The Fugitive: Season 3 Volume 1 - Page 2

My sentiments exactly--I have yet to purchase V2 myself.  And for the record, I fall into the 'purist' group comprised of Gary, Jeff, et. al.  I would have bought V2 if there had been no other choice on the studio's part but to make many music substitutions.  But the fact that they weren't necessary at all coupled with unprofessionly inserted and poorly mixed 'synth-cues inserted was a definite deal breaker for me.  I just can't get over the ignorance of CBS/Paramount thinking that fans would be OK with it...still boggles my mind. 

I've been watching the Season 1, Volume 2 set. Here's a question that occurred to me about the show. Why doesn't Kimble try to fake his death? In "Somebody to Remember," Kimble has no problems with a scheme that tries to convince Gerard that he has left the country. Why not take it a step further? "Storm Center" would seem to have given him the perfect set-up, and the female character does say perhaps the police will think he's dead.

Maybe off-screen there were times during the chase that Kimble tried to fake his death? Maybe he was declared dead and Gerard kept searching anyway? Of course dramatically, if Kimble did try to fake his death and was successful at it, that would mean no more Lt. Gerard week after week; but common sense wise, wouldn't this have been something he would have tried? 

Speaking for myself, it's not the opinion (which I think a number of people here share) as much as how that opinion is expressed.

Keep watching, my friend.  Keep watching. 


Gary "it's a great thought and the writers didn't miss it, that much I'll tell you right now" O.

Will do :) That offer in "Storm Center" from Bethel Leslie to run away with her to Brazil sounded pretty tempting. He should have tried it out for awhile, at least for the summer hiatus :)

Roy,

Speaking for some of the "purists"  we respect your take on this as well.  I hope CBS/P continues with the releases regardless of the backscore changes for the sake of those here that want to buy the remaining studio season sets.  It's a choice we make as collectors as to what's acceptable to us and what we say "no thanks, pass".

I guess I fall into the non-purist camp, even though THE FUGITIVE is an extremely important TV series for me.  It's the Rugolo cues that I missed the most, and I was pretty happy overall with the re-do of S2V1.  There are still a few cringe-worthy moments in both of the Season Two volumes, but enough of the Rugolo cues survive to say "this is THE FUGITIVE" to me.

I fully appreciate where the purist camp is coming from, but personally, I cannot deny the appeal of the overall series.  While the music track is a large part, it's not the whole thing.  The acting, the guest stars, the cinematography, and most of all the writing all combine with the music track to make a very compelling whole.  I bought - with full foreknowledge - Season Two Volume One in its all-Heyes version.  It was quite disappointing to watch and listen to, but had they not "fixed" it, I still would have kept the set and gotten around to watching all of the episodes.

With the "heart and soul" cues of Pete Rugolo now largely back into the S2 releases, I can accept these sets - even if they're only a temporary way of putting the show front and center for me.  I know what the series had been in its glory days, yet I can accept a reasonable amount of music-futzing.  Someday, if another version comes along with correct music - and I'm still alive to appreciate it - I'll "upgrade".  Meanwhile life's too short to be denied this most excellent of series.  Hopefully, Season Three - the subject of THIS thread - will once again return to more original music like the first season.

I have never - and will never - support the actions of pirates.  This release series from CBS/P, to me, is the only legitimate way of seeing THE FUGITIVE on DVD.  I have little desire to revisit my old VHS collection, save for an occasional reference viewing.

Harry

I still own all of my tapes of the series when it aired on A and E, and am happy with them. BUT, I WILL make a concerted effort to purchase season four (volumes one and two), BECAUSE the prints used on A and E were HORRIBLE. The colors were faded/washed out, and the sound was wobbly.

Roy, I really appreciate the spirit in which you said all that.  It's certainly important that people not use inflammatory language or veiled accusations when discussing this.  Thanks again for the way in which you have responded.

I'm really sorry you lost your A&E tapes.  I know what a labor of love that was, because I did the same thing and used those for a long, long time before the advent of DVD recorders.  I've lost archived footage before and it's a difficult thing to say the least. 


Gary "as a 'purist', I echo Jeff's comments and thoughts on the matter" O.

This new Forum format is pretty slick.

There are FUGITIVE completists out there, such as myself.  So it follows, if you have the VHS releases and the few laserdisc releases, you'll buy these DVDs...

...until the real thing comes along. 

In my last post I probably gave the wrong impression that I'll never purchase S2 vol. 2.  I'm just dissatisfied with the sloppy handling by Paramount on this volume and wanted the studio to realize this.  I'll pick it up when the price point of the set equilibrates roughly with the desire to add it to my collection--because I do want a complete set.  Had everyone just delayed their purchase a bit the studio may well FINALLY gotten the message that half-a**ing the job is not enough to placate the many fans of "The Fugitive" who don't want the show unnecessarily tampered with.

Well said, Michael.  That's my main issue too.  I don't want the studios to feel like this is acceptable, but if everyone buys these right off the bat and says they are acceptable Paramount will have no incentive to get it right in the future.  Now having written all that that I can honestly say that I will not, at any price, buy Seasons 3 or 4 if the music doesn't return to a S1 template.  I just can't take the Heyes stuff to any degree.  But if I had absolutely no other way to view the show at all I guess I might have to reconsider, and I do understand someone like Roy who lost archived footage.

Gary "thanks for contributing Michael, you always add interesting points to the conversations here" O.

Unfortunately, it's a catch-22. Buying the S2 sets says that replacing the music is acceptable to some degree. However, not buying it wouldn't have gotten them to fix the problem. It would have just made them stop releasing the series. Look at WKRP, Fox knows that the music changes are what hurt sales but they didn't re-release S1 with all the music or continue the series with an intact S2, they just pulled the plug.

Keep in mind, I don't think wanting the original music is asking too much or that everyone should buy whatever the studio puts out but not buying wouldn't have gotten CBS/Paramount to put out corrected S2 sets either.

You're undoubtedly correct, Travis.  The purchasing isn't really the issue.  It's the buzz and PR that makes the difference.  That's why the Variety piece last year was so important, IMHO.  I'm confident that it was instrumental in getting CBS to rethink their position.  Unfortunately, they didn't go far enough and correct the entire problem.  They only fixed a portion of the problem.  Had more people in places of influence been able to follow up on the replacement discs and point CBS to Burlingame's solution, I think it would have been better for all of us.  But just buying the new sets and saying "Thanks, this is great now!" isn't going to change anything. 

Gary "like you say, it is basically a catch-22" O.

Does anyone have any new information on what's going to happen with S2V1 after the September deadline for replacement discs? If they're just going to release the replacements to retailers at that point, then it obviously would be better to purchase S2V1 after the deadline passes. On the other hand, if retailers keep selling the Heyes-scored version, then you will be out of luck if you don't buy now and send in the coupon. I personally would prefer to just wait rather than risk having the coupon lost in the mail, but I don't want to miss out on the replacements. 

I think you run a greater risk of missing getting the replacement than you do having your coupon request lost in the mail.  I would chance it (I did) and send in the Proof of Purchase.  I doubt if CBS/P is going to spend any time or money to run ads announcing that Season 2 Volume 1 has been "upgraded" and "is available at stores near you."

Rather than send out retail notices, I would guess the replacement version would be included in a 3-season box set of the FUGITIVE.  You could always keep the replacement shrink-wrapped and sell it later on Amazon.  I'm trying to figure out what to do with the original S2 V1 set.  I've got plenty of coasters already. 

The $64 million question here is whether "Fugitive" fans will again be subjected to the horrific Mark Heyes musical contributions. Has CBS/P finally washed its hands of this musical hack as far as "The Fugitive" is concerned? Or, has the company once again dipped into Heyes' pool of rotten to continue an ongoing ruination of one of the greatest television series of all time? If the next offering is anything like S2V2, I'm afraid I'll have to hang up the gloves with the series. I'm a fan of "The Fugitive," not a fan of "The Fugitive featuring synthesized organ music by Mark Heyes."

Just curious if anyone has been brave enough to preorder season 3 yet ?
Not yet for me ! 

I haven't yet, but I believe I will.

Nope, I need online reviews about the backscore before buying this one.  If it's altererd, (Heyes music), I'll pass.

Well, do I want to give CBS Paramount my money up front under the guise that they will 'probably' make an effort to get at least 'some' of the original score back in?  Answer: I'll wait and see. 95+% original soundtrack or NO SALE for me.

Add me to the chorus that Jeff and Michael are singing in.  I'm definitely going to wait for reviews before I purchase.  If the review guarantees me that we are back to a Season 1 template, I'll buy.  If not, NO SALE.

Oh, and by a review I mean one by someone who actually knows what they are talking about.  Not some pseudo-intellectual who fancies themselves a fan and then can't even accurately communicate what percentage of original music is retained.  And "original music" is more than just the Rugolo score, as beautiful and important as that portion of the backscore is to this series. 


Gary "keeping my fingers crossed for some good news, but at the same time I'm not getting my hopes up" O.

Not me.

I have season 1 and the first part of season 2 but have yet to see a single episode ever (complete blind buy with too many other shows in the queue). At some point I will need to watch the first season and a half to make a determination on how affected I am with the music replacements. Based on that I will either sell off what I have or be committed to buy the rest. This isn't the type of show you can go half way with.

It's such a travesty what CBS did to this show. It was completely needless.

Kinda strange, this season 3 has only two reviews on Amazons web site, where the S2V2 had about 20 plus at this time.

It is kind of like everyone is really scared of it and what it is made of !

I'd say that's a good guess.  The history associated with the Fugitive CBS/P releases are such that some of us require reviews and info about the backscore content before buying.

I would rather see CBS/Paramount either release The Fugitive with its music 100% intact or not release it at all. I say this not only out of principle, but also because of the replacement music itself. They simply didn't pour enough money into the new music to make sure it sounded right, or to make sure it was properly mixed into the soundtrack. It's so cheaply produced that its very cheapness brings attention to it and draws you out of the episode.
 

I was watching "World's End" on the replacement discs for Season 2, Volume 1. I thought it was a great show, and I was really enjoying hearing the Rugolo soundtrack as well as the CBS cues from Gunsmoke and other programs. But then the episode gets to the jukebox scene. The jukebox music sounded so loud I couldn't hear the characters; it felt so modern, so sythesized and fake; I was completely drawn out of the episode and the mood. All I could think about was the incompetence of the people who mixed the audio track for this DVD and the shoestring budget they must have been operating on if this is the result. And then there's "Man on a String"; I was enjoying the episode with the Rugolo and CBS cues. Then comes the final act in the courtroom. Again, my attention was diverted by the new score, how it sounded cheap, too modern, and how it wasn't well mixed. It caused the final scene to fall completely flat dramatically for me.
 

The experiment that they conducted with the "new look" Season 2 sets of mixing replacement cues with the original fails miserably. The replacement music is too self-conscious. It takes you out of the episode. To make it work, they needed to record the replacement music with a full orchestra, just like the original was recorded. They also needed to mix it in more deftly with the original. Both of these things were obviously beyond their budget.

Why they thought the music to The Fugitive would be an issue at all is still beyond me. It just points to the incompetent coporate culture at CBS/Paramount. They should have just used the original, their imaginary consequences be damned, or not release The Fugitive at all and explain why to the fans. Their way out, first a total replacement score done without explanation, then this mixed, still bastardized version done on the fly, is a classic case of corporate stupidity and how to completely turn off a fan base.

For dramas from the 1960s, like Gunsmoke, Twilight Zone, Star Trek, The Fugitive, Mission: Impossible, music plays such a crucial role in making the show. For CBS/Paramount to cavalierly treat the music score to the Fugitive the way they have is a travesty; they're gutting the show. It would have been better to leave it unreleased.

Edited by jdee28 - 8/11/2009 at 05:01 pm GMT