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We Bought a New Prius

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
All week long we've been trying to find a 2010 Prius III that was blue or red and not black.  Sheesh, any Prius is in short supply now.  The dealer located a black one that was configured the way we wanted it, so we said do it and he was having it shipped in.

We went in last night to do the paperwork, including the clunkers program, and walking into the showroom we noticed a grey Prius parked on the lot.  We asked about it and it was a model II.  After realizing the only difference between the III and the III was a better sound system and bluetooth capability, we decided to get the grey and it's $700 less.  If we feel the need to upgrade the sound or add bluetooth, we've got a spare $700 to do it with.

There's no dickering on these things, all the dealers were quoting the same amount on the same configurations.  So that part was easy.  My wife drove it home (it'll be here car) and I kept watching the MPG indicator.  I noticed that ocassionally the MPG would hit 100.

It was not a selling point for us, but this one comes with XM radio and a free 6 month subscription so we'll be trying that out for the first time.  The business manager who handles the signing of the documents (and who happens to live with walking distance from us) told us he thought that CARS would run out of money this weekend, even with the added dollars.  I find that a little hard to believe.

We got $4500 for our '94 Jeep Grand Cherokee.
post #2 of 30
You guys are exactly who they're hoping for from this program; people going from a really fuel efficient hefty car or SUV to about as fuel efficient a car as you can get state side. I don't anticipate being able to buy a new car anytime soon, and my 95 Corolla wouldn't qualify for the rebate anyway. I think when I finally do, though, I'll be looking at a subcompact like the soon-to-be-relaunched Ford Fiesta which gets nearly as good mileage as the Prius but without the upfront costs of a hybrid.

Even though Cash for Clunkers seemed to run out virtually overnight, the dealerships had been stockpiling the rebates since the beginning of July. If it took over a month to blow through the first billion, the new $2 billion should last at least through September.

Let us know how you like the new car once you've had time to live with it for a while. I have friends with a Prius, and except for the high cost for repairs on the very rare occasion something breaks down, they absolutely love it.
post #3 of 30
I wanted to get in the clunkers program, but missed out by that much. I had a 89 Olds 98 that I wanted to trade in. It was originally rated at the 18mpg that is the maximum mpg for the program. Then the EPA recalculated everything and the car came in at 19mpg So instead of getting a new car I bought a 07 Saturn Ion. I am getting about 31mpg with it. Let us know what your MPG turns out in reality.
post #4 of 30
Ran into exactly the same thing.  Wanted to trade in a Chevy Venture.. when I bought it, it was rated at 17MPG when it was NEW.  Now, suddenly, it's 19MPG at the website, so doesn't qualify.  Not sure how an 10 year old vehicle got more fuel efficient, but whatever.
post #5 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt View Post

You guys are exactly who they're hoping for from this program; people going from a really fuel efficient hefty car or SUV to about as fuel efficient a car as you can get state side.

Let us know how you like the new car once you've had time to live with it for a while. I have friends with a Prius, and except for the high cost for repairs on the very rare occasion something breaks down, they absolutely love it.
According to news reports, the new cars being purchased get 8-10 mpg better than the clunker.  I don't think the clunker bill asks for much more than 2 miles better.  If the news reports are correct, I think that's a pretty good result.  We went for the Prius because I have a strong feeling that we will be seeing gas at $4 gallon and more within the not distant future.

Can you describe those high cost repairs and their frequency?  I was offered several options for extended warranties.
post #6 of 30
I don't think it was anything specific; just that more complicated insides means a more complicated repair job. They bring it primarily to the dealer for repairs; I can't remember if this was because they couldn't find an independent mechanic to work on it or if they didn't feel personally comfortable having an independent mechanic work on it. This has been a trend that's been ungoing for years as even traditional fuel cars have shifted from being purely mechanical machines to a complicated mix of the electronic and the mechanical. Hybrids, which have two systems for some key functions, take this to a new level. When a belt goes bad on my Corolla, for instance, I'll buy a new one at AutoZone and swap it out myself. I would be afraid to mess around under the hood with a hybrid.

If any of that sounds scary, however, from what they've told me, problems have been VERY rare. Toyotas in general have a deserved reputation for reliability, so this doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
post #7 of 30
I checked into the cash for clunkers program for my wife's 2000 Mercury Villager. It qualified for the $3,500 rebate, but we were able to sell the vehicle for that exact same amount, so we went that route instead.

Unfortunately, we are still awaiting delivery of her replacement vehicle, a Saturn Vue bought under the GM PEP program. It's been two months and we still do not have the vehicle yet. We keep getting delivery dates, yet the vehicle never arrives when promised.
post #8 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt View Post...from what they've told me, problems have been VERY rare. Toyotas in general have a deserved reputation for reliability, so this doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

My brother has had one for 4 years and they have 100K+ miles on it and have only done routine maintenance on it.  They've not had a single problem.  I found a Prius forum and have found a warranty from Toyota for about $1K.  Same length (7 years) as the dealer offered, but the dealer wanted $2K.
post #9 of 30
Thread Starter 
After about 16-17 days we (gasp), had to put gas in the Prius.  Got 50MPG.
post #10 of 30
One thing that the Prius has that I wish they'd implement with all cars is the MPG meter. It's constantly remind drivers of gas guzzlers how few miles they're getting to the gallon, and it would showcase how small changes in driving style can have a huge impact on MPG.
post #11 of 30
I've had a Honda Civic Hybrid since October 2002. It has 117,000+ miles on it now and has been very reliable. It never did get the 50 miles to the gallon that they advertised. The most I could get out of it was about 47mpg under extremely concentrating driving - meaning feathering the accelerator, not using the A/C and coasting as long as possible. The real world average MPG I've gotten is closer to 41 MPG which is not that much more than the regular Civic. Also with each upgrade of the computer I got at the Dealer over the years the MPG also declined on the Trip odometer meaning they must have known that the original figures were hard or impossible to obtain. I've noticed that the Civic Hybrid seems to have been replaced by the redesigned Insight that advertises only 42-43 MPG I think. I remember being confused by the MPG numbers I was getting from the trip odometer early on and the actual MPG numbers I was getting by multiplying the gallons at fill-up by miles driven. The trip odometer would read 48-52 MPG but the actual mathematical MPG was 39-42. I am now considering the Ford Hybrid SUV.
post #12 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowalski View Post

I am now considering the Ford Hybrid SUV.

GM advertizes that their Chevy gas-powered small crossover SUV, the "Equinox" I believe it is called, gets 1mpg better than the Ford Escape Hybrid!
post #13 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt View Post

One thing that the Prius has that I wish they'd implement with all cars is the MPG meter. It's constantly remind drivers of gas guzzlers how few miles they're getting to the gallon, and it would showcase how small changes in driving style can have a huge impact on MPG.
There's also a horizontal meter, something like a software progress bar, that tells you when  your driving in the sweet spot.  The two trip odometers show mpg and average speed for the duration of the trip odometer.  I wonder how accurate the overall mpg reading is because the car said 52mpg and I figured 50mpg for the duration the trip.
post #14 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Hamm View Post

GM advertizes that their Chevy gas-powered small crossover SUV, the "Equinox" I believe it is called, gets 1mpg better than the Ford Escape Hybrid!
The key to both is the transition from truck-body SUVs to lighter, crossover (car-body) SUVs -- basically larger, SUV-shaped station wagons. Still, hybrid SUVs are almost like an oxymoron, providing fuel economy comparable to a midsize sedan. I guess they make sense for people who need the extra space, though.
post #15 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowalski View Post

I've had a Honda Civic Hybrid since October 2002.

[snip]

The real world average MPG I've gotten is closer to 41 MPG which is not that much more than the regular Civic.

It's about 10 MPG better.
post #16 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Hamm View Post

GM advertizes that their Chevy gas-powered small crossover SUV, the "Equinox" I believe it is called, gets 1mpg better than the Ford Escape Hybrid!

I think the "Equinox" is one of the best SUVs to purchase. Its brake rotors are among the the highest quality for the lowest price you can get. (all right I will stop shamelessly plugging for my company)
post #17 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Angell View Post

After about 16-17 days we (gasp), had to put gas in the Prius.  Got 50MPG.

My 93 Ford Escort got 38 - 42 MPG on the highway. 16 years later and $10k more expensive, and the most advanced efficiency car on the planet improves over my bottom-of-the-line Ford by a meager 25%?

I hope that plug-in electrics bring significant advances to driving efficiencies. I can't get excited about Hybrids.
post #18 of 30
I dont know.  I mean I agree that hybrids are a stop-gap at best.  But 50mpg for mixed driving versus 40 for highway only isnt a bad increase.  I mean my car can get right at 28mpg highway only but only 20 mixed - Thats a pretty big difference.

I think thats more of a 48% increase in fuel efficency over the Escort.  I mean hybrids get their biggest bang for their buck in city driving.  So comparing higway driving only doesnt really do it when discussing hybrids.
post #19 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF View Post
My 93 Ford Escort got 38 - 42 MPG on the highway.
 My 2002 Ford Escort averaged 31MPG and that was all rural or interstate driving.  My father tells me that the 72VW beetle we had got around 50 MPG in New Jersey traffic. That is what confuses me about the "improved technoligy" or is it the EPA regulations?

Quote:
I mean I agree that hybrids are a stop-gap at best.
I agree. Currently how would you take an all electric car on vacation?
post #20 of 30
Thats damn good for a beetle.  I have a 71 Super and it got around 32 in its prime.  Currently around 25-28.

The only thing I see this all going is to fuel cells.  At least with the current technology that is available.  Batteries are simply not going to cut it as a long term long range solution.  As far as all electric is concerned - I have no idea (except the eccentric and rich) who will be paying $40,000 for a 50 mile range commuter-only vehicle.
post #21 of 30
Quote:
My father tells me that the 72VW beetle we had got around 50 MPG in New Jersey traffic.
 

I think your father's memory is somewhat hazy.  I had a 1971 Karman Ghia and it only got about 28 mpg highway - and I recall specifically that it got better mileage than a bug because the bug had much much worse aerodynamics.  Hitler's people's car was designed after all for farmers to drive at low speeds on country roads.

The best car I had for mileage was my 1959 Austin-Healey "Bugeye" Sprite.  With 1275 cc engine and taller rear end it once got 46 mpg on a trip from San Jose CA to Mt. Hood OR and back.
post #22 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Nicholls View Post

I think your father's memory is somewhat hazy. 

That could very well be. But still my Escort was getting about 10mpg less that DaveF's Escort manufactured 9 years earlier.
post #23 of 30
I still say Ford,GM and Dodge need to release a "Classics" line of vehicles. For example, build exact models, not modern day interpretations, of the 65-68 Mustang, Camero and Firebird, the Bumblebee and Roadrunner with the same interiors and body as they originally came out with. Only put them on a modern day chasis with modern day engines. I know they would sell a boat load of them and I bet they would get great gas mileage to boot. Or take it even further and build them with electric engines. I would love to see an all electric version of the '67 Stang, '68 Camero, '69 Impala, '69 Olds 442.......

We have a 2009 Prius and love it. It averages around 45 miles per gallon highway and city. I also have a 2010 Mazda 3 and it averages around 28 in town and highway. I think the new Volt is a great idea but at $50,000 it is going to be a hard sell even though it will get great average mileage all the way around.

If the Telsa S was in the $35,000 range I know which line I would be in.
post #24 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker Clack View Post

I still say Ford,GM and Dodge need to release a "Classics" line of vehicles. For example, build exact models, not modern day interpretations, of the 65-68 Mustang, Camero and Firebird, the Bumblebee and Roadrunner with the same interiors and body as they originally came out with. Only put them on a modern day chasis with modern day engines. I know they would sell a boat load of them and I bet they would get great gas mileage to boot. Or take it even further and build them with electric engines. I would love to see an all electric version of the '67 Stang, '68 Camero, '69 Impala, '69 Olds 442.......

...

If the Telsa S was in the $35,000 range I know which line I would be in.
If any $100k elite sports car was in the $35k range, I know I'd want it too!


As for the domestics: admitting they've lost all design ability and resurrecting the ghosts of 40 years ago might or might now sell cars. (At risk of completely derailing this thread ) what they need to do seems apparent to everyone but them: build cars that last and price them competitively. I watch and talk with peers, us Gen X'ers who now are mid-career, with family, and buy $20k - $40k cars. We don't buy "domestic". I think they've lost a generation or two, and will take 5-10 years to recover, if they can. Even if, say,  today's Taurus is every bit the equal to a Camry, we're not going to believe it for a decade, after it's proven itself. "Initial quality" is a joke. Everything is great the first day. What matters is how much time is wasted in the mechanic's shop two years later.
post #25 of 30
Mazda has produced an updated Lotus Elan, and has done rather well by it. 

Parker, why not get one of these?  They are still available, although, having owned one, they are somewhat impractical.

post #26 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF View Post

If any $100k elite sports car was in the $35k range, I know I'd want it too!


As for the domestics: admitting they've lost all design ability and resurrecting the ghosts of 40 years ago might or might now sell cars. (At risk of completely derailing this thread ) what they need to do seems apparent to everyone but them: build cars that last and price them competitively. I watch and talk with peers, us Gen X'ers who now are mid-career, with family, and buy $20k - $40k cars. We don't buy "domestic". I think they've lost a generation or two, and will take 5-10 years to recover, if they can. Even if, say,  today's Taurus is every bit the equal to a Camry, we're not going to believe it for a decade, after it's proven itself. "Initial quality" is a joke. Everything is great the first day. What matters is how much time is wasted in the mechanic's shop two years later.

 


My brother-in-law owns a domestic make and it hasn't seen the inside of a mechanic's shop, other than for regular maintenance, in the entire time he has owned it. The car is more than 5 years old. I think the old saw that domestic makes are of poor quality is just that....an old saw. The fit, finish and reliability of domestic cars has improved quite a bit. The main reason I went with a Japanese car (Acura) is due to the fact that I think the designs of most domestic cars are boring compared to Japanese or European makes; although, I have to admit being partial to the new Dodge Challenger. I think that car looks sharp. GM also has finally succeeded in making a Corvette that isn't ugly like a lot of their previous versions were.

The Volt looks like an interesting concept, but 50 grand is just too far up the price ladder for me to ever seriously consider it. I'm also not really partial to that chunky look. It reminds me too much of the Chrysler design philosophy that went in to cars such as the 300C and the Charger. Also, I don' t think electric vehicles would be very practical where I live. It gets pretty cold up here, so I'm sure the range of any such vehicle would be seriously affected due to shortened battery life.
post #27 of 30
I think the problem Dave is really referring to is many of us in their 20's and 30's are simply not looking at domestics because of what we grew up hearing - that US cars suck.  I am not saying they do, but its what we heard.  That coupled with a crapload of just ugly vehicles that ended up on rental lots didnt help.  And those cars on those rental lots were many of our only experiences with domestic vehicles (they rattled, had interiors of all plastic (nothing soft to the touch except the seats), had louder cabins, felt unsubstantial when closing a door, and no matter how small the car was you still felt like you were driving a boat).

Couple that with a generation that EXPECTS cars to last till 150,000 without an ounce of trouble and the US market has a continued stigma of crap cheap feeling cars - Because when trying to decide on a car, most people dont look at reliability histories just at the past two years - they want to know how that model has faired over the past 6-8 years.

I would say in my view, the only vehicle that has escaped this view, is a Ford truck.  And I dont even know why I think that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S View Post





My brother-in-law owns a domestic make and it hasn't seen the inside of a mechanic's shop, other than for regular maintenance, in the entire time he has owned it. The car is more than 5 years old. I think the old saw that domestic makes are of poor quality is just that....an old saw. The fit, finish and reliability of domestic cars has improved quite a bit. The main reason I went with a Japanese car (Acura) is due to the fact that I think the designs of most domestic cars are boring compared to Japanese or European makes; although, I have to admit being partial to the new Dodge Challenger. I think that car looks sharp. GM also has finally succeeded in making a Corvette that isn't ugly like a lot of their previous versions were.

The Volt looks like an interesting concept, but 50 grand is just too far up the price ladder for me to ever seriously consider it. I'm also not really partial to that chunky look. It reminds me too much of the Chrysler design philosophy that went in to cars such as the 300C and the Charger. Also, I don' t think electric vehicles would be very practical where I live. It gets pretty cold up here, so I'm sure the range of any such vehicle would be seriously affected due to shortened battery life.

 
post #28 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF View Post




My 93 Ford Escort got 38 - 42 MPG on the highway. 16 years later and $10k more expensive, and the most advanced efficiency car on the planet improves over my bottom-of-the-line Ford by a meager 25%?

I hope that plug-in electrics bring significant advances to driving efficiencies. I can't get excited about Hybrids.

25% is meager?  10K more expensive?  Are you just comparing the published sticker price or factoring in inflation?  After all, it is 16 years later.  How do emissions compare between the two cars?
post #29 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF View Post

If any $100k elite sports car was in the $35k range, I know I'd want it too!


The Tesla S is the 4-door family car slated for ~2012 release.  It's supposed to start "around" $50k.

I also think it's odd when most folks compare their very best highway mileage in a regular car to the so-so actuals for hybrids.  If you want a car that tops out highway mileage, a small diesel car is your choice.  If you need a car that does very well in city/suburb commuting situations, hybrids are a lot more attractive.  If you're buying a hybrid to top out highway mileage, you're doing it wrong.:)
post #30 of 30
Ah, I didn't realize the "S" was the "sedan" over the sports car.

And I was comparing normal highway of a bottom-tier, compact car to the normal highway of the most advanced fuel-efficiency car to date.

I have no gripe with anyone buying a Prius, or other Hybrid: it's the best gas mileage you can buy. But from an product evolution perspective, I find it disappointing that an el-cheapo Escort from a decade ago competes with Toyota's most advanced tech for highway mileage.
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