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post #31 of 45
10/27/09 at 7:48pm
looking forward to the review =). i'm interested in upgrading my older BD copy if it's a TRUE remaster of the film source, not just some digital adjustments.
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post #32 of 45
10/27/09 at 9:10pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlo Medina View Post

The encoding according to my PS3 is VC-1, though.

 


 

That's very interesting, Carlo, because the Panasonic (BD-50) is definitely reporting AVC.

Unlike Warner, which is predictably VC-1, or Sony, which is predictably AVC, Lionsgate has been known to use both codecs. So either one is possible, but it's strange that the hardware is reporting different results. You would think this would be a fairly straightforward matter.

I suppose we should be grateful it's one or the other and not MPEG-2.

Edited by Michael Reuben - 10/27/09 at 11:31pm
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post #33 of 45
10/27/09 at 9:54pm

No joke, either one (especially at higher bit rates) is better than MPEG-2!


FYI here are the numbers on the inner ring (viewed from the playing side of the disc) of my Stargate 15th anniversary BD, maybe you can compare them to yours? I wouldn't expect Lionsgate to use 2 different encodes simultaneously but you never know...

M5 A026267.1.B VD01
M5 A026267.1.A VE03   <- this number is backwards (actually mirrored/reversed) above the previous number

And I did check both the DC and TE cuts and they're both reporting as VC-1 on my PS3 (firmware 3.01).
 

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post #34 of 45
10/27/09 at 11:31pm
You're gonna love this. As best as I can make out (because these are among the hardest to read of all the numbers I've seen on a Blu-ray ring), here's what my copy says:

1025695_1F11.OADD C4EB.PA01
1025695_1F11.OADD C4EB.PB01  (not mirrored, reversed or backwards)

Ready for more? I checked with Adam Gregorich, who coordinates for all the reviewers here and has a second copy. I had not yet seen this post about the numbers, but I did ask him to check the codec on his copy, and everything on it is AVC except for the DTS trailer (VC-1) and the menu (MPEG-2).  So mystery continues.

Anyway, I need to get some sleep so I can finish the review in the morning.
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post #35 of 45
10/28/09 at 7:37am
Just out of curiosity, what machine is Adam using for playback? Maybe my PS3 is simply displaying the wrong codec? Would be interested to see what his disc numbers are...

I purchased my copy from Best Buy yesterday morning in West Los Angeles. I wonder if there are regional differences due to perhaps different manufacturing plants?

EDIT - Yikes, I just thought of something more insidious...do you think companies might be shipping out different products to reviewers than what makes it on the final shelf? I'm thinking of the situations where DVD Beaver's shots recently have been very different from what customers actually experience? I've never been a screenshot judge kind of guy but I remember when Beaver's screenshots were almost a perfect match to what I saw onscreen and in the last few months or so he's captured some screens that did not jive with the product I bought...

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post #36 of 45
10/28/09 at 8:11am
Adam has several machines. I believe he used one of his Panasonics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlo Medina View Post

I purchased my copy from Best Buy yesterday morning in West Los Angeles. I wonder if there are regional differences due to perhaps different manufacturing plants?

 

That's a likely scenario -- much more so than the notion that reviewers are getting some sort of "special" copy, an arrangement requiring a degree of refined planning that, in my experience, most large organizations can't manage.

Still, different plants would explain a different UPC, but not a different encode. That kind of things costs money (and makes no sense). I've included a notation in the review, which should be posted in the next hour.

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post #37 of 45
10/28/09 at 9:21am
Lionsgate released The Descent with two different codecs..originally in AVC, then MPEG-2.  May be a different issue, but just saying.
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post #38 of 45
10/28/09 at 9:36am

Quote:
 Yikes, I just thought of something more insidious...do you think companies might be shipping out different products to reviewers than what makes it on the final shelf?

I can't see this happening.  Making two versions would cost a lot, and what would be the point, especially if one is better quality?  After getting Michael's email I tried it on a Panasonic DMP-B15 (essentially a BD-60).  I also have a BD-30, a BD-50 and an Oppo BD-83.  I wonder if the PS3 doesn't update the codec on its display after it first analyzes it?  For instance if you hit the info button during the film does it show VC-1 because that's what was at the start (DTS Logo)?  I left it up and saw it change from MPEG2 (menu), to VC-1 (DTS Logo), to AVC (feature).  My numbers match Michael's.  I can see them being produced in multiple plants, but it would be too expensive to work off multiple encodes.  If you skip the movie and go to the first special feature what does it show?  Mine showed AVC.
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post #39 of 45
10/28/09 at 9:44am
I'll try it out when I get home.

I do know in the past the PS3 would show different codecs, i.e. the trailers preceding would show MPEG-2 and then the feature would show VC-1 or AVC. I'll post what I find out tonight.
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post #40 of 45
10/28/09 at 12:31pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Reuben View Post

Still, different plants would explain a different UPC, but not a different encode.
 

They might explain different numbers on the disc itself, but they wouldn't explain different UPCs on the outer box. ;)
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post #41 of 45
10/28/09 at 7:04pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlo Medina View Post

1. Seems to be a new transfer based on the lessened gate weave of the opening credits.
3. Subtitles for the Egyptian language at the beginning of the film (and the foreign alien language later in the film) now start appropriately...however they are player generated subs instead of the original burned in subs, which is too bad because I like the look of the original subtitle fonts better.
4. DTS HD track often exceeds 5MBps which actually trips up my PS3 in the sense that when I FF or REW it takes an additional fraction of a second to a second to resume audio (PCM out) whereas lower bit rate soundtracks have audio resume immediately. This also happens on another high audio bit rate BD for me: John Mayer's Where The Light Is. I think that's a 24/96 PCM track that edges towards 7-8MBps if I remember correctly.
 


1- Yes, it's a brand new transfer, done earlier this year
3- The subtitles are actually burned into picture, not player generated... (but see below)
4- You have no control over DTS HD encoding, it does the bitrate as high as possible to make it lossless.  The spec allows it to reach about 20MBps I believe...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Reuben View Post

It took forever to get a review copy, but I can tell you this much on a quick glance: The encoding is AVC, and a lot of the extras are new. I'm going to try to have the review up tomorrow, but there's a lot to get through.

Is yours a retail package, or a check disc?  If check disc, from what replicator?  Sounds like a Deluxe disc based on the hub IDs (is there a Catalog number printed on the label side?)...  I think the retail replication was done at Sony...

The entire disc should be VC1...  Trailers, menu, feature, everything.  Not one AVC or Mpeg2 asset was created for it...

But I do know Lionsgate had a second facility working on it (I assumed for the Canadian release or something), if there really is an AVC version out there, that might have something to do with it.  I'd _really_ like to know what version people are actually getting from stores.  What does your main menu look like?

I'm really curious about this...


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post #42 of 45
10/28/09 at 7:32pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlo Medina View Post

No joke, either one (especially at higher bit rates) is better than MPEG-2!


FYI here are the numbers on the inner ring (viewed from the playing side of the disc) of my Stargate 15th anniversary BD, maybe you can compare them to yours? I wouldn't expect Lionsgate to use 2 different encodes simultaneously but you never know...

M5 A026267.1.B VD01
M5 A026267.1.A VE03   <- this number is backwards (actually mirrored/reversed) above the previous number
And I did check both the DC and TE cuts and they're both reporting as VC-1 on my PS3 (firmware 3.01).
 


Okay, I just confirmed with another friend of mine that bought the disc here in Hollywood as well, these numbers are the actual disc in stores.  Deluxe didn't do the replication for retail (they have a facility that will pound out a stack of check discs in a few hours which is frequently used for testing discs).  My disc a Deluxe checkdisc, but it's got an even different set of numbers...  :)  But I'd expect that since I know it was just a quick run for testing purposes...

As for it being AVC and having some kind of BD-Live connectivity, I have no idea.  We didn't put any internet connectivity on the disc at all...

Another thing that's different than most Lionsgate titles is that it plays the trailers FIRST, and then loads the menus. 

Michael- does yours show the loading icon at insert, or after the trailers?  There's obviously two different versions in existence, and two completely different video encodes...  I don't know what the logic was here, but the VC-1 version is the version in stores now...  Either the AVC version is technically for a different market, or was a test project by another facility, or is possibly going to eventually replace the one in stores...  No idea.  I really don't know why they would send that version for review when it's completely different than the one in stores...



Edited by Rik1138 - 10/28/09 at 9:06pm
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post #43 of 45
10/28/09 at 8:37pm
Rik-
Sorry your first post was caught in the spam filter.  I have released it so it now appears. 

Quote:
Deluxe didn't do the replication for retail (they have a facility that will pound out a stack of check discs in a few hours which is frequently used for testing discs).  My disc a Deluxe checkdisc, but it's got an even different set of numbers...  :)  But I'd expect that since I know it was just a quick run for testing purposes...
Makes sense, but why would they run a completely seperate encode, unless they were reusing one that Studio Canal had?

Quote:
does yours show the loading icon at insert, or after the trailers?  There's obviously two different versions in existence, and two completely different video encodes... 

Loading icon, lionsgate logo, trailers, then main menu.  I also got a checking for updates screen before I got the loading icon, which indicates some form of BD Live, but I couldn't find any other BD Live features in the menu. 

Quote:
Is yours a retail package, or a check disc?  If check disc, from what replicator?  Sounds like a Deluxe disc based on the hub IDs (is there a Catalog number printed on the label side?)... 
This is full retail packaging, complete with disc artwork and the cardboard sleeve.  The fine print on the front of the disc reads:

"C 1994 Le StudioCanal.  All Rights Reserved.  Cat No. 26267 Widescreen 26267.1.A All Regions US Rated PG-13 130 Mins.  Lions Gate Films Inc.  No Copying.  Subject to Applicable Laws"
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post #44 of 45
10/28/09 at 9:57pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich View Post

Loading icon, lionsgate logo, trailers, then main menu.  I also got a checking for updates screen before I got the loading icon, which indicates some form of BD Live, but I couldn't find any other BD Live features in the menu. 

This is full retail packaging, complete with disc artwork and the cardboard sleeve.  The fine print on the front of the disc reads:

"C 1994 Le StudioCanal.  All Rights Reserved.  Cat No. 26267 Widescreen 26267.1.A All Regions US Rated PG-13 130 Mins.  Lions Gate Films Inc.  No Copying.  Subject to Applicable Laws"
 

Adam, we're running on parallel tracks.

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post #45 of 45
10/28/09 at 11:52pm
Choo Choo
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Stargate 15th Anniversary Edition [Blu-ray]
$10.26 at
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