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3-D for Blu-ray Is Just Around the Corner - Page 2

post #31 of 80
8/23/09 at 6:00pm
[quote]But the plane where you need to focus (in order to get sharp images on your retina) is NOT at the same place where it should be. So your lenses have to be focussed on another plane (the one where the screen is - that's where sharp images of both the left and the right eye view are). Of course that's no problem if the images are supposed to be close to (or behind) the screen. The focussing sharpness is affected mostly for images that are (supposed to be) close to your head.[/quote]

 
But your eyes don't work like that.  Your brain is focusing on the plane of the screen, and so long as the image in question is in focus, (or out of focus for good reason), there are no focus problems.


Which again comes back to what I said in the first place-- respect of the stereo window and not throwing things outside of it.  The filmmakers from the '50s realized this and for the most part kept it behind the screen.  Recent films WILL give you a headache because no one has figured this out yet.

And the point of which your eyes focus to infinity is about 20 feet (actually it's 50, but at 20, there's so little difference in muscle movement), and if you're sitting in the back of the theater (like you should for 3D), that's more than ample space for your eyes not to be working overtime.

 

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post #32 of 80
8/23/09 at 11:36pm
Ten straight days of 3-D movies from sun up to sun down didn't leave me with headaches.  That goes for both World 3-D Film Expos. 
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post #33 of 80
8/24/09 at 1:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Theakston View Post

But your eyes don't work like that.


Yes they do normally, instinctively and automatically. The fact that you can also focus rather easily somewhere else, doesn't change the fact that it's a deviation form the constant day-to-day practice and thus a bit of a strain. Some (like me) can do it without many problems, some tend to get a headache.

And, as DaveF correctly said, it's not the same as normal, real life binocular vision.
 
The rest of your post repeats, in different words, what I have been saying, so your earlier line
Quote:
Cees' explanation was well-meaning, but totally wrong.

which as you may expect was the one I was reacting to, was ... well, totally wrong.  


Cees
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post #34 of 80
8/24/09 at 5:38am
To some degree, we're in violent agreement :)

I can't speak to the headaches from physiological knowledge. But it's clear that the physical visual response is working abnormally for 3D movies. Even while your focus is at distance (approaching inifinity), your eye rotation must converge and diverge according to the apparent 3D distance. This is unnatural; the visual system is working in a while that is contrary to real life.

My understanding was that this conflicted behavior is the source of eye-strain and headaches in those that suffer them (and I've had tinges of that with some 3D movies). But maybe not; I'm open to better explanations.

But whether physically induced or psychosomatic, some people suffer visual distress from 3D movies. I've read that filmmakers have learned techniques to reduce this distress and make 3D movies more broadly enjoyable. Hopefully this is so.
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post #35 of 80
8/24/09 at 12:30pm
The fact that you can also focus rather easily somewhere else, doesn't change the fact that it's a deviation form the constant day-to-day practice and thus a bit of a strain. Some (like me) can do it without many problems, some tend to get a headache.

I experienced a strange phenomenon today, whilst watching the new Tarantino film "inglourious Basterds" which was in standard 2-D

a scene, involving a kitchen table, cause a flickering sensation if I focused on the main character in the shot, if I moved my focus back to the table, the flickering disappeared, every time I moved back to the character the flickering was very noticeable to my left

is this a result of my *slightly* faulty eye - i don't wear glasses 90% of the time, but only when tired as I have a minimal prescription for my left eye which was damaged (scratched) in a childhood accident

with the new 3-D films coming out (that are reported to becomed the industry "norm" for hollywood blockbusters) are people like me, with slight vision defects, going to suffer headaches from wearing polarising glasses? what about spectacle wearers? (I read about glasses manufacturers looking into offering prescription, polarising glasses for spectacle wearers)

something else that puzzles me, sorry for my ignorance, with theatres that cannot display 3-D due to lack of investment (digital projector, silver coated screen, etc.) how does the 2-D film differ to the 3-D film? for example, will Avatar only be shown on 3-D cinema theatres, or is there a 2-D version too? How do they shoot the 3-D and 2-D at the same time?
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post #36 of 80
8/24/09 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hampsteadbandit View Post

is this a result of my *slightly* faulty eye - i don't wear glasses 90% of the time, but only when tired as I have a minimal prescription for my left eye which was damaged (scratched) in a childhood accident

I'm not sure - but I doubt that. It could be the rods-and-cones thing.

Did you watch an SDVD and at less than 60 fps on the screen?
If so, it could possibly be caused by an element of high contrast (was the table light to a darker background?) simply showing the flicker of the image.

The retina has rods and cones. Cones to see colour and to see sharp (highest density in the center of your retina, called the fovea), rods to see weaker light, less sensitive to colours and situated more in the periphery of your retina. The cones also tend to average out flicker much more than the rods do.

So, looking away from an old-fashioned TV set always made the flicker more visible: when you look straight at it, you don't see it as easily.

Thus, when looking directly at that table, with your cones, you may not see what your rods can see while you're looking away from it
.
Here's more about this.


Cees
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post #37 of 80
8/25/09 at 2:07am
PRICE!  Give me a PRICE!  (An estimated date would be nice too, before I go buy a new TV that may be obsolete!)
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post #38 of 80
8/25/09 at 2:45pm
Thread Starter 
This question is for the 3-D experts GregK and Jack Theakston. Panasonic's 3-D system promotes 1080P for both eyes. Does the current field sequential system that works with DLP 120hz TV's only give you 240 lines for each eye from a 480i DVD?
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post #39 of 80
8/26/09 at 1:28pm
Up was conceived for 3D from the beginning, albeit a not overly gimmicky 3D.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR View Post

I'm fairly certain that Up didn't start out as a 3-D movie but I thought adding 3-D to the movie was an enhancement and there was no goofy "Whoa, let me stick a pole out at the audience!!!!" shots. ...
 
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post #40 of 80
8/26/09 at 3:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken_McAlinden View Post

Up was conceived for 3D from the beginning, albeit a not overly gimmicky 3D.

 


That's even better because they just let the 3-D add to (rather than dominate) the movie
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post #41 of 80
8/27/09 at 7:33am
We are going to be out at Cedia in another 2 weeks and
will work on getting you a price of Panasonic's new full
HD 3D Home Theater System.
 
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post #42 of 80
8/28/09 at 12:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken_McAlinden View Post

Up was conceived for 3D from the beginning, albeit a not overly gimmicky 3D.
 

The filmmakers themselves said that the 3D version came in quite late in the game, and that a separate team was put on it.
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post #43 of 80
8/28/09 at 10:15pm
this news alone will make me stop buying BD hardware and 3-D capable software until AFTER spex are done and finished and i have a 3-D projector and LCD display, but then my AVR's HDMI won't work =( until i upgrade to a hdmi 1.4 AVR =(. *sigh* this is like the worst upgrade game in history =p
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post #44 of 80
8/28/09 at 10:55pm
Good thing I stuck to my old audio and video gear. It sucks to not get the full 1080p picture since my RPTV is an old CRT system, but deciding not to replace my gear until the set is at least 10 to 12 years old is going to save me a lot of money and the landfill a lot of space. Sure wish I could have sprung for a new set of speakers though. I can't get replacement tweeters for my Mirage M5si speakers anymore.
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post #45 of 80
8/29/09 at 7:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S View Post

Good thing I stuck to my old audio and video gear. It sucks to not get the full 1080p picture since my RPTV is an old CRT system, but deciding not to replace my gear until the set is at least 10 to 12 years old is going to save me a lot of money and the landfill a lot of space.


As a former boss of mine used to say, score one more for procrastination! 
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post #46 of 80
8/29/09 at 7:54am
The best time to upgrade is always tomorrow.
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post #47 of 80
9/1/09 at 1:29pm
This past weekend I saw a 3D demo at Fry's Electronics in Burbank on an 82-inch DLP Mitsubishi monitor.  They had four pairs of 3D glasses, some of them working and some not.  A large sign by the monitor advertised "3D READY!"

The glasses were similar to the glasses you wear when watching 3D movies in a theater, not red and blue but kind of grayish, which brought down the luminosity from the TV.  

One side of one pair of glasses kept going annoyingly in and out, so the image went from 3D to double.  I kept thinking, "Is this going to happen in the middle of a show on a Saturday night?"

They showed some 3D computer games, some live action and trailers from movies like ICE AGE 3.

The image was good but certainly not as impressive as, say, the Digital 3D I've seen in theaters.  Is this because I was not looking at a 1080p image?  Somebody care to explain...

Thanks.
Edited by GerardoHP - 9/1/09 at 9:38pm
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post #48 of 80
9/1/09 at 4:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GerardoHP View Post

This past weekend I saw a 3D demo at Fry's Electronics in Burbank on an 82-inch DLP Mitsubishi monitor.  They had four pairs of 3D glasses, some of them working and some not.  A large sign by the monitor advertised "3D READY!"

The glasses were similar to the glasses you wear when watching 3D movies in a theater, not red and blue but kind of grayish, which brought down the luminosity from the TV.  

One side of one pair of glasses kept going annoyingly in and out, so the image went from 3D to double.  I kept thinking, "Is this going to happen in the middle of a show on a Saturday night in the middle of a show?"

They showed some 3D computer games, some live action and trailers from movies like ICE AGE 3.

The image was good but certainly not as impressive as, say, the Digital 3D I've seen in theaters.  Is this because I was not looking at a 1080p image?  Somebody care to explain...

Thanks.

The demo I saw on a 73 inch Mitsubishi DLP looked great. Too bad Frye's demo was screwed up. Your eyes are seeing 540p or 540i.
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post #49 of 80
9/1/09 at 5:17pm
By the time they get all of the bugs out of the system and figure out what the final specs are for all of this, something new will come along to make this new 3D system obsolete.  I personally find 3D to be gimmicky as it is, and since my HD/BD system is only two years old, I see no rush to make an upgrade.
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post #50 of 80
9/2/09 at 5:29am
Thread Starter 

Sony plans to put 3D TVs in homes by end of 2010


http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article6817969.ece

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post #51 of 80
9/13/09 at 6:01am
Thread Starter 

Blu-ray Disc Association plans 3D move

The Blu-ray Disc Association is examining a number of criteria and, at a minimum, the specification will require delivery of 1080p resolution to each eye and backward compatibility for both discs and players.

By Suzanne Deffree, Managing Editor, News -- Electronic News, 9/2/2009

The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) has announced plans to incorporate 3D into the Blu-ray Disc format.

The BDA said it is examining a number of criteria and, at a minimum, the specification will require delivery of 1080p resolution to each eye and backward compatibility for both discs and players. The association further explained that the 3D discs will also include a 2D version of the film that can be viewed on existing 2D players and that 3D players will allow consumers to playback their existing libraries of 2D content.

No additional details on the plans, including a timeframe for a 3D launch, were given.

"The BDA intends to take full advantage of the format's high bandwidth and capacity to achieve the very highest possible quality 3D experience," said Victor Matsuda, Blu-ray Disc Association global promotions committee chair, in a statement. "Just as Blu-ray Disc has paved the way for next generation, high-definition home entertainment, it will also set the standard for 3D home viewing in the future."

The announcement saw support from Walt Disney Studios, makers of 'Up," an animated movie now playing in 3D. The company said that 3D in theaters is doing well and that consumer adoption of Blu-ray is growing at a steady pace.

"The 3D theatrical market has been very successful this year," said Bob Chapek, president of Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment, in the statement. "We are just now seeing all of the true capabilities of 3D and with Blu-ray Disc's superior technical characteristics, as well as the broad industry support of the format, it makes it the ideal packaged media platform for 3D home entertainment."

The BDA reminded that its efforts provide individual companies with the technical information and guidelines necessary to develop and announce products on their own internal planning cycles and timetables.

The BDA made its statement this week ahead of the IFA consumer electronics show, scheduled to kick off in Berlin, tomorrow.

Intel, Samsung, and Warner Bros Entertainment are among the BDA's 180-member list of supporters.

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post #52 of 80
9/14/09 at 10:43am
Quote:
 I personally find 3D to be gimmicky as it is

I felt the same way until I saw Panasonics 3D demo....
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post #53 of 80
9/14/09 at 11:06am
To consider 3D as general idea gimmicky seems a bit odd, unless one also considers gimmicky such silliness as "surround sound", "high definition", even "talkies" or "color". Each is a new technology that can add to the presentation. And certainly they are all used in "gimmicky" ways -- I spent a week at Disney and saw many 3D "gimmicks", where 3D is used soley for its own sake (which I find great fun, but others may not)

But movies like "Up" and "Coraline" show how 3D can be another part of the filmmakers toolkit to craft their art, just as the use of color, composition and sound design are.
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post #54 of 80
9/14/09 at 11:49am
Dave-
You are correct.  I should have been more specific.  What I was intending to say was that the previous implementations of 3D in the home have been gimmicky, and until I saw Panasonic's 3D demo I never would have considered investing in 3D at home.  I have attended some great 3D theatrical releases over the past few years.  What Panasonic (and other companies) are working will finally make that available at home.
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post #55 of 80
9/14/09 at 12:47pm
It's an interesting idea, home 3D. Having seen Coraline 3D in the theater, I'm not especially interested in owning it at home since it will be so greatly different. To me, it's like seeing a movie in surround sound at the theater and only being able to have the mono version at home. (Though, irrationally, I don't feel that way about Up.)

But at others said, I think this is going to be a slow burn; slower than Blu Ray, in adoption.
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post #56 of 80
9/14/09 at 3:11pm
It all depends on how much new equipment we have to buy.
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post #57 of 80
9/15/09 at 6:38am
Thread Starter 

Disney Eyes First 3-D Blu-ray Releases by 2010


Posted September 15, 2009 05:56 AM by Juan Calonge

 Walt Disney Studios Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment intends to release its first "theatrical-styled" 3-D Blu-ray Disc releases as early as fourth quarter 2010, to prime people for the expected launch of 3-D-at-home hardware. The studio demoed 3-D clips of its movies at a fan conference held last week in Anaheim, California.

Clips included the upcoming theatrical 'A Christmas Carol', shown on Blu-ray via a 3-D-enabled Panasonic TV and Blu-ray player. The video was encoded using a new version of the AVC codec, dubbed AVC Multi-View Codec, or AVC-MVC.

To date, the public has mostly only been able to enjoy high-quality, stereoscopic 3-D in theaters, and anaglyph versions (using two-color glasses) are largely considered not to be good enough. Disney is not including a 3-D viewing option on films shown in 3-D such as 'Up' because it doesn't want to “support inferior products to the originals.”

Disney hopes to support with titles the hardware launch of 3-D in 2010, when brand name manufacturers Panasonic, Sony, among others will be selling their first stereoscopic 3-D TVs and BD players. Some of Disney's possible candidates for a home 3-D release in 2010 are its movies that will open theatrically in 3-D in spring 2010, such as 'Toy Story 3' and 'Alice in Wonderland', which should street on 3-D Blu-ray by the end of that year.

“We'd love to have our 3-D products out as soon as possible, as soon as the holidays 2010,” said Gordon Ho, Disney's executive VP of content, marketing and business development, at the D23 fan conference. “I think 3-D is positioned very well in the theatrical marketplace. And that is creating demand to see it in the home.”

“People are coming [out of the demo] saying they want to try 3-D in the home,” added Ho. “They didn't think that it could look this good in the home. Once people can see this, we know that there is a market for it.”

There is a question of whether people will be motivated to purchase new 3-D high-definition TV sets and Blu-ray players, when many have only recently upgraded to the high-def world. But Ho believes that consumers are starting to get interested in purchasing multiple high-def products for their households.

“More and more people are looking to get another HDTV,” said Ho. “Many have their first TV and are looking for their second. Many of those [for sale] will be 3-D-enabled. We are optimistic [about this market.]”
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post #58 of 80
9/15/09 at 10:00am
I was at the D23 event in anaheim this weekend and I saw two examples of Home 3-D.  One was the usual light analpragh 3-d that you see in the movies and the other one was the heavier shutter glasses.  both prototypical and both very good.  No prices as of yet though...
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post #59 of 80
9/24/09 at 9:21pm
Just curious, how bitrate friendly are these new 3-D technologies?  While I have seen demos, and have been really impressed, I don't want it to come at the expense of low bitrate 2-D encodes when they try to cram two versions on a single disc, especially since I probably won't have a 3-D system for a while.
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post #60 of 80
9/24/09 at 10:17pm
I would assume that watching the 2D version of the film would just display 1 of the stereo streams. Still, anyone thinking that doubling your video information isn't going to negatively effect picture quality on a feature length film is fooling themselves. Just one more reason the death of 3D on Blu-ray is just around the corner, IMO.
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