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El Cid & Fall of the Roman Empire Blue Ray Release in Germany

post #1 of 64
8/18/09 at 4:22am
Thread Starter 
Has anyone reviewed the blue ray release of these titles?
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post #2 of 64
8/18/09 at 6:05pm
If they're region-free, I will probably buy them.

Haven't seen a review yet either.


Cees
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post #3 of 64
8/19/09 at 2:25am
I have ordered them and I am pretty sure DannyN has, too.
I will report how they look once I get them and if they are region locked.

As they are most probably based on the Miriam collection DVDs I expect Fall of the Roman Empire to look rather good, about El Cid I am not so sure.

The German company that releases them has also released Time Bandits and that one at least did not seem to not suffer from excessive DNR and looked quite good except for a bit of edginess here and there so I hope they will continue to give us this kind of quality with those two releases, of course within the realm of the potential offered by the masters at hand.
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post #4 of 64
8/19/09 at 6:10pm
pre-ordered here too,
"in the name of Allah" :)
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post #5 of 64
8/20/09 at 1:28am
Usually, when those two titles are present, 55 Days at Peking cannot be far away....
Haven't seen it yet.


Cees
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post #6 of 64
8/20/09 at 6:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons View Post

Usually, when those two titles are present, 55 Days at Peking cannot be far away....
Haven't seen it yet.


Cees

You are an optmist I see, Mijnheer Alons. Alas, that wasn't the case when these two were released last year on standard DVD in the US. I do hope you're right. Have 55 days on laserdisc and DVD but will certainly spring for a BD.
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post #7 of 64
8/20/09 at 8:48am
I was afraid that they were postponed but my pre-order for both at amazon.de is at status "shipping soon" . With a little luck I will receive them on Saturday or otherwise early next week. I can't wait. Anthony Mann is one of my favourite directors and to see these two films in HD is a dream come true. I'll report back on the quality once I have them.
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post #8 of 64
8/20/09 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz Nilsen View Post




You are an optmist I see, Mijnheer Alons. Alas, that wasn't the case when these two were released last year on standard DVD in the US. I do hope you're right. Have 55 days on laserdisc and DVD but will certainly spring for a BD.
 

I have a PAL DVD of that film, since more than 2 years. Bought it together with EC and FotRE from the same distributor. As said: PAL, but a very reasonable transfer (and less than € 5).
I later bought the US versions of the latter two titles too).




Cees
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post #9 of 64
8/21/09 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons View Post

Usually, when those two titles are present, 55 Days at Peking cannot be far away....
Haven't seen it yet.


Cees


55 Days and Circus World were supposed to be part of the Miriam collection but with sales not so hot for the first two titles it seems they are now on the backburner.

As the HD masters seem to have been made only for the movies that were already released there is little chance at the moment to see 55 Days on Blu-Ray.
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post #10 of 64
8/23/09 at 1:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons View Post




I have a PAL DVD of that film, since more than 2 years. Bought it together with EC and FotRE from the same distributor. As said: PAL, but a very reasonable transfer (and less than € 5).
I later bought the US versions of the latter two titles too).




Cees

Yeah, I have the Nordic release of 55 in PAL anamorphic widescreen and mono 2.0. It's from one of those no-name, budget companies, Atlantic releasing. The colours are a bit faded, but otherwise a good tide-me-over. Probably the same transfer all over Europe, eh? Got it back in '04 for EUR4!  Hmmm... just noticed there's no EUR-key on my keyboard :-(
Edited by Fritz Nilsen - 8/23/09 at 11:55pm
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post #11 of 64
8/23/09 at 4:11am
€ = ALT (K0 K1 K2 K8)

K1 etc being the keys on your numeric keypad with NUMLOCK 'on'.
(So it's: press ALT, press 0128 successively on those keys, release ALT.)

Yes, I suppose that's the same one I bought, in 2004 or '05 indeed. Good price (  ), reasonable transfer, great film to own


Cees
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post #12 of 64
8/24/09 at 4:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by flagbrothers View Post

Has anyone reviewed the blue ray release of these titles?


Amazon.de have emailed me to say my copies have been despatched. Should have them within a few days.
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post #13 of 64
8/24/09 at 11:50am
I had written a much longer text originally but lost it due to one of these things that sometimes happen with PC's and the internet, so here is the short version:

I have now gotten both El Cid and Fall of the Roman Empire and members who do have Region A Blu-Ray player will probably be out of luck with these as my PC with Powerdvd 9 would not play them when set to Region A.

Regarding the quality the Blu-Rays are clearly from the same HD source as the DVDs that were released earlier in the Miriam collection so what we get is improved resolution for both chroma and luma compared to the DVDs, the color balance looks to be very much the same.

Seeing El Cid first I was a bit surprised that Weinstein dared to show this kind of quality in a cinematic setting last year. The colors, as with the DVD, are still very problematic and fine detail in faces, fabrics, rock or vegetation is not at the level it should be.
 
Contrary to the DVD versions of both films I did not feel that the Blu-Ray of Fall of the Roman Empire was much better than El Cid with regard to detail but as with DVD the color balance is improved. 
I had certainly hoped for more with this title if not for El Cid but the problem of pasty faces and other surfaces with the absence of fine detail remain and I found the forum scenes very much lacking because of this.

Those who want to replace his DVDs with the Blu-Ray will like that seemingly all the extras from the Weinstein editions have been ported over to the German Blu-Ray, plus there is also a digital copy with each movie and from looking through the extras listed on the Blu-Rays they are the same as the Weinstein editions.

As almost always these are still the versions to get for collectors that want the best that is currently available and the discs should provide a noticable upgrade for them despite their shortcomings. For others I would suggest a rental.


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post #14 of 64
8/24/09 at 1:41pm
Thank you Oliver. Somehow I hadn't really expected a lot from these discs but any marginal improvement for two of my all-time favourite films will be worthwhile.
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post #15 of 64
8/24/09 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas R View Post

Thank you Oliver. Somehow I hadn't really expected a lot from these discs but any marginal improvement for two of my all-time favourite films will be worthwhile.


Douglas, the improvements are not that marginal but given the nature of these movies with a photography that is one of the best ever there is a feeling of disappointment despite the improvements. So I am also keeping them - they are the best versions available of two movies that I like a lot.

Here are two comparison caps of the DVD (upscaled to 1920x1080 resolution) and the Blu-Ray of El Cid with panoramic shots where the differences are quite visible. I think I do not have to tell you which is which :)

















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post #16 of 64
8/25/09 at 6:58am
I hate to say this, but I wish that the rights holders would cease releasing these films, as they look nothing like they should, making it appear that the films were shot with several layers of vaseline on the lens.  The extant masters are best destroyed.  

Unfortunately, as examples are out there, they will not be forgotten, and some viewers may actually think that they are watching the films as created.

RAH
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post #17 of 64
8/25/09 at 7:24am
Received my copies today and have had a quick look. Certainly these films should look better (and I can still remember how great they looked when originally presented in 70mm) but nevertheless they have considerably more detail than their DVD counterparts. As Oliver says, they are the best versions available (probably the best versions we will ever have on disc?) and so I'm very pleased to have them. 
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post #18 of 64
8/25/09 at 8:39am
I received my copies today as well and also had a quick look on my laptop . They certainly look soft and the colours are off but compared to the DVDs I have owned (the French, Japanese and German, I skipped the Weinsteins) they are miles better. I'll watch El Cid tonight on my projector and if it's watchable on that I will be happy. I have no illusions anymore of seeing many classics on HD so I'll take what I can get (and am interested in), perfect or not, because I don't think I'll see a perfect release of these films in my lifetime anymore.
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post #19 of 64
8/25/09 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris View Post

I hate to say this, but I wish that the rights holders would cease releasing these films, as they look nothing like they should, making it appear that the films were shot with several layers of vaseline on the lens.  The extant masters are best destroyed.  

Unfortunately, as examples are out there, they will not be forgotten, and some viewers may actually think that they are watching the films as created.

RAH
 


I wish the rights holders would sell these movie to a big studio or some other entity or person that actually cares for them and goes back to the OCN for the next Blu-Ray incarnation.

Until this happens I do not see how the situation will improve and that is why I bought these versions. I fear this will be about as good as it gets for a long time for both El Cid and Fall of the Roman Empire unless I manage to catch a theatrical screening.
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post #20 of 64
8/25/09 at 11:03am
Reading Robert's comments is exactly how I feel right now and with these blu-ray releases feel we are getting further away from any chance of them being done properly.
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post #21 of 64
8/25/09 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen PI View Post

Reading Robert's comments is exactly how I feel right now and with these blu-ray releases feel we are getting further away from any chance of them being done properly.
 

With the current owners a proper Blu-Ray release would be a miracle - they did not even put out a proper DVD despite the fact that a DVD could have been produced cheaper and that there would have been more buyers, too.

Many of us have waited for over a decade for a proper DVD of El Cid that never was released and at some point we want to actually watch the movie. It is a sad reality that the DVD format exists since 1997 and that still we never got a proper representation of either El Cid or Fall with it.
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post #22 of 64
8/25/09 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK View Post

Many of us have waited for over a decade for a proper DVD of El Cid that never was released and at some point we want to actually watch the movie.
Exactly. I have now watched El Cid on my projector and while it is far from perfect it is perfectly watchable on my 2m screen. I'm very glad to have both these movies on BD. I doubt that we will get anything better anytime soon and I think it's a miracle that they even got a release at all with the way classics are selling.
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post #23 of 64
8/26/09 at 10:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris View Post

I hate to say this, but I wish that the rights holders would cease releasing these films, as they look nothing like they should, making it appear that the films were shot with several layers of vaseline on the lens.  The extant masters are best destroyed.  

Unfortunately, as examples are out there, they will not be forgotten, and some viewers may actually think that they are watching the films as created.

RAH
 


Robert,

continuing the thinking about what to do to get better versions of these movies out and given the fact that the current owners seem reluctant to spend any money on these movies I would like to ask you:

Do you think it is even feasible that some big studio would acquire these movies, rights, prints, negatives and all ?

And are there precedents where one could say that there is a kind of ballpark figure with regard to the costs for such a package deal that includes El Cid, FOTRE, 55 Days and Circus World ?

Thanks !

Oliver
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post #24 of 64
8/26/09 at 11:44am
I see that both these discs say on the packaging that they are from a new HD scan of the original restored negative. If that is indeed so, then surely they should look far better?
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post #25 of 64
8/26/09 at 5:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas R View Post

I see that both these discs say on the packaging that they are from a new HD scan of the original restored negative. If that is indeed so, then surely they should look far better?

This is of course not true at all. And the German distributor should know that, too as it was brought to their attention.

I am not sure if they already had printed the covers when that happened or not but at some point they knew that the masters were not derived from the original negatives.
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post #26 of 64
9/2/09 at 6:55am
DVD Beaver has screenshot comparisons of El Cid now:

www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews15/el_cid_dvd_review.htm

If it were not region locked, I'd order it.
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post #27 of 64
9/2/09 at 7:53am
The dvdbeaver review is misleading at best, attributing the image softness to the original print! It looks just as the dvd did - soft, waxy and unrepresentative of what should be a majestic looking film.

M
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post #28 of 64
9/2/09 at 9:56am
I can't tell if DVD Beaver is being purposely misleading or just woefully ignorant these days.  Whatever the case, their opinions are pretty useless to me, even if their caps still serve some limited purpose.
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post #29 of 64
9/2/09 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Arnette View Post

I can't tell if DVD Beaver is being purposely misleading or just woefully ignorant these days.  Whatever the case, their opinions are pretty useless to me, even if their caps still serve some limited purpose.
 

I think that the screencaps mostly speak for themselves for the experienced viewer and they have a lot of rare stuff that you do not find as easily on other sites (the fantastic Bruce Lee Blu-Rays for example).

Still El Cid is a bit too much and I have dropped Gary an e-mail.
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post #30 of 64
9/3/09 at 1:13pm
Oliver, has the sound been mastered in a lossless format?
I won't hold my breath that they now have a proper effects/ surround track!
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