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Listening Mode for TX-SR605

post #1 of 42
9/1/09 at 12:50pm
Thread Starter 
I have the TX-SR605 receiver that was included in the HTIB HT-SP908.  A DirectTV HD box is connected to it via a HDMI cable.  The TX-SR605 is connected to a Vizio VP50 television via a HDMI cable.  I'm confused by all of the various listening modes.  How do I know which mode is the best for my listening pleasure when I mostly watch television programs via the Direct TV receiver.  It seems that the best setting for output on all 7 speakers is the "All Ch Stereo".  But this setting is described as the best for music listening!  Are my speakers adequate? The Bose people said that my receiver is only sending sound to 7 speakers rather than being a true "surround sound" system as their Accumass 10 would be if I bought and used it.  Any help on this would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Wes
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post #2 of 42
9/1/09 at 1:55pm
Not familiar with that particular model, but since it's a 7.1 receiver, it should offer Dolby Pro Logic IIx, as an option. That's the one I use for watching tv. It will take a stereo signal (SD channels), or a 5.1 signal (HD and premium channels), and send it to all seven speakers. Make sure the receiver is set to "Auto", so when watching dvds, it will go to the 5.1 soundtrack. If speakers are calibrated good, including sub, this should sound very good.

Quote:
The Bose people said that my receiver is only sending sound to 7 speakers rather than being a true "surround sound" system as their Accumass 10 would be if I bought and used it.
The Bose people are idiots! Your receiver is better than anything that Bose makes and sells. You won't find much love for Bose in the home theater world. Extremely overpriced for what you get. Your receiver will give you as much true surround, as is possible (from a surround source of course).

You may have to go into the receiver's setup menus, and let it know that you're using HDMI. Also, make sure the DirecTv box is set to output Dolby Digital, and you may need to tell it too, that you're using HDMI. That may already be done, but won't hurt to double check the settings.

If using a subwoofer, make sure the speakers are set to "Small", in receiver's setup menus. I see the 605 has the Audyssey feature. It does pretty good at calibrating the speakers. But, on mine, it set the speakers to "Large", when they need to be small. That was the only bad setting it made. Make sure your's is set to small also.

Good luck! Hope this helped.

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post #3 of 42
9/1/09 at 2:54pm
For DirecTV, you should be using plain Dolby digital for 5.1 shows (possibly with PL IIx applied).  For normal stereo 2.0 channels, it's basically personal preference, but like Ed, I typically use Dolby Pro Logic II Movie mode. (IIx if 7.1 rather than 5.1)  The amount of surround use is going to vary a lot by the actual program, some won't have much at all.  Most of the other modes like DTS Neo:6 are just alternative DSP algorithms to the PL II, you can experiment to see if you like them better than PL II or not.

The Bose salespeople statement, like most salespeople statements, is only half true, it applies to the "all ch stereo" mode only.  Their system won't do anything the Onkyo can't.  It is true that "all ch stereo" isn't really a "surround" application, it's just spreading the sound around equally to all speakers.  Normally for TV/movies, the action is in front so most of the sound is concentrated to the front, the rears are more for ambient sounds and the occasional bullet whizzing by.  All ch stereo would be weird for TV, don't you hear dialog coming from the surrounds?
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post #4 of 42
9/2/09 at 5:47am
Thread Starter 
Thanks everyone for the replies.  This is extremely good information that I will use to tweak my system.
Another question - in what situation or mode should I hear sounds from all 7 speakers.  Currently when I'm in Dolby Pro Logic IIx, the rear and side speakers (for most of the time) sound like running water when you put your ear close to them during a program.
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post #5 of 42
9/2/09 at 6:17am
Pro Logic IIx is when you'll hear surround sounds coming from all 7 speakers, or 7 ch. stereo. But, as was mentioned, 7 ch. stereo isn't surround sound.

In surround, most sound will come from front three speakers. The surround speakers are for ambient sounds, and aren't used constantly. I've noticed, when watching tv in Pro Logic IIx, some of the best use of the surround speakers happens during commercials. One in particular I'm thinking of is the Mercedes commercial. The one where the Mercedes is running down the road, and crashes through the glass, at the Mercedes showroom of their special cars. For surround sound, using the 7.1 speaker setup, that is the best commercial on tv.

I don't know what the "running water" sound is, unless the volume is low, and the sounds sound like they are running together, since you can't hear them good. Try turning the volume up some, and see if it still sounds that way. Is that on all channels? If not, it may be something to do with the way that channel is broadcasting. Maybe someone else has an idea what it is...........
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post #6 of 42
9/2/09 at 8:44am
Thread Starter 
Thanks Ed.  This info is extremely helpful.  I've been struggling with my "education" and the "tweaking" for several months.  I've read the manual several times from cover to cover. I didn't know how to explain what I wanted until now.  I also didn't have a good place to ask my questions until I found this forum.

I sort of wish that it was a way for someone to come in, set up the equipment and give you a rundown of how everything functions as well as suggested settings.

I'm slowly getting there.  Thanks again.
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post #7 of 42
9/2/09 at 9:31am
I think someone needs to create an "Onkyo to English" translation manual .
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post #8 of 42
9/2/09 at 11:18am
Thread Starter 
Ditto David.

I once heard that there was a CD that you could buy that, when played, would give certain sounds, ets that would help you set up the individual speakers.  Anyone know what I'm talking about?  Thanks.
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post #9 of 42
9/2/09 at 11:47am
Yes, there are some out there.  There are DVDs and BD's as well (like Avia and Digital Video Essentials).  However, you have Audyssey with your receiver which is much better than any CD or DVD.
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post #10 of 42
9/2/09 at 12:41pm
David's right. Audyssey is much better for the speaker calibration. If you get Avia or Digital Video Essentials, to do the speaker calibrations, you will also need to buy an SPL (Sound Pressure Level) meter, to work with the sounds the cd puts out, and make the final settings. Everyone I know that has double checked the Audyssey settings, against the SPL settings, says they were close enough that the time it took to double check them, wasn't worth it.

These discs also are used to calibrate the tv, to get it as best as you can, without having a professional calibration done, which can be quite expensive. Everyone says it's worth it though. I saw that Best Buy had the Blu ray version of Digital Video Essentials for $25, when we were in there the other day. I may end up getting that, just to calibrate my tv, until I can afford an ISF calibration.
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post #11 of 42
9/2/09 at 1:32pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks again.  In the time frame after my last post, I've been reading the thread "Audyssey MultEQ: Questions and Answers - Onkyo, Denon, et. al. ".  Man!!  This is really good stuff.  I've learned a lot.  This thread is very long.  I've been reading for the last 2 hours.  I'm now going to really get into this Audyssey and see if it will give me some muscle in my performance.
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post #12 of 42
9/2/09 at 1:44pm
I own the onyko 605 receiver. the listening modes are very important. it can be confusing at first. you will have to line by line on what they ask? and set dolby digital=dolby digital etc. there is a second page that includes trueHD/DTSHD. once you get the setting rights.. then it should work. I have my ps3 and panasonic 80 hooked up to the reciever. then have using optical for direct tv, roku, and xbox 360. you don't want it on all channel.

Jacob
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post #13 of 42
9/17/09 at 9:04am
Thread Starter 
Ed,
I noticed that you have the Onkyo 805.  When you are watching TV programs, do you hear sounds from all 7 speakers at some point or another?
Also, how can I tell what format a program is being broadcast in so that I can select the best listening mode on my Onkyo 605? Or will it switch automatically?
Thanks.
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post #14 of 42
9/17/09 at 9:55am


Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdogg View Post

Ed,
I noticed that you have the Onkyo 805.  When you are watching TV programs, do you hear sounds from all 7 speakers at some point or another?
Also, how can I tell what format a program is being broadcast in so that I can select the best listening mode on my Onkyo 605? Or will it switch automatically?
Thanks.
Yes, I hear sounds from all 7 speakers, but you won't constantly hear stuff from the rear speakers. Most sound will be from the front three. (I'm using Pro Logic IIx) Some programming uses the rear speakers more than others. I find that some commercials use the rear speakers more than the program.

The only channels that broadcast in surround are the HD channels, premium channels (HBO, Starz, etc.), and some PPV channels. All others should at least be stereo. If the receiver is set to "Auto", it will detect the signal automatically. If not using Pro Logic IIx, and the channel is broadcasting in 5.1 surround, it will play in 5.1 surround, and it should say "Dolby Digital" in the window of the receiver. If you are using Pro Logic IIx, and the channel is broadcasting in 5.1 surround, it will play in 7.1 surround, and say "PLIIx" in the window of the receiver. Mine says "PLIIxMovie", because I use the "Movie" DSP setting with it.
Hope this helps.........

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post #15 of 42
9/17/09 at 10:19am
Thread Starter 
Thanks Ed.  This helps a lot.
I plan to rerun the Audyssey tonight because I don't think some of the settings are correct.  Probably a mistake on my part.  After running, I plan to verify that the fronts are 80 and the LPF of LFE set at 120 (or 100 ???).  I don't have a feature that indicate "small" so I'm assuming that the 80 would indicate "small"
Is there an optimal setting for the sides and rear that I should look for or just leave them on the setting selected by Audyssey?
My subwoofer has a dial on the back.  Should this be at a certain setting "before" I start Audyssey?
Is this a good plan?
Thanks
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post #16 of 42
9/17/09 at 10:33am
Set the LFE to 120.

After running Audyssey, change any speakers set to "FULL" to 80Hz.  Do not lower anything that is set higher.

For the sub, set it to 'bypass' if you can.  If not, turn the crossover knob as high as possible.  Keep the phase at 0.  Set the volume about 1/3. Since I do not know what sub you have, some of these controls may not be present on the back of your sub. 

Report your results after you finish (there will be a summary screen at the end) and I can make better recommendations.
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post #17 of 42
9/17/09 at 11:01am
Thread Starter 
Thanks David.  On the back of the SW is a knob dial that has Min & Max.  Do I set it to Max and the receiver's volume knob to 1/3?  Thanks again.
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post #18 of 42
9/17/09 at 11:13am
Not the receiver's volume to 1/3....................
On back of sub, there's usually two knobs. One is phase, or maybe crossover frequency, and the other is volume.
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post #19 of 42
9/17/09 at 11:20am
Thread Starter 
I'm sorry, but my SW (Onkyo SKW-750) has only one knob on the back.  It is labeled min on the lower left and max on the lower right with 10 hash marks in between.
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post #20 of 42
9/17/09 at 1:41pm
I'm not sure then.
What happens if you turn the knob, while a movie is playing?
If the bass gets stronger when turned up, it's probably a volume knob. Do you have the manual for it?
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post #21 of 42
9/17/09 at 1:59pm
Thread Starter 
The manual indicates that it is a volume control for the SW.
Where should I set it before I run Audyssey?
Thanks.
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post #22 of 42
9/17/09 at 2:37pm
Try it about 1/3 (maybe 4 on a scale of 10).  Unfortunately with your model it will not warn you that it is too high or low (the newer ones do).  The only way to know for sure is to complete the Audyssey setup and review the results.  Copy the results down and post them here. 

FYI - What you are looking for is a subwoofer trim that is not +/- 10.  I know that probably sounds confusing, but it will make sense as you become more familiar with this hobby.  So, in the mean time, post your results and we can help.
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post #23 of 42
9/22/09 at 5:56am
Thread Starter 
I finally was able to run Audyssey again and here are the results.

Speaker type - Normal
Speaker Config
     Subwoofer -      Yes
     Front -             100 Hz
     Center -           120 Hz
     Surround -        150 Hz
     Surr Back -       150 Hz
     Surr Back Ch -  2 ch
     LPF of LFE  -   100 Hz
     Double Bass -   Off
Speaker Distance
     Front             10 ft
     Center           9 ft
     Surr Right      9 ft
     Surr Back R   9 ft
     Surr Back L   8 ft
     Surr Left        10 ft
     Subwoofer     10 ft
Level Calibration
     Left                0dB
     Center           -3db
     Right              0dB
     Surr Right     +1dB
     Surr Back R    0dB
     Surr Back L  +1dB
     Surr Left         0dB
     Subwoofer     -1dB
Intellivolume         0dB
Tone Control
     Bass            +10dB
     Treble            -10dB

Thanks for all of your help and input.
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post #24 of 42
9/22/09 at 6:40am
You might go in and change the LPF of LFE to 120 and see how it sounds.  Your surrounds don't go as low as the beginning range for the sub and the sub is currently set at 100hz.  This will close that gap a little.  As far as the sub volume, your almost perfect and to close to even bother adjusting.  Did you set the tone controlls?  That shouldn't be part of Audyssey set up and if I remember correctly, it may override some of the settings Audyssey made.  Other than that, everything looks great.

I also wanted to second what Ed said.  Do not even consider the Bose system (I had and Accoustimass system as my first HT speakers, I even think it was the 10 - 5 double cubes and a "bass module", but that was years ago) it was the worst decision I ever made in HT purchases.  I know first-hand that you can do much better for the money.  I would guess your current setup would sound better once you got them into your house and actually set them up.
Edited by ShanonS - 9/22/09 at 7:16am
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post #25 of 42
9/22/09 at 8:40am
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the reply ShanonS.  My system's speakers are the ones that came with the Home Theater In a Box setup.  I know that these are not the best but I hope to get better speakers for Christmas.  I'll probably be posting here and asking for some recommendations.

The biggest problem I have right now is that I feel that the sounds in the room are not crisp and definative.  The rear and sides barely have any volume to them so that when a sound should come out of those, it doesn't have much punch.  I'm expecting to get a surprise from the back and snap my head around to see where that sound is coming from.  Anyone -- does this sound like more of a result of my caliber of speakers?
Also, does anyone on here have the same same setup of speakers/receiver that I have?  Would love to hear your comments.

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post #26 of 42
9/22/09 at 9:32am
Just an FYI.   The LFE for the sub is not a crossover.  This is for the .1 channel only.  There will be no hole because of this setting. It still should be set to 120Hz since that is the spec. 

The rest of the numbers look perfect.

When you ran Audyssey, did the sound (the chirps) sound loud to you (or at least as loud as the rest of the speakers)?  Very rarely do I ever 'turn around' for a sound from behind.  The movies just are not setup that way.  The surrounds are more for effects, while keeping the viewer's attention on the screen.

A great movie for surrounds is Open Range (the one with Kevin Costner).  There is a scene near the beginning of the movie where they come into town during a driving rain storm.  It should sound like you are in the middle of the storm.  You will hear thunder all around you.  Also, later in the movie during the shootout you will hear bullets flying everywhere.  Get this and report back.  Try it with and without Audyssey (you should notice a difference).

Another good movie is Signs (or any M. Night Shyamalan movie).  Lots of directional sounds there.



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post #27 of 42
9/22/09 at 10:46am
Doesn't LPF=Low Pass Filter.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that mean it won't send signal above 100 hz (with a roll-off), so sound that goes to the surrounds will roll-off above the points listed and what is sent to the LFE will roll-off at 100.  So, what happens to the 100-20 range for the surrounds and the 100-150 range for the rears?  I don't think it's a big deal either way, but I thought the suggestions in the Audyssey thread said to raise the LPF up to 120, and what is listed in his settings is currently 100.  Probably won't make that big of a difference either way.
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post #28 of 42
9/22/09 at 11:03am
LPF of LFE - Low Pass Filter of the Low Frequency Effect channel.  It does not impact the non LFE signal sent by the crossover setting.  Onkyo allows you to change it for some reason.  Other manufactures do not.  It should be set to 120 Hz since that is the Dolby Standard for the .1 channel. 

http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/zz-_Shared_Assets/English_PDFs/Professional/38_LFE.pdf
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post #29 of 42
9/22/09 at 11:09am
I just went back and looked at the Audyssey thread and saw that.  I knew there was a reason that it should be 120, just got the reason wrong.  They should just lock it at 120 since that's std.  It would leave a hole in the LFE signal itself, but would not affect what comes from the surrounds.
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post #30 of 42
9/22/09 at 11:16am
Thread Starter 
David,
When I ran Audyssey, the chirps from all of the speakers sounded about at the same level.
However, when I'm listening to a TV program I generally have to crank the volume up to around 54 to hear decent sounds.  Anything below that sounds almost unintelligible. Should I have set the volume level at a certain spot "before" I ran the Audyssey program?  Or is there some adjustment that I can make in order to get my volume up without having to go to such high numbers on the volume scale?
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