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Pimp my HT - make it better !

post #1 of 13
8/21/09 at 1:39pm
Thread Starter 
So, I recently moved to in-walls and i'm thinking I may not be driving them harder.  I moved from NHT M5's for C/L/R and L5's in the back, to Def Tech Inwalls, in ceilings.  Here's what I'm working with.  Your input it highly appreciated.

Pioneer Elite 92TXH
Fronts (L/R) Def Tech UIW 75
Center CLR 2000 (in cabinet)
Rears UIW 94/a (ceiling)
Velodyne DD12 sub
TV Pioneer Kuro 6010
HTPC - mac mini / OTA dvr

When I installed the fronts, I crammed the wall with fiberglass, and a piece of dynamat, the in ceiling I did the same.

 

It's not that I don't think it sounds incredible, I do--I'm just wondering if I can improve it with more power... or other options.

Thanks all--

Steve (newb).

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post #2 of 13
8/21/09 at 7:34pm
Easy.  Ditch the in-walls and in ceiling speakers
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post #3 of 13
8/22/09 at 7:59am
While the 92thx is a fine receiver I'd replace it with an Integra 9.9 pre-pro and an Outlaw 7 channel amp and get the Onkyo and Kuro professionally calibrated. 

Also get an Oppo Digital BD-83 BluRay/SACD/DVD-A player (or the Pioneer BDP-09 or Marantz 8003 if you're not into hi-res music).

They have no budget on "Pimp My Ride" so I didn't have one either.

If you do have a budget then just get the Oppo.
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post #4 of 13
8/22/09 at 10:21am
I agree with David.  The first way to improve the system is the speakers.  In-wall, even the good ones, are really for appearance, not for performance.
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post #5 of 13
8/24/09 at 9:56am
Thread Starter 
I just went to inwalls, the idea is to drive them as best I can.  while they might not be optimal, they have WAF value.  because 90% of voice and sound seems to originate from teh center--I managed to keep that one in the cabinet.  Also, the velodyne produces most of the bass for the inwalls--and they seem to perform as well, if not better than, the NHT's did.

I'm mostly looking to improve on what I'm driving them with--I recently switched the pioneer down to 6ohm, which seems to deliver a bit more power--the manual recommend 6 or 4ohm for def techs.  I'm thinking if I at least push the front three with 200-250 I'd be getting more out of them.

inceiling: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2654/3830029853_ab1193775d.jpg
inwall: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2578/3830030997_798d645718.jpg

The inwall pic still shows some mess ... was patching and sanding still.  The C/L/R2000 is in the center of the cabinet.
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post #6 of 13
8/24/09 at 9:57am
Thread Starter 
also, would it be horrible to use the pioneer as a pre--and just add an amp from the lineouts ?
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post #7 of 13
8/24/09 at 11:59am
Switching the receiver to 6ohm will not deliver more power.  Quite the opposite.  It also may be unnecessary.  If the speakers are rated at 8 ohm, switch the receiver back to 8 ohm.  As far as an external amp, that is up to you.  It probably won't provide that much of an improvement, particularly if the sub is set up properly.  Still, from one perspective, you can almost never have too much power.  It just isn't always the most prudent way to spend money.
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post #8 of 13
8/24/09 at 12:33pm
Thread Starter 
Speakers are "8 ohm compatible" --the manual to the speakers says if your am is capable of operating at a 6 or 4 ohm load to switch it to 6.

The pioneer has a higher power rating when operating at a 6ohm load, am I wrong to assume if the speakers are producing one it should be delivering more power?
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post #9 of 13
8/24/09 at 3:59pm
That is kind of the reverse Steve.  First, Def Tech seems to be playing a few games with the impedance ratings, but it sounds like you should set the receiver to 6 ohm.  I don't have enough time right now to go into real detail, but what you are doing is actually "clamping down" on the output of the receiver.  Not increasing it.  The reason is, the speakers have low impedance, which means low resistance.  If you run the receiver without the "clamping down" it can overheat due to the low resistance.  It is something like driving downhill with faulty brakes.  You go fast, but you can also easily crash, or in the case of an amplifier, overheat.  Setting the receiver to 6 ohm actually holds back the potential output of the amp, rather than increasing it, so the amp doesn't overheat. Without setting the output to 6ohm you would get even higher potential output, but risk damaging the receiver.
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post #10 of 13
8/25/09 at 5:22am
Thread Starter 
I sortof get it, the impedence has always been a bit of a mystery to me.  I've always been more familiar with wiring car stereo/subs.  We used to wire in parallel to get the impedence down to 1ohm, so the amp would drive them harder.  I always assumed that you open the amp up, not limit it?

So if I were to look into trying out a sunfire 5 channel amp and use the pioneer as a pre, the sunfire has a rating of say "300" at 4ohms and 200 at 8ohms, which would these speakers be likely to use?  

Appreciate your response John, trying to learn a bit here and get a grasp on what's going on :)
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post #11 of 13
8/25/09 at 7:32am
The wouldn't use 300 or 200.  Impedance varies by frequency therefore your amp will push different amounts of power depending on the frequency playing and the volume control setting.

All things being equal, you shouldn't hear a difference between your receiver and an external amp if both have less than 1% THD at your listening volume.  Now, all things aren't equal and amps do have a sonic signature.  So even if both are very low distortion you might like the sound of an amp.  But you might not.  I can turn my Pioneer up to painful levels and there is no sign of straining from the speakers.  That means the amp is doing a great job in sending a clean signal to the speakers.

Don't make expensive changes without doing the simple stuff first.  Calibrate your system.  Give it a chance.  Then if it doesn't meet your goals, get an amp.
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post #12 of 13
8/25/09 at 7:42am
Thread Starter 
Thanks Robert--perhaps I need to better my understanding of how the in-home amps deliver power. 

 

I just calibrated it last night, and there was a pretty significant improvement.  I'll test the turn-up to ear bleeding volumes and see how it does. 
 

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post #13 of 13
8/25/09 at 3:23pm
In home amps deliver power exactly like car amp.  There is a lot of mis-information about both home audio and car audio floating around that people take as gospel.

One example is adding more power.  First, if you aren't maxing out your current system then you aren't going to get any benefit of using more powerful amps.  Yes, the distortion may be a little lower but can you hear the difference between .1% THD and .01% THD?  If you are straining your current system then going from 100w/channel to 200w/channel isn't going to double the sound output.  At best you will get a 3db increase.  Real world, you will get a 2db increase or even less depending on how well your speakers handle power compression.  It is usually better to go with more efficient speakers than throw more power at your current ones.

-Robert
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