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The Fugitive: Season 3 Volume 1 - Page 9

post #241 of 345
10/29/09 at 7:40am


Quote:
Originally Posted by smithb View Post



That's an interesting premise. I currently have all of season 1 and the replacements for season 2 volume 1. So if CBS has fiqured out what they are doing now, I could end up buying all of seasons 3 and 4. Leaving me with the decision of either buying season 2 volume 2 to get the improved video while sacrificing the audio due to music replacements, or trying to rangle up the missing 15 episodes from some alternate copies/source.

I've never seen a single episode of the Fugitive and there are several things ahead of it in the queue, so I probably won't even get to it until all of the remaining seasons are out. This makes it all tricky for me because I have no clue as to whether the music repalcements will bother me or not since I'm not willing to jump ahead and try a questionable episode in season 2 for fear it might ruin some part of the plot by seeing it out of order.
 
I dont think you can ruin anything by watching the episodes out of order.  In season 1 volume 1 there was mention of time frames, but some of these episodes were not shown in the order they were filmed, so 1 episode will say "Now 10 months a fugitive" and an episode following will say "It has been 8 months since the escape".  I'm parapharasing, these may not be the actual words. 

You may not even notice the music changes since you are not familiar with the series.  It may not be a problem for you.  I have been a fan since it was originally broadcast, so I found the music alterations hard to stomach.
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

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post #242 of 345
10/29/09 at 7:42am


Quote:
Originally Posted by smithb View Post

That's an interesting premise. I currently have all of season 1 and the replacements for season 2 volume 1. So if CBS has fiqured out what they are doing now, I could end up buying all of seasons 3 and 4. Leaving me with the decision of either buying season 2 volume 2 to get the improved video while sacrificing the audio due to music replacements, or trying to rangle up the missing 15 episodes from some alternate copies/source.

I've never seen a single episode of the Fugitive and there are several things ahead of it in the queue, so I probably won't even get to it until all of the remaining seasons are out. This makes it all tricky for me because I have no clue as to whether the music repalcements will bother me or not since I'm not willing to jump ahead and try a questionable episode in season 2 for fear it might ruin some part of the plot by seeing it out of order.
 

Brad,

As a first-time viewer on DVD of this show, this might help your decision on viewing the show.   You don't miss anything by jumping ahead with the episodes.  The only thing you don't want to do is jump ahead to the end of the last season when that one is released.
 
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post #243 of 345
10/29/09 at 7:49am
Dave and Jeff are correct, Brad.  The shows were not filmed in any type of truly episodic format where one built upon another.  I would suggest you just buy Season 1 (which was not really tampered with at all - other than a jukebox or radio backscore here and there) and watch that one.  I would say go ahead and watch that season basically in order, but even then it's not critical.  Just make sure you watch the first episode first because that one does serve as a great opening to the entire series.  Then you could conceivably jump right ahead to "The Girl from Little Egypt" which I think was episode #14, because it is a flashback episode that tells and shows you the entire story of why Kimble is on the run.  Other than that, you could skip around a bit in that first season and then pretty much do the same afterwards.  But definitely buy the 1st Season first and watch that one.  I think you'll fall in love with the show like many of us have.

Gary "have I mentioned before that The Fugitive is my favorite show of all time?" O. 
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post #244 of 345
10/29/09 at 8:22am


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary OS View Post

Dave and Jeff are correct, Brad.  The shows were not filmed in any type of truly episodic format where one built upon another.  I would suggest you just buy Season 1 (which was not really tampered with at all - other than a jukebox or radio backscore here and there) and watch that one.  I would say go ahead and watch that season basically in order, but even then it's not critical.  Just make sure you watch the first episode first because that one does serve as a great opening to the entire series.  Then you could conceivably jump right ahead to "The Girl from Little Egypt" which I think was episode #14, because it is a flashback episode that tells and shows you the entire story of why Kimble is on the run.  Other than that, you could skip around a bit in that first season and then pretty much do the same afterwards.  But definitely buy the 1st Season first and watch that one.  I think you'll fall in love with the show like many of us have.

Gary "have I mentioned before that The Fugitive is my favorite show of all time?" O. 
 


Gary is correct.  I would suggest watching the first episode and then "The Girl From Little Egypt" next.  That really helps to set up the backstory.  I read in Ed Robertson's book that the whole reason they did "TGFLE" was because the viewers wanted to know more about the circumstances leading up to the escape.  They probably would have made and broadcast it sooner if they had known this.  The other episodes are pretty interchangable, although "Nightmare at Northoak" and "The Homecoming" give a little more information, as well as being a couple of the best in the series.

 

Gary, its my all time favorite also
 

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post #245 of 345
10/29/09 at 8:34am
- JackP

Thanks for your reports from the front. They've been really helpful.

Hopefully, your Fugitive full immersion, won't have you running out the back door every time some knocks on your front door.
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post #246 of 345
10/29/09 at 8:45am
Phillies in five!!
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post #247 of 345
10/29/09 at 10:06am

Quote:
Originally Posted by buford2 View Post

Gary is correct.  I would suggest watching the first episode and then "The Girl From Little Egypt" next.  That really helps to set up the backstory.  I read in Ed Robertson's book that the whole reason they did "TGFLE" was because the viewers wanted to know more about the circumstances leading up to the escape.  They probably would have made and broadcast it sooner if they had known this.  The other episodes are pretty interchangable, although "Nightmare at Northoak" and "The Homecoming" give a little more information, as well as being a couple of the best in the series.

 

Gary, its my all time favorite also
 


I see, I guess I assumed more carry over from episode to episode. Since I have all of season 1 and the repackaged season 2 volume 1. If I wanted to experience the worst of the Heyes with what I have then I should watch:
- first episode
- the Girl From Little Egypt
- [insert worst heyes replacement episode here from my season 2 set]?
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post #248 of 345
10/29/09 at 10:16am
There is no Heyes in season 1.
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post #249 of 345
10/29/09 at 11:36am

Quote:
Originally Posted by buford2 View Post

There is no Heyes in season 1.

For the Heyes I'm referring to the replacement Season 2 set. From what everyone has said it would seem I could jump to a season 2 episode once I get the initial premise without spoiling anything.

I know this isn't quite the same as the worst Heyes episode in season 2 volume 2 but it is the only Heyes I have at this point.
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post #250 of 345
10/29/09 at 11:43am
Just a thought...what if CBS plans on releasing all 4 seasons of The Fugitive in blu-ray at some later date in a completely untouched original format...i.e. no music substitutions whatsoever? If so, how many of us who purchased the original dvds would spring for this new set? If the vast majority of us do...lured by the incentive of a much better picture and ALL original music left intact...wouldn't THAT make the current music substitution fiasco on these standard dvds a brilliant marketing strategy on CBS' part in retrospect?
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post #251 of 345
10/29/09 at 12:00pm
I don't see it happening. Blu-ray, though wonderful, isn't the revolutionary format like DVD was back in 1997, so I doubt we'll see all our favourite TV shows that have been released on DVD find a home on blu-ray as well. Certainly shows like Star Trek have been successful on the format, but not many studios seem interested in releasing vintage shows on BD--the only other 60s show on BD that I can recall is The Prisoner (and I'm still waiting for my set to arrive).  Of course I would love an unaltered set of The Fugitive on BD--BW film looks gorgeous in HD--but I don't think it's realistic. We'll likely see BD releases of The Twilight Zone and The Outer Limits before CBS returned to The Fugitive.

As for S4, if the music substitution seems light, as it's been reported so far here for S3 V1, sales of the S3 sets should warrant DVD releases of S4 next year. The fact that CBS has finished transferring the series to HD and that S3 V2 is being released in December bodes well for a completion in 2010.
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post #252 of 345
10/29/09 at 12:04pm
And thank you, Jack for your earnest reports while watching S3 V1. I was holding off buying the set until there was enough confirmation that music substitution wasn't too bad. I picked up my set last night! Looking forward to "Landscapes with Running Figures" again!
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post #253 of 345
10/29/09 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshuaB. View Post

I don't see it happening. Blu-ray, though wonderful, isn't the revolutionary format like DVD was back in 1997, so I doubt we'll see all our favourite TV shows that have been released on DVD find a home on blu-ray as well.


I don't see it happening either (or at least, not for many years to come). It took more than a decade for The Fugitive to come to DVD and while I love Blu-ray, it won't/can't have the success that DVD had so the odds of smaller classic shows coming any time seems very unlikely. Even if it does, Paramount certainly isn't involved in a conspiracy to 'force' people to rebuy the show on Blu-ray by having the original music on it. If they were actually planning on doing something like that, they would have done it on a much bigger show so they could have made alot more money.

Also, a big thumbs up to Jack for taking the time to note all the music changes. Thanks, Jack!
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post #254 of 345
10/29/09 at 4:38pm
I am setting here watching season 2 of "The Invaders" and was wondering how you can notice the cues from this show when it is on "The Fugitive" ??

Edited by shadyguy - 10/29/09 at 5:14pm
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post #255 of 345
10/29/09 at 5:16pm
The reference to "The Invaders" when it comes to "Fugitive" music refers to the score originally composed for the "Twilight Zone" episode "The Invaders" and not the later QM show.
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post #256 of 345
10/29/09 at 5:24pm
ahhhhhh, now that makes much more sense !
Always wondered how people referenced music from a show that had not even aired yet !

How are you doing on the last 4 episodes ?
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post #257 of 345
10/29/09 at 6:39pm
Haven't watched them yet.
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post #258 of 345
10/29/09 at 7:03pm
We'll let Jack watch the baseball game (go Yankees! -- I grew up in da Bronx), but when he gets a chance sometime, he might be interested in comments just posted on Yahoo's group, "The Fugitive Views and Reviews" by Robert Dahl (Robert, if you're also following this HTF discussion, I hope you don't mind my posting your comments about the music cues):
 

Quote:
"Landscape With Running Figures part 1" has Heyes cues at 4:31, 7:09, 23:24, 33:54, 39:10, and 44:12.

"Landscape With Running Figures part 2" has no Heyes cues that I could hear, although it seemed that there were stretches of silence that might indicate that some original cues were simply removed. (Maybe CBS decided that it was better to remove a cue entirely rather than insert a loud blaring Heyes cue that would call attention to itself?)

"Trial By Fire" has several instances of Heyes music that actually blend rather well -- looks like CBS has mercifully toned down the volume. But there are a few really loud Heyes cues in Act 4.

"Conspiracy of Silence" has even more Heyes than "Trial By Fire", and fairly loud Heyes at that.

"Set Fire To A Straw Man" has Heyes cues at 2:26, 4:00, 29:25, and 37:44.

"Wings Of An Angel" has a great deal of Heyes synth music, and only a handful of original Rugolo cues.

"Middle Of A Heat Wave",
"Crack In A Crystal Ball",
"Three Cheers For Little Boy Blue",
"All The Scared Rabbits",
"An Apple A Day" -- all have no Heyes music that I could hear.

I haven't yet watched the final four eps of the set.

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post #259 of 345
10/29/09 at 7:10pm
His assessment of "Set Fire To A Straw Man" matches mine because it sounded like Heyes turning into original in midstream but because the cue was so seamless and ended with the Girard cue that was where I got confused.     And I also was concurring on "Conspiracy Of Silence" where I felt it was potentially as much as seven minutes of Heyes music.     "Landscape" is where my ear disagrees with him, and on "Trial" only once did I think I heard something that sounded like Heyes in that blasty moment in Act IV when the bus pulls out.

We're also in agreement on "Wings Of An Angel".   That is the one episode where Heyes is very evident.


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post #260 of 345
10/29/09 at 7:13pm
Ugh, so are we now back to this set being more like S2, V2?  Starting to sound like it based on who we listen to.  Darn it.  Just went I was beginning to think we got it right for once!

Gary "now I have no idea what to think or what to do" O.
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post #261 of 345
10/29/09 at 7:14pm
"Stranger In The Miiror" I should add I did watch late last night and that was intact.    That had loads of TZ cues.   So I have just three more to go in the set.
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post #262 of 345
10/29/09 at 7:18pm
Gary, this disagreement at the moment centers on two of the episodes. "Landscape" Pt. 1 and "Trial By Fire."     So far, his reviews match mine on all other episodes but for those.     If I end up being the one who was wrong on those two, I'll be the first to offer my apologies.    I'm just trying to offer my best judgment based on the general sound, and when I hear cues I recognize and sometimes I have to take an educated guess based on the matter of whether the music has a modern sound to it because apart from "Landscape" I don't have the originals to compare, and I'll admit that I only did a side-by-side check on the source music cues for Pt. 2.     I will go back and study "Landscape" more closely when I get a chance because I did not when watching this very important episode get a sense I was hearing something out of place.
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post #263 of 345
10/29/09 at 7:25pm
No problem, Jack.  Regardless of how everything turns out in the wash, you have done a great job and I appreciate it very, very much!  I was just hoping we were going to be looking at about 12 of the 15 episodes being basically untouched altogether.  But now I'm not sure about that.  Looks like it might be edging closer to a 50/50 split - which would not be a good thing, IMHO.  But that's worse case scenario based on all the info we have thus far.  I'm still hoping you are correct and we are only looking at minor replacements in a few spots - with many episodes being completely untouched. 

Gary "don't sweat it at all, Jack - you're doing a fantastic job and I commend you for it" O.
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post #264 of 345
10/29/09 at 7:41pm
Yes, I think I would say that "Wings Of An Angels" is the only episode that would cause you some fits, and probably that chase section of "Conspiracy" where even there the overall ratio of original to Heyes was still a case of 80% original over the course of the episode.     Unless these last three episodes are as bad as "Wings" I think there is no question that the worst case-scenario is a match of S2 V1 where Heyes cues I think intruded into about 4-5 episodes overall and on V2 the ratio was reversed where only 5 of 15 were totally clear.

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post #265 of 345
10/29/09 at 7:50pm
     Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack P View Post

Yes, I think I would say that "Wings Of An Angels" is the only episode that would cause you some fits, and probably that chase section of "Conspiracy" where even there the overall ratio of original to Heyes was still a case of 80% original over the course of the episode.     Unless these last three episodes are as bad as "Wings" I think there is no question that the worst case-scenario is a match of S2 V1 where Heyes cues I think intruded into about 4-5 episodes overall and on V2 the ratio was reversed where only 5 of 15 were totally clear.
 


I believe you are correct on the differences between Season 2 Volume 1 vs. Volume 2.  They were pretty much inverted as you said.  I'm really keeping my fingers crossed that we see absolutely no more Heyes intrusion in the remaining episodes you have left to review.  This will be key for me.  Fingers and toes crossed that the final 3 episodes you have left are all basically untouched.

Gary "regardless of how the rest of this set turns out, I still reserve the right to say CBS/P is goofy and insane in the way they are doing this stuff" O.

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post #266 of 345
10/29/09 at 9:19pm
Okay, now that I'm happy over the game, I'm going back and checking all those spots of Landscape Pt. 1.  What follows are all of my descriptions as I view them side by side on my computer with two DVD drives.

The 4:31 cue that lasts 30 seconds covering the point where Kimble is told he signed the wrong name by Luis transitioning to the Girards arrival at the hotel is indeed Heyes.   In fact, I have to say that this is a Heyes cue that I likely missed in "Trial" because it is very quiet and you have to turn up the volume very high to in fact tell it has synthy origins.    But it's not intrusive or critical IMO.

The second cue at 7:09 is NOT, repeat NOT a replacement.   It's the original where Kimble is going down the alley and ducks into the building where he confronts the kids.

And 23:24 which leads into the Act II closure is NOT a replacement either.

33:54.   NOT a replacement.

39:10.   NOT a replacement.   It's the original just sounding better that we're accustomed to hearing it.

44:12.   After Kimble tells a blinded Mrs. Girard she'll be all right and moves off.   Yes, this is a replacement that comes up in mid-stream.   This cue lasts 20 seconds and then it goes silent while in the original the cue plays out a bit longer.   But in all candor the different cue doesn't sound Heyesish at all and you'd easily think it was part of the original unlike the 4:31 cue where if you really listen closely you can hear the synthy sound.

That means "Landscape" has a grand total of about 50 seconds of replacement music by my count and four other instances cited as replacement is in fact the original.
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post #267 of 345
10/29/09 at 10:00pm
I'm moving on to "The Good Guys And The Bad Guys" and there's no question we've got jukebox replacement for the scenes of the dance because I can not believe that this generic jazzy type number would have accompanied a dance with everyone in western garb.     The background music in the carnival before Kimble gets roped may be generic replacement type stuff as well.     An iffy question might be the music when Kimble gets roped.     I can't swear to it one way or the other whether its original or not since it is so easy to get iffy when anything of a "chase" nature comes up, but I'm going to tentatively say it is not replacement until someone else says otherwise.   All other cues up to this point through 20 minutes are original.
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post #268 of 345
10/29/09 at 10:31pm
Final report on this episode.  All regular cues I think are intact, and the fact that there's a large amount of source music that is likely replaced is probably the only thing some might find awry with this episode.
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post #269 of 345
10/29/09 at 11:18pm
 And Robert Dahl just revised some of his comments and posted (on Yahoo) this summation regarding the Season 3, Vol. 1 set:

Quote:
 

I've now watched all 15 episodes of S3V1, and in my opinion, CBS has done a
pretty good job of leaving the original music mostly intact. Here is my review
of each episode.

"Wings Of An Angel" has a great deal of Heyes synth music, and only a handful of
original Rugolo cues. It's the worst of the set, in terms of replaced music.

"Trial By Fire" has several instances of Heyes music that actually blend rather
well, as they seem to have been reduced in volume. There are a few noticeable
Heyes cues in Act 4.

"Conspiracy of Silence" has more Heyes than "Trial By Fire", some of which are
pretty loud.

"Landscape With Running Figures part 1" has Heyes cues at 4:31 and 44:12. This
is a smaller number of Heyes cues than I first reported. I went back and took a
second look, and discovered that some of the cues that sounded like Heyes cues
were in fact original cues.

"Landscape With Running Figures part 2" has no Heyes cues that I could hear,
although it seemed that there were stretches of silence that might indicate that
some original cues were simply removed.

"Set Fire To A Straw Man" has loud Heyes cues at 2:26 and 4:00, with softer
Heyes at 29:20 and 37:40.

"The Good Guys And The Bad Guys" has no Heyes music that I could hear, but the
Vigilante-Roundup carnival music that you hear in the background has been
replaced.

The following episodes have no replacement music that I could detect -

"Middle Of A Heat Wave"
"Crack In A Crystal Ball"
"Three Cheers For Little Boy Blue"
"All The Scared Rabbits"
"An Apple A Day"
"Stranger In The Mirror"
"End Of The Line"
"When The Wind Blows"

In my opinion, this set is a good deal better than S2V2. Many episodes are
Heyes-free, and other eps like "Landscape" and "Trial" get off lightly with just
a few instances of Heyes.

The real puzzler is "Wings Of An Angel", which runneth over with Heyes. CBS
obviously was trying to please the fans with this release -- somehow "Wings Of
An Angel" slipped through the cracks.

Best regards,
Robert




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post #270 of 345
10/29/09 at 11:18pm
Jack, I think your comments have convinced me that purchasing this set may be well worth my while, after all. The only problem I have with any of your comments are those concerning the Yankees. I hate 'em. I'm a die hard Phillies fan who wants your team to lose, preferably in five.
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

Fugitive: Seasons 1-2
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