CDs on the way out?

It appears to me that audio/video on any type of hard disc is on the way out, even BluRay, though that may take a while. Eventually everything will be streamed to a computer/hard drive of some sort. I think there will always be a market for vinyl even if it's a small one so those might still be produced on a small scale by companies with a passion for music. Dvd's, BluRay, cd's will go the way of 8-track, reel-to-reel and cassette tapes. The times they are a changing. 

I certainly agree with you about mp3s. They were the main reason sacd and dvd-a didn't make it. But, to me, and an awful lot of other people, there is no better sounding format than vinyl. Younger people are finally beginning to find this out, and vinyl is beginning to make a big comeback. That's why your high end shop had a good selection of vinyl. Nothing sounds better than an album, that's in excellent condition. A cd doesn't even come close.

I like cds too. They are very convenient, being able to jump to the next song, being able to set player on random play, etc. But, I much prefer a vinyl album, for serious listening.

For streaming, I think it will be many years before it becomes the preferred way of getting music and movies. There's just too many (probably most) people still on dial-up, because they can't get cable or dsl, out where they live. There is a satellite option, but their download and upload speeds aren't that impressive, from what I've seen. So, I believe discs will still be around for a long time.

I for one hope physical media never disappears entirely. With physical media, you possess the entertainment as long as you have the disc, cassette, platter etc. and a device on which to play it. With streaming media, you possess the entertainment only as long as the provider continues to provide it.

I certainly hope they stay around for quite a while.

I buy 2-3 a month, but gave up buying locally years ago. Selection is pathetic unless you're looking for a new release.

Get everything now exclusively from Amazon, sometimes need a little boost to get free shipping on a DVD, so I'll add a CD I've wanted.

Once in a while I'll bump into something decent at Costco, but it's totally hit or miss.

I support my local businesses as much as possible, but some just don't seem to care. Lousy service & lack of selection, I go online.

Agreed Adam. Remember the recent amazon kindle debacle...?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html

Well, the Holy Grail of any entertainment company is to be able to charge customers for each listen/viewing of the music or movies, rather than only being able to charge you once for the physical media then allowing you to play the media as many times as you want.  So anything they can do to move things in a pay-per-view/listen direction is what they'll do.

Yes, eventually the studios will push to make ownership of copyrighted material illegal. The technology is not there yet. But once all data can be stored online somewhere and people can access it easily, they'll push for access fees and no ownership.It is inevitable.

After people have owned music for more than a century and movies for 30 years, I wish any company luck in getting people to pay for it every time. I have no doubt that it's the wet dream of every entertainment company in the world, they just can't pull it off.

That's why I'm hoping that BD-Live doesn't catch on.

I own around 3,000 LPs and approximately 1,500 CDs, as well as a plethora of other formats (8-track, cassettes, reel-to-reel, 45s, 78s, etc.).  These and several other formats will continue to thrive for many years, at least in our home.  There is so much music on LPs that still has not made the transition to another format, and I am doubtful it will ever occur.

I was showing a couple of college students our university's LP collection a few weeks ago.  You should have seen the two of them as they perused their way through several of our 10,000 or so LPs.  It was like they had discovered a gold mine of music that they did not know existed.  They now make regular visits to the library. :)

I would not miss CDs one bit. I don't think I have had one in my hands in years. I know mp3s aren't the best audio quaity, but when listening to them in my car or on computer speakers, it doesn't matter. I like the fact that I can listen to all my music in random order instead of 10 songs at a time. Maybe someday when I have time, a good sound system and the kids are moved out, I will start really listening to music again. By then I hope they have improved on the quality of mp3s or what every the current format would be. But then again - that would mean I would have to purchase my whole collection - again ! $$!

The stats on CDs are devastating: Teen purchase of CDs is down 50% from a year or two ago.

MP3 is the replacement; it is the "better" format. Incoming college freshmen, in blind tests, prefer the sound of MP3 music to CD. And MP3 is "better" when "better" is defined as playable on portable, usable on computer, and easily gotten online.

While I prefer CDs -- an "archival" hardcopy format that is easily copied to my Mac / iPod. But
I haven't listened to a CD in four years; not since getting an iPod. I don't relish their extinction, but CDs are on the way out.

(Music on DVD won't happen. It only makes things worse for the consumer. Physical format. Copying is technically prohibited. More expensive than DVD. Not easily playable in cars, at gym, on iPod.)

http://www.itfacts.biz/33-of-all-music-sold-in-2008-was-digital/12867
http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/kit-eaton/technomix/will-kids-and-mp3s-ruin-music-recording-quality

That's surprising.  I have not bought a CD in 10 years. 

Being the kind of "old school" guy that I am, I still buy CDs on a fairly regular basis.

I was really surprised when Disney announced I would NOT be able to buy a soundtrack CD for the film Up!.

But I have also, for the first time, now been using an iPod for trips to the gym and admit that I have been  doing some downloading from amazon & the iTunes store. 

I wouldn't want to use those formats for home listening...although for convenience' sake I will play tunes on my PC while working and surfing the HTF.  I just love the sound quality on Blu-ray discs.  The lossless concerts and performance discs I own are just tremendous. 

I suppose the death of CD is inevitable...but I, too, think it will probably be a fairly long while before it goes the way of VHS. 

Two interesting points from that link.
1) iTunes (Apple) has 25% of the music market and 69% of the online subset. By any measure, Apple does not have a monopoly.

2) No demographic breakdown. CDs are bought by geezers (that is, anyone over 35). They're dying off or desparately trying to salvage their 401k. Youth are *not* buying CDs. Digital music will win by simple attrition.

Reason CDs don't sell as well as they used to:  PRICE.

What, they're too cheap?

20 years ago, CDs were about $15. Today, CDs are about $15. In inflation adjusted dollars, the price has gone down. In real terms, CDs are easily bought for <$12, and often $10. A full album at iTunes is $9.99, about the same price, and you get lower quality, no liner notes, no physical copy.

The exclusion of liner notes is another issue that I wish companies distributing CDs would address more carefully.  It is especially helpful to have these intact not only for informational purposes, but also for those who are engaged in music research.  This is another of the reasons that I prefer vinyl in many cases, or using vinyl in conjunction with a CD release of an identical title.  For me, the quality of the recording is not in every case paramount.

It is unfortunate that the transfer to CD of many collections of works on LPs omits not only liner notes and art work, but actual tracks that were included in the original release.  This has occurred with David Munrow's Music Of the Gothic Era, as well as selected recordings of the works of William Byrd (distributed originally on L'Oiseau Lyre), and other works from the medieval and renaissance historical periods.  With CDs, I don't believe space is the primary problem, and yet several of the tracks making the transition are often omitted.

Dennis,

Good points.  I purchased the complete Beethoven piano sonatas for $20.  (My friend bought these for me in China; they are on the Deutsche Grammophon label, with Wilhelm Kempf performing.)  That's quite a fair price for so much music.

BTW, I just checked Amazon, and the price is a bit more steep there:

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Complete-Sonatas-Ludwig-van/dp/B000001GCC

I like the idea of a data track for liner notes.  I hadn't considered that possibility.

Do you own all of the Bach Cantatas?  I'd be interested in which set you have of those.  I own about 80% of them on LP.

I have the Helmuth Rilling/Bach-Collegium Stuttgart set of the complete cantatas.  It was part of the Bohemian Music Service re-issue of the Hanssler Classic set of the complete works of JS Bach on about 180 CDs.  IIRC I paid about $200 for the set from an online music store in Stuttgart.

I'm sure I started a thread on each of these sets over in the "music" forum.


EDIT   http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/196700/complete-works-of-bach-on-172-cds-for-191 

Dennis,

Thanks (and for the link as well).

I own the complete Beethoven works (LP = Beethoven Bicentennial Collection); I also own the complete Mozart (in score).  I'm working on the complete works of J. S. Bach (CDs, LPs, and scores). :)

I buy mp3s when it's the only thing available.  I like a physical copy, even if it's only going to get transferred to my computer.  I can read the booklet and always have the CD to retransfer if need be.  Then, for the most part, I listen to the mp3s when I want to hear music.  But, there are some CDs that just don't seem to transfer right.  Old acoustic music from the '30s that sounds great on CD tends to be lossy when ripped.

There have been times when I wanted to hear a song right now! so I have purchased the mp3, but with plans to buy the physical CD in the future.  My friend who is a year older than me thinks that's nuts and has pretty much given up on CDs altogether.  His CDs had been in storage while he lived in a small apartment, but since moving into a proper house, he has spent the last few months ripping his entire collection.  I don't think he has any plans to buy another CD, unless it's a rare case where it's not available for purchase on iTunes/Amazon/etc.  I, on the other hand, will buy CD until it's no longer an option.

Have to throw in that, yes, I have a turntable and am a fan of LPs.  I haven't bought any modern albums on vinyl, though there are a few I am planning to seek out.  I already have the CDs.  I haven't had too much luck converting my vinyl collection to digital.  If I could get that sorted, I'd love to transfer some of my old LPs that will never be see the light of day in any modern format.

One last point: yes, Best Buy, Borders and other brick-and-mortars are starting to have paltry CD collections, if they have CDs at all.  But, I have noticed that a poor selection now extends to their DVDs as well.  It used to be, I could find just about anything I wanted in a Best Buy--library titles, old TV series, whatever.  Now, they only seem to have the hot new releases.  It's getting to where I have to order DVDs and CDs alike online if I want to get what I want.

I have noticed that many here are comparing the quality of LPs to MP3s. As a matter of preference, I would take mp3 over LPs any day. I had a collection of over 200 LPs in the 70s and 80s. I took the best care possible of them and yet playing them still sounded like a bowl of Rice Krispies  with all the snap-crackel-pop. Even the high fidelity ones that I spent $30 on.  I replaced them all with CDs as soon as I could.

Now I know that MP3s loose a lot in the compression, but with the equipment that I listen on, I don't notice it as much as I would notice the crackle of a LP. Right now I am leery of buying any music whether on CD or MP3. The formats keep changing and I don't want to spend money on something that will be obsoulete in the near future. Good grief, I don't know how many times I have purchased some music over and over again.

Dave,
What formats keep changing? The CD has been around for 20+ years. MP3 has been solid for 10+ years. AAC is making inroads due to iTunes, but MP3 looks to be around for a number of years more. I see a lot of uncertainty in the marketplace, but not so much with the actual technology.

I don't know what the next format will be, but it seems that it does change or get better every 5-10 years. I have bought many, many albums over and over. LP- high fidelity LP - 8 track - cassette - and the last time is MP3 with many of them being mp4s that will only work with itunes. As you said MPs have been around for 10+ years and I figure they will be around for some years more. But I also expect that the industry is over due for a new format. Maybe a digital format that has CD or LP quality. A digital bluray for music so to speak. There is a lot  of money to be made getting everyone to buy their whole collection again. Being as CD (on their way out? per thread title) and MP3s have been around so long the new format (what every it is) will be out soon (3-5years). By then the kids will be through college and moved out and I will have time, money and uninterrupted calm to enjoy music again.

"There is a lot  of money to be made getting everyone to buy their whole collection again."

Dave,

Do you think that people actually do this, though?  Maybe they do.  I don't; rather, I just continue to expand my exisiting collection and acquire multiple formats as the years move onward.  Then again, I am a collector.

Still, your point is well taken if there are a great number of consumers who actually start over and buy their entire collection again.  Doing this would not occur to me.  And even if it did, it would be quite difficult in my case as we're talking about a collection numbering around several thousands of items.

Only if you bought before more than 15 years ago; when CD had completely replaced tapes and vinyl. Otherwise, I'll guess there's no need or desire to rebuy in the next 15 to 30 years. Caveats are people switching to a subscription service, buying "remastered" releases, or are too lazy or ignorant to rip a CD.

Given the failure of higher-quality audio formats and the move to lower quality, MP3 singles, there's no obvious reason to rebuy a collection on CD now or on the horizon.

Edited by DaveF - 8/26/09 at 12:59pm