Steve Sansweet talks BD 6 film Star Wars and more - Page 3

I know about where they were stored because it is stated in the book Industrial Light and Magic: The Art of Special Effects. And restated in The Making of Star Wars: The Definitive Story Behind The Original Film.  ILM retains the negatives of every project they work on.

I never said there aren't sources that are better than the laserdisc transfer. I said that isn't typically how transfers are done. The Laserdiscs were likely created from a low con IP, which may or may not still exist.

Again I didn't say it was lost. It’s likely that the original cut could be recreated from the OCN. It's simply that the owner doesn't want to do that.

Doug

No I didn't say source materials, I said prints. Prints are not source materials except as a last resort. Of course they did. The OCN was used for the special edition, so its obviously in good enough shape to work with.

Doug

If prints are source materials as a last resort, then they ARE source materials. What we are discussing here is the worst case, namely that everything is gone, and that theatrical prints are the best sources left for a transfer. Actually, I don't believe for one second that this is actually true.

If they want something to be resurrected, they CAN do it, as being proved by he 2006 DVD.

I don't even request a restoration for the original films. Just a transfer from the best surviving elements they have in their vault. Grainy shots during optical composites? No problem, don't bother with this. Just the original trilogy preserved as authentically to its original presentation as possible. That's exactly what high definition formats were made for.

You could even make a cool featurette out of it, explaining how the original effects were done and how they compare with the cgi shots. Perhaps make it a featurete about the origin and evolution of special effects at ILM. SO MANY opportunities have been wasted with the 2004 release, there are lots of possibilities for interesting extras for an upcoming Blu Ray release.

I have no doubt that the original could be constructed from the OCN. The thing is you seem to be looking for a reason to say to Lucas, "There isn't an excuse anymore, you can release the originals". Well he doesn't need an excuse. He just doesn't want to.

I suspect you'll have to be satisfied with the laserdisc transfers, at least until Lucas dies and someone else gains control of the films.

Doug

As I said before, I don't need a restoration from the OCN. A transfer from the best surviving elements would be fully okay with me. With grain and everything.
I am still puzzled by your motivation to speak for Mr. Lucas in this thread.

If Lucasfilm doesn't need an excuse for not releasing the original films then they should just STOP MAKING ridiculous excuses. Just be honest and say: no, we don't want you to have the original versions. Because because.

Technically and financially, there ARE NO excuses for this not to happen. Most of the fans want the original versions included. It's a standard procedure nowadays to provide different versions of a single film in a home video release. The upcoming Blu Ray set is the best possibility for Lucasfilm to finally catch up with what other companies have been doing on much "less commercially succesful" films.

In 2004, you would have said that the originals would NEVER EVER reappear on DVD. Not only did they appear on DVD 2 years later, thanks to the never ending complains of fans, but they added the 1977 opening crawl made from a new transfer. What was that again in 1995, when they claimed that the THX release would be the last time the originals could be purchased?

All I would like to see for Star Wars on Blu Ray are the same standards than Close Encounters of the Third Kind and Bladerunner.

Edited by Oliver_A - 8/3/2009 at 02:02 am GMT

I'm not speaking for anyone but myself. However the paranoia surrounding Star Wars gets old after a while.

I believe Lucas has stated repeatedly that the Special Editions are THE versions of the film. If he chooses to further refine them so be it. Personally I'd like to see him upgrade Jabba in A New Hope. He still looks like crap.

I would not say never, just that its unlikely.

Doug

Do you think that I am happy about this situation?

Man, it's just releasing 2 (3?) different versions of one film on a disc set. Nothing special anymore. Except Star Wars of course. They should just do what's necessary and finally bring peace and order to the fanbase.
The best thing to deal with this situation was on the Bladerunner 5 disc set. Every version had an introduction by Ridley Scott, where he states his opinion on every cut. They could do it the same way.

Film start: "Hello folks, this is George Lucas. The  films you are about to see are NOT my preferred versions. However, we have realized that lots of fans like them for nostalgic reasons, so we have included them. See what YOU think!"

Face saved, everything is ok, all Star Wars fans are happy and can finally enjoy them together again. World peace breaks out, the financial crisis is gone, a cure for cancer has been found...

I think world peace, financial stability and a cure for cancer are more likely than happy Star Wars fans.

I, for one, am glad to see Sansweet talking about the original making of- documentaries getting a release someday. There are at least four that are quite good: 1977's Making of Star Wars, 1980's SPFX: The Empire Strikes Back, 1983's Classic Creatures: Return of the Jedi, and 1984's From Star Wars To Jedi: The Making of a Saga. All saw release on home video in the VHS age, but never on DVD.

BTW, Lucasfilm should take note that similar releases exist for Raiders and the Indy films, including The Making of Raiders, and Great Movie Stunts.

All of these have interviews with the cast and crew and are narrated by one of the principles.

Pretty much what I was thinking. 

I believe it was mentioned by RAH himself that he essentially has a standing offer to Lucasfilm to work his magic on the Star Wars OT. The fact that he hasn't been taken up on this tells me that Lucas simply doesn't want this to happen. Too bad, considering the amazing job RAH did on The Godfather Trilogy. Could you imagine an OOT with nearly that quality on BD? 

This does sadden me, as I just recently re-watched The Empire Strikes Back SE and the missing "Bring my shuttle" line really took me out of the movie. One of my favorite lines of the trilogy, delivered brilliantly by Jones (conveying the pissed-off'edness of Vader in three simple, terse words), tossed aside so that Lucas could use the new line to preface the new Tiderian Shuttle scene he animated. Should have left well enough alone as the original line would have done just fine.
[/end circular argument]

Why do you think that? All I want is the 1977, 1980 and 1983 versions of the Star Wars films in some sort of anamorphic digital format. Is that REALLY unreasonable, Travis?

What if someone altered 3 of YOUR favorite films and then made the originals unavailable in the most current/modern video format?

I mean, I hate to state the obvious, but isn't part of the reason this site exists to get unreleased/OOP films released on quality home video?



Perfectly reasonable. That'd be ok with me, too.



Edited by MielR - 8/4/2009 at 05:35 am GMT

Hear, hear.

Personally, give me the 'final cuts' - if such a beast could ever exist! - in 1080p and 7.1 uncompressed sound. Give me a picture and sound remaster that has the same care, attention and love given to it as the Doctor Who DVDs, not something less that will do (i.e. some of the Star Trek films). Give me cuts that correct the mistakes of previous releases - green lightsaber in Star Wars - and that aren't rushed, so that finally everything that Lucas isn't happy with technically is fixed. Give me all the previous documentaries, both historic and those more recently produced. Give me deleted scenes; they should never have been left off the 2004 DVD release. Give me the original theatrical versions to the maximum quality possible that keeps the set economically-priced (by which I mean, if it doubles the price then forget it).

And finally, a wish for a particular change - improve the jarring musical edits made to match the visual changes. The 'Bring my shuttle' scene is the most jarring of all - it isn't beyond the wit of man to take the original 'Bring my shuttle' line, then cut to a new CGI longshot of Vader walking down the landing gantry towards the shuttle landing, over which the "Alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival" line can be tracked if need be (although that always struck me as an odd line - what were they doing on the Executor, sitting around playing poker and smoking questionable substances?!?). The original music has a couple of 'swirling strings' moments that can be looped so that the original music flow can be maintained, and everyone's happy.

And as for the extended SE credits of Jedi, do NOT take the shortened theatrical version of the music and loop some of it! Use the full-length music as per the soundtrack album, please!

Now if Lucasfilm can deliver all that, I'll be (a) amazed, and (b) able to die a happier man. Once I've watched it all, of course.

Not in the least and I'd love to see the same thing. I just think that there's a sad element of the Star Wars fanbase that have turned the movies into some kind of a burden in their lives to the point of where if they didn't have anything to complain about, they wouldn't have anything to say about them.

When I read that line I imagined Rex (from Rex Kwon Do, Napoleon Dynamite) talking about "and the Wisdom of Man..."

You really should distinguish between Star Wars fans and their various beefs and plain movie fans who just want to see 3 old movies get a proper transfer. This forum isn't a Star Wars club.

What's the difference? If you're a fan of the Star Wars films I think you're automatically a part of the SW fanbase. It makes no sense to say you like the films, but you're only a movie fan and not a SW fan.

The problem is that the treatment of the original versions by Lucasfilm basically split the fanbase and created lots of bad blood. It's frustrating for most Star Wars fans to see that with any other film, where multiple versions exist, they just included them into the same set, in most cases with no or hardly noticeable differences in picture and sound between the different versions. Even in the case of films which did not do well at the box-office (like Legend).

For me, it's hardly any "burden", just a huge annoyance every time those 3 films are getting a new home video release. I was equally annoyed when E.T. was re-released in theaters with those cgi changes. But Universal did the right thing and released BOTH versions on DVD, so there is no need to bitch. I payed the extra money to own the original version in very good picture quality (plus a nice additional documentary on the third disc) and everything is okay.

I agree that all those personal attacks on George Lucas are rather childish. However, I stand by my opinion that he most probably doesn't like the first three films very much and that this is the reason why the DVD release left a lot to be desired. On the other hand, the THX 1138 DVD was done with much more care, you can feel that this film is much closer to his heart, though, again, he could not bring himself to release it without further changes. It's not Lucas bashing, but just an observation I would have done with any other filmmaker.

I just want to have a choice to see the films the way I did when I was a kid. Plus, I genrally detest the attempt to "modernize" old films, not only Star Wars. I think films don't need "fixing", they are what they are, deeply linked to the time period they were made in. Again, if Star Wars would have been made in 1997, it would have been a COMPLETELY different film.

If someone has a different opinion and likes the changes, perfect. But what we need here is a bit more tolerance towards other people's tastes. And I don't see anything wrong with being upset about not being able to purchase the original versions in good qualiy.

It's like someone decides that chocolate and vanilla ice cream won't be produced anymore, and the only flavour still available is strawberry, because that's the favorite flavour of the only ice cream producer in the world. What do I do when I hate strawberry? Do you think that arguing with me or patronizing me will change that?

It's exactly the same with this idiotic policy of denying fans the original versions, although there is obviously a demand. It makes absolutely no sense. I think Lucasfilm should just start to listen to their fanbase, and catch up with other studios and filmmakers, which apparently do know much better how to please their fans.

So, nothing personal against others here. But I am just sick of legitimating my wish of having the original version in good quality to other Star Wars fans.

I specifically said that I was talking about an "element of the Star Wars fanbase" so that does distinguish between the two. Or at least, it does in my mind.

I said it before but once again, I think the people asking for an edge enhancement-less transfer on The Phantom Menace or the audio in the proper surround channels on A New Hope or the original original trilogy are more than reasonable in their requests.

The problem is, you do not realize that it's not up to you to decide for others what requests are "reasonable" and "not reasonable". Is it unreasonable that fans just want the original versions commercially available in good quality? I mean, we are not even talking about prices, I would GLADLY pay the extra money for such a thing. And please, don't come with "oh, but it's financially not feasible". BS. Just look at releases of other, commercially much less succesful films.

Show a bit more tolerance.

I have the making of Raiders and Star Wars pulled from old laserdisc copies, but I'd love to see them put on blu-ray with the movies.
There was also a NOVA pbs special in the late 80s which covered the effects of the Star Wars and Indy films called Nova: the magic of special effects. I'd like to see that on one of these releases also.
Doug

For the third time in as many posts, I do not think it's unreasonable for anyone to want a quality version of the OT. And obviously, I'm not the final arbiter of what is and isn't reasonable, I'm just giving my opinion on the topic. Oddly, it doesn't seem to really clash with yours but you seem determined to argue with anything I say.

Nevermind, I have obviously misread your post, and for that I apologize.

No sweat. As a big Star Wars fan, I know that we can get real passionate because of love for the movies.

You'd think if there was anyone on the planet who could convince George to let RAH remaster the films it would be his mentor Coppola. All he'd have to say is "George, look at what he did with my films and think what he could do if you let him take a pass at yours".

After what I saw on the THX-1138 DVD, I fear Lucas is beyond giving a damn anymore.

The changes there aren't even mentioned. Unlike the Star Wars special editions, there are no credits for those who created the new scenes. I presume it was ILM?

In the making of documentary, Lucas talks about how they used real locations to create his futuristic underground world, over a shot of a CGI cityscape! Are we supposed to think that effect was achieved back in 1970?

I sent an email to TCM regarding THX, to complain they made no mention of the alterations to the film when they aired it. At least for accuracy's sake, they should let the viewers know that this film is not totally a product of the 1970's. A bunch of us also wrote to AFI and got them to remove the "1977" from their Star Wars listing when they included the Special Edition as part of a festival. Imagine a film student trying to trace the progression & artistry of film effects, while trying to make sense out of a 1970's film with 1990's FX.

YouTube has been a real eye-opener for me. It's disturbing how many young people don't even know that the versions of the SW films they're familiar with aren't the first versions of the films, and that there were other versions that existed for 14-20 years before they were changed. I'm doing my best to educate them. 

As far as a future Blu-Ray release goes, the only thing I really want (besides the original versions of the films) are the deleted scenes that we see so many snippets of in the various trailers. For example- the Wampa sub-plot footage from ESB & Luke and Leia's first kiss (interrupted by 3P0) in his recovery room, the sandstorm scene from Jedi, and whatever exists (if anything) of the "lightsaber construction" scene from Jedi (that Mark Hamill now says he wasn't involved in), plus, whatever other cut scenes are around. An uncut version of the Biggs scene that was included in the SW SE would be nice, too.

I'd also like to see the Biggs/Tatooine scenes get a better release than the blocky CD-rom versions that were released. A more comprehensive collection of trailers would be great, as well. The DVDs left some of the best ones out (some of which were included on the Definitive Collection LD set).

Yeah you'd think...

Except if there is one thing that's become clear in the years since his ascension, it's that Lucas has become less and less interested in outside influences when it comes to "his babies".

The whole exercise of the changes in the OT, along with subsequent rationalizations and flat-our rewriting of the history of the creation of the OT to justify changes he recently made to them, just smacks of someone who did not like that though he was the creator of Star Wars, it became a collaborative (and at times very contentious) project. The outcomes are what we saw onscreen in 1977, 1980 and 1983.

As is with the case with every film ever created, his vision was not 100% intact. There were sacrifices, compromises and changes made. As with every film.

But unlike 99.99% of the filmmakers who release projects "warts and all" and learn to live with (and some to eventually love) the results, Lucas now has the power, clout and ability to go back and attempt to erase anything that didn't jive with his original vision (and to conform with whatever new visions he has had in the intervening years).

It's analogous to those old relationships we've all had that are over, and we learn to live with the outcomes and eventually come to some sort of peace with the outcome. He has the ability to go back and erase all of the heartaches and arguments, and only leave the good memories intact. Kind of "Eternal Sunshine"ish now that I think about it. 

Regardless of what GL wants to do to the films in terms of changes, he should still want them to look as good as humanly possible and that's why he'd be foolish not to employ the services of RAH. All he has to do is look at the man's body of work and see that he could restore the films better than anyone else ever could. In this scenario it's not about changing his vision or anything like that, it's just about putting out a quality presentation....which is something Lowry failed at big time in 2004. All you have to do is look at the ridiculous lightsaber colors in ESB and ROTJ to see that much better work needs to be done.

I read an article a while back about the relationship between Lucas and Spielberg. One thread that ran throughout it is that Lucas has become increasingly insular over the years - using his money and power to do exactly as he likes, with little interest in the input of others. Spielberg, on the other hand, has remained collaborative - often seeking out the opinions of others and synthesizing and incorporating the ideas of others into his own work.

Obviously, that's just one particular author's take on it, but it sure seemed to ring true to me.



The problem is, with films that are constantly in flux and thus never 'finished' in any definitive sense, how can you say that any of those changes are 'mistakes' - really, they're just another set of changes.

Lucas' constant tinkering has taken on an Owellian feel - "the light sabers are pink...the light sabers have always been pink".