time I heard a LOT of people saying the Pats stole the game, which is certainly the case.  What the hell was McKelvin thinking taking the kickoff out?  It was an awesome comeback but Buffalo deserved that game.

I agree. I'm a Pats fan, but they didn't deserve to win that game. Fortunately for them, the Bills apparently wanted to win even less than the Pats.

And I'm still scratching my head about the non-touchdown touchdown that was overturned in the Raiders-Chargers game. I always thought you only had to catch and control the ball long enough to get two feet down in the end zone. Lots of guys drop the ball immediately after the catch, or drop it just as they cross the goal line. Are those no longer touchdowns, either? How many seconds does one have to hold it while in the end zone?
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post #56 of 546
9/15/09 at 11:10am


Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm R View Post




I agree. I'm a Pats fan, but they didn't deserve to win that game. Fortunately for them, the Bills apparently wanted to win even less than the Pats.

And I'm still scratching my head about the non-touchdown touchdown that was overturned in the Raiders-Chargers game. I always thought you only had to catch and control the ball long enough to get two feet down in the end zone. Lots of guys drop the ball immediately after the catch, or drop it just as they cross the goal line. Are those no longer touchdowns, either? How many seconds does one have to hold it while in the end zone?
As for the Pats, how many times do you see them lose because they do something stupid?  I don't think there's another team in football that is more mentally prepared to play.  They can take table scraps and turn a loss into victory.  How many teams would have tried an on sides kick there at the end, even though it's such a low percentage play.  Not the Pats, they kick it away and the Bills don't have the brains to hold on to the ball.  Perhaps the Pats didn't deserve to win, but neither did the Bills.  Why wouldn't a coach tell the kick returner to take a knee if the ball gets into the endzone?  And why wouldn't he also tell him to make sure he protects the ball?  I've got a hunch that neither message was delivered.

As for that call reversing the TD, the telecast replayed the actual replay the officials said they used to reverse the call.  It shows that as the receiver goes to the ground, the first part of the ball to touch the ground was the nose of the ball.  It's my understanding that in the field of play that even when a receiver firmly catches the ball and immediately goes down without making a football move (i.e. steps) he's got to maintain control when he hits the ground.  The nose of the ball hit the ground first and it moved around in his grasp.  I think they got the call right, but then I wouldn't qualify as an unbiased observer

As for my Chargers, I don't recall such a discouraging win.  Instead of a rejuvenated LT, it's the same old thing and he even gets hurt.  It's the same old pass rush (non-existent).  If games were won with stats, the Raiders were probably the winner.  Even with a mediocre QB, they moved the ball so easily against the Bolts.  If the Raiders had even a veteran, retread QB in there, they win the game.

I'm not coming down on LT, just coming around to the fact that the greatest Charger ever has probably seen his best days and the drop off in his production has declined and I'm worried it's headed for a cliff.  You will never find me booing him, just shaking my head and wishing for his glory days to return.

The Chargers are notorious slow starters under Turner and it would not surprise me to see them lose at home to Baltimore next week.  It would not surprise me to see them as underdogs.  As the week goes one we'll find out more about the injuries.  It was an expensive win.

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post #57 of 546
9/15/09 at 11:35am


Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Angell View Post



As for the Pats, how many times do you see them lose because they do something stupid?  I don't think there's another team in football that is more mentally prepared to play.  They can take table scraps and turn a loss into victory.  How many teams would have tried an on sides kick there at the end, even though it's such a low percentage play.  Not the Pats, they kick it away and the Bills don't have the brains to hold on to the ball.  Perhaps the Pats didn't deserve to win, but neither did the Bills.  Why wouldn't a coach tell the kick returner to take a knee if the ball gets into the endzone?  And why wouldn't he also tell him to make sure he protects the ball?  I've got a hunch that neither message was delivered.

 

Johnny,

First, congratulations on the road win last night.  I really believed that the Raiders were going to take the game after that semi-bomb for a touchdown with minutes to play by Oakland.  But give Rivers credit -- his nine-play drive was very, very impressive in the closing minutes.

You're right about the Patriots decision to kick it away.  And what's even more compelling to me is that Brady marched down the field, and although he was picking up first down after first down, he continued to milk the clock.  I believe he knew that the Patriots would score.  And truth be told, after the fumble by McKelvin, I immediately thought the Patriots had the game won as well.

I've believe you're right about certain messages not having been delivered.  On the radio last night, the post-game announcers were laying the blame on two parties: 1) whomever was responsible to tell McKelvin not to run it out; and 2) the defensive coordinator for playing the "Prevent" allowing the Patriots to close to within five (24-19).  He continually said that the 'Prevent Defense" is great -- it prevents you from winning the game.  When the Bills did not play the Prevent Defense (and turned the heat up), they seemed to have the Patriots on their heels a bit.


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post #58 of 546
9/15/09 at 12:05pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem View Post




Johnny,

First, congratulations on the road win last night.  I really believed that the Raiders were going to take the game after that semi-bomb for a touchdown with minutes to play by Oakland.  But give Rivers credit -- his nine-play drive was very, very impressive in the closing minutes.

You're right about the Patriots decision to kick it away.  And what's even more compelling to me is that Brady marched down the field, and although he was picking up first down after first down, he continued to milk the clock.  I believe he knew that the Patriots would score.  And truth be told, after the fumble by McKelvin, I immediately thought the Patriots had the game won as well.

How the heck does someone get so open in that situation.  Cromartie, who was so great as a rookie, apparently is going to stink this season down the drain like he did last year.  He has the physical tools, but apparently cannot keep his head in the game.  I do agree, one heckuva game-winning drive.

"I believe he knew the Patriots would score" and so did everyone in the stadium and everyone watching.  Once they recovered the fumble, it was inevitable.  They're just too smart and too good.

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post #59 of 546
9/15/09 at 12:22pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Angell View Post




How the heck does someone get so open in that situation.  Cromartie, who was so great as a rookie, apparently is going to stink this season down the drain like he did last year.  He has the physical tools, but apparently cannot keep his head in the game.  I do agree, one heckuva game-winning drive.

"I believe he knew the Patriots would score" and so did everyone in the stadium and everyone watching.  Once they recovered the fumble, it was inevitable.  They're just too smart and too good.

 

I'd love to have Cromartie on our team.  It's one of the positions where we (IMO) could use some help.  How I long for the days of players with the calibre of a Hayes (with or without stickum') and/or Haynes....  I believe that cornerback and safety are so difficult to play well, especially with the rules that are now in place.

It looked to me like miscommunication between the safety and cornerback (I think).  They were jawing a little bit after the play, but nothing serious.

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post #60 of 546
9/15/09 at 12:36pm
I would be shocked if the Chargers were not the underdog next week.  I may have spoken too soon about chargers "easily" winning their division and the patriots lacking competition in their own division.  I still think the chargers will win their division, but superbowl bound (as so many have said) doesn't appear to be so after last nights game.  But, it was only game one, 15 more to go.
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