The Fugitive: Season 3 Volume 1 - Page 3

John, I salute you for so accurately and astutely conveying my feelings on this issue.




Gary "I agree that CBS/Paramount should view Season 2 as an experiment that failed miserably, and return to the Season 1 template" O.

John,

Ditto (or as the 'net guys say... "+1") on your post.  Echoing Gary's  for your reasons.

I will say that, it doesn't matter to me if CBS/P releases more of the "Heyes" sets for the sake of those that are primarily interested in the studio-Q transfers which are outstanding.  They can make the choice to buy and contimue to support the studio releases of this show.  I just happen to be on the other side of the fence from them about the backscore changes. 

The episodes that you mentioned are the same ones that I had problems with, as to the music subs, particularly that courtroom scene in "....String".

BTW, I like that "Cagney" avatar   Those Cagney films are among my favorites in my collection.

Thanks! Cagney is my favorite actor! :)

 

With the Fugitive, if they have to have replacement music, can't they at least put some money into it and have it sound like its from the period? Can't they mix it seamlessly with the other audio tracks? That jukebox scene from "World's End" is such an embarrassment; that they allowed it to be released like that tells you all you need to know about CBS/Paramount. After that, it's either all original or nothing.

I agree, Heyes did the best he could, most likely, but it's always been my contention that there's nothing like the original cues from the era of the time the show was produced.  That's the way it was intended to be seen and heard, imo. 

It's always been interesting to me to see the (imo) differences in perception with score edits/subs with regards to older TV shows vs movies of the past.  Maybe it's just my perception of it but it seems that we look at TV/DVD edits differently than movie edits.  To me, it's unacceptable to insert large subs into a TV show's backscore.  I understand the legal/clearance issues are "apples/oranges" between the 2 DVD markets but it's a shame that the TV/DVD mkt is either treated differently either by indifference within the decision-makers or out of legal necessity.  Be that as it may, we've seen past incidences where studios have made mistakes in using edited or
 

16mm-Q prints when better mat'l was available to them.

(Cagney favorites of mine: The Roaring Twenties, G-Men)

I'm never going to defend the presence of Heyes where it still is, but I will only say as before this.    When the S2 V1 debacle happened I was among those who said, "At least put this back in....." etc.      Imperfect as the final execution of the S2 sets were, I'd feel like a total hypocrite if I maintained a "100% unacceptable" mentality for the replacement sets that I did for the initial S2 V1 set.     That's just my take on it.

I have ended up trading in all my Fugitive sets as I do not believe that we will receive substantially altered sets.  I was ok with Season 2 Volume 1 as Paramount appeared to be trying to correct the problem.  When Season 2 Volume 2 ended up at my home, I was appalled at how poorly the set was mixed and the overabundance of clearly out of place music.  The season 2 fiasco caused me to just throw in the towel.  It appeared as if Paramount had taken a giant step backwards after their "attempt at correction".

As much as I enjoy The Fugitive, I found that I could not take one nearly perfect season and one very poor season.  It tainted the memories I have of one of the greatest shows ever transmitted to the public.

I certainly hope that Paramount gives this series the verdict we are all looking for.  If the seasons can be released as aired. I would gladly pick up all releases.

Fingers crossed that Season 3 will be better. 

Doug

I actually just ordered Fugitive S2 V1 to take advantage of the mail-in for the re-scored discs before the clock struck midnight. And I don't even have any of S1 yet, just too broke right now.

Fugitive is one of those shows that, yes, there may be a few issues with the second season, but word of mouth on episode quality is just too good for me to ignore it for too long. Besides, the mail in was a pretty motivating factor to jump in now for me.

Heh, same here, Matt.  My copy arrived last week, and I promptly mailed away for the replacements.  :D

The same here also. 

Fugitive S2 V1 just arrived here this morning and I already have the PDF printing, the POP clipped and taped down, the envelope addressed, the form filled out, all set.

Mail drop on Monday and then we being The Waiting Game.

Best of all, the "bad" copy for Fugitive S2 V1 goes to my mom who isn't going to know the difference and might just enjoy the show.

Now, about S1 and S2 V2...

Is there no hope for a restored release of The Fugitive S2 and S3 on DVD?? 

^ No one knows either way about S3 but I think it's pretty safe to assume that Paramount is never going to back a second time to release S2 with all the score intact.

You're referring to Season 3 Volume 2 on Amazon.  It's a place-holder.

Season 3 Volume 1 has four 'reviews.'  Actually, none of these is a "Review."  They're rants about prior releases.

Man, that was FAST!  I sent away for my Season 2 volume 1 replacement set on 8/07, and it arrived today.... 13 days later.  I couldn't see any discernible difference between the two sets (except the discs are held differently inside the case), so I popped in a disc to check for myself.  Yup, Rugolo's definitely there.  :D

Now to get rid of the original edition... eBay, here I come!  Hopefully I'll get enough to cover the cost of Season 2 volume 2...


Edited by Craig Beam - 8/20/09 at 10:57pm

jdee, you are so right. There's a scene in a bar in "Man in a Chariot" where the music completely ruined the show for me. It did not fit with the era, and all I could do was think about how lousy it sounded. I'm really hopeful things go back to Season One standards with Season Three.

My greatest fear is the inclusion of any Mark Heyes stuff. It will be a dealbreaker for me and I really don't want that to happen. Although I was somewhat pleased with the S2V1 replacement set, I could not stomach S2V2 whatsoever. It was heartbreaking.
Edited by jquirk - 8/24/09 at 9:34am

Surprisingly (to me anyway), Season Three- Volume Two is already coming on December 8.

For some reason this link only takes you to their main page:

http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releases/the-fugitive2.html

That is surprising, but hey, I'll take it. We should see the series completed by next summer at this rate.

That's because six rows down on the left column of the main page is a blurb about Season 3 Volume 2.

I currently have all of Season 1 and received the replacement discs for Season 2, Vol 1.  I haven't picked up the Vol 2 yet.  Like some of you, I am waiting to see reviews for the Season 3 set.  

FWIW, here's my plan: if Season 3 is another botched set, I'm quitting the series.  I'll keep what I have and that's that.  However, if it is done right (like Season 1), then I'll hold my nose and pick up Season 2, Vol 2 and continue collecting this series.

Did anyone notice the box cover art for CBS/Paramount's upcoming 50th anniversary release of "Bonanza?" It states, "Finally, the real deal! Full-length episodes with original music." They're making a big point about the series being released on DVD with the original music.

Check out the picture of the box cover here: http://www.amazon.com/Bonanza-Official-First-Season-Vol/dp/B001JAHPMG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1253030799&sr=8-1

The same cannot be said about the upcoming release of the third season sets of "The Fugitive." There has been nary a peep about the music, which I believe is a very bad sign of what is to come.

How can there be a "peep" about it when no one's gotten an advance copy yet for goodness sake?      I say it's ridiculous to get paranoid at this point because does anyone really think we're going to go through the equivalent of what happened the day S2 V1 was released?

You missed his point Jack P. The original musical score being retained would be a major selling point that would logically be something they'd want to be promoting on such things as the cover of the DVD, such as in his Bonanza example.

Yet, there hasn't been a word about the issue despite their full knowledge of how a great many fans feel about the series and their concern about future releases. Their silence is telling in my opinion, and is grounds for predicting that we'll get something that has been butchered, either completely like the original copies of season 2, or with a significant portion of it like their replacement disc. 

Even if the release is closer to what the replacement disc ended up being like, it's unacceptable and ruins the show in the opinion of many fans of it.

If the issue has been resolved, what's your reasoning for their silence when many people are waiting to hear the verdict before deciding to purchase or skip this release?

I have to agree with Jim and Leo on this one.  As much as I'm hoping we get a third season dvd set that mirrors the first season set (almost every original musical note included), this is an interesting ad wrap around that Bonanza set.  I've felt for some time that if we were going to get back on track with Season 3 of THE FUGITIVE, music wise, the company would have trumpeted it from the rooftops.  The lack of any advanced news from CBS or an insider, along with the company pimping the "original music" in this BONANZA set, doesn't exactly feel me with confidence about the upcoming Fuge set.

Gary "praying I'm wrong..." O.

Well, they're using that as a selling point to compete with the countless public domain versions of Bonanza out there, in order to convince us to buy the CBS/Paramount version, which retains the original theme music.  Even if they do completely restore all the Fugitive music (something I don't expect), they're not going to advertise how much they screwed up in the Season 2 releases...

I don't think what Bonanza has on it's cover regarding the music is a good comparison to use one way or another when thinking about the next Fugitive release.

In my opinion, the only reason Bonanza went to such great lengths to express this is because of all the PD releases out there. From a marketing perspective they needed theirs to stand out above all the rest. Especially, consdering how inexpensive the PD releases are compared to the official first season release.

As for the next Fugitive release, I would bet they would go out of their way to purposely NOT do what was done with Bonanza. Doing so would just further complicate things by advertising the mistakes from the past. I will bet the majority of purchasers of the first two seasons do not even know about the extent of music replacements or that there was even a replacement program for season 2 volume 1 sets. The readers here will judge the next release by the reviews and contents, a cover means nothing. However, making a fuss on the next cover could make the average buyer question something that up to this point they haven't, which is "what is so special about this release that I missed in the previous releases". CBS would definitely not want to do that.

Edit: Jason beat me to it. gotta learn to type faster.

I agree, Guy, that CBS/Paramount probably wouldn't go the same route with a wrap around ad on the upcoming FUGITIVE set like they did the BONANZA set.  You're correct that it would almost be like admitting they screwed up Season 2.  Having said that, it seems reasonable to me that they'd at least let an intentional "leak" out with guys like Gord and Dave and the other outlets that we can expect full backscores again with this 3rd Season set.  Otherwise they are shooting themselves in the foot because plenty of people are not going to pre-order this set because they are waiting on actual reviews.  And pre-orders are important to the studios in determining those all important numbers they use to guage success.  So it seems to me that they'd have gotten the word out one way or the other if they were returning THE FUGITIVE to a Season 1 template.  

Gary "hope I'm wrong" O.

While not advertising like Bonanza's upcoming release does not surprise me. Leaking something to this community about how they are trying to right the ship would go a long way to helping initial sales of the release. The question is, to a company like CBS, how much clout does a community like this have that they would even notice or think to communicate with?

It's hard to tell what's going on with them--they did do the whole exchange program for S2V1 to correct the most egregious music substitutions, but at the same time, they don't encourage much back-and-forth dialogue with the people who post on these boards.  I do agree it's possible that if Season 3 was going to have the full original soundtrack (or 99% of it), they would have communicated that to the guys at TVShowsonDVD, so I'm going to assume we'll get something like "corrected" S2V1.  (I'm just speculating, of course).

The S2V1 exchange was a reactive response to complaints here and else where. Even though they attempted to do something about it through the exchange program, reactive responses are typically not as hard to come by. What people here are looking for is a proactive response to let them know it won't happen again. Proactive responses take forethought that I just don't see happening here.

My take is to not try and guess, read between the lines, or even read tea leaves. I'm betting we won't know anything until the first person receives their copy and provides feedback. Until then we just have to see back and take a wait and see attitude.

Even if CBS *wanted* to give us the original soundtracks, who are they going to call at Capitol to obtain clearances?  As long as the ownership of the Capitol Music Library remains in legal dispute, there is probably no one at Capitol who has the legal authority to grant clearances to use their cues.  So CBS' only alternative is to make music substitutions.  I'm just hoping that CBS has learned how important the original score is to the fans, and will keep the substitutions to an absolute minimum.