The Fugitive: Season 3 Volume 1 - Page 8

Good job Jack, I'll repeat what Jeff and Gary have already stated by expressing my thanks in your going through the episodes like this giving us a detailed analysis on this new set. We are getting much closer to being able to say that CBS at least went back to the season 2 replacement disk approach.

Which also adds more credibility to what some have suggested in that the majority of season 2 volume 2 may have already been done before they did the season 2 volume 1 replacements. Thus, making it appear to be a step backwards and leading up to all the confusion about how this set may come out.

Jack,

Thanks for the music info.  I'll check my original set and the cue in "Trial By Fire" sometime today and post the info,  Unfortunately, I can't do an A/B comparison since I don't have the CBS set yet but I'll listen to that scene and let you know if it sounds like it fits with the rest of the original score in the episode.

Brad, I think you're right about the theory about the production (DVD) order in the S2 CBS sets.  It sounds like the S2V2 set was mfg'd before V1.

Or it could just be that the guy who was good about leaving most of the original music in was sick the week CBS worked on S2, V2 and only the goofy guy worked on that set.  LOL.  Who knows...

I'll pull out "Trial By Fire" later today and listen to that scene and see if it sounds "loud" with the original music too (just like Jeff).  Maybe between a few of us we can give Jack enough info so that we can come to a conclusion about the scene in question.  That's such a great episode it would be nice if it was untouched by Heyes.

Gary "boy what a crazy ride we've had over the last several days concerning this set" O.

If the majority of these episodes are untampered with, I might spring for this set.  Keep those critiques coming!

There's a one minute cue at the ten minute mark of "Conspiracy Of Silence" that I'm not sure of.    It starts when we see Kimble rearranging the pool furniture and then notices a station wagon.     At first glance it didn't sound out of the ordinary but the closer I listened I had to wonder if there was a slight "snyth" sound to it that would be indicative of a replacement cue.    If it is a replacement cue, give them credit for dialing it in to a more acceptable sound level than was the case in S2 but I honestly wouldn't want to commit 100% to it being a replacement cue just like I can't with that one moment in "Trial By Fire" (not being a true expert on these episodes).

Sounds Heyesish at the moment when that test thing explodes and Kimble makes his break (22 minute mark).

As it continues my feelings on whether its Heyes or not keep changing.    First I get convinced its Heyes and then just when I think maybe not, as Kimble goes off in the desert it starts to sound more and more like that loud Heyes stuff for chase scenes but dialed down a little bit more.     I think tentatively I would have to call this sequence *likely* replacement stretching out for five minutes.    

Whatever this cue is, it continues into early Act III which I guess lends more credence to it being dialed down Heyes but the experts have to weigh in on this to confirm it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Jack, the moment in "Trial by Fire" that you think might be Heyes-like is kinda strong in the original.  It has trumpet blasts and and "boom boom" bass sound.

Gary "don't know if that helps at all or not" O.

Thanks Gary, that does help.    I'm getting too overly conditioned to expect a blast sound to be Heyes, so I think I'm more willing to say "Trial By Fire" is probably okay based on that.

"Conspiracy Of Silence" is leaving me perplexed for these sequences that have a replacementish sound to them.     There are normal Rugolo cues in it, so it's either a mixture or it's okay and I'm just letting my imagination run wild.

Some loud Heyes "chase" stuff in Act IV that I know I have complained about in the past for one brief bit.      I think I'm prepared to say this one is a mixture but not quite as high as "Wings Of An Angel" was.    This is at least 80-85% intact in a worst-case scenario since if I'm right in all cases where I *think* it could be replacement, it would be 7 minutes tops of the 51 overall for about three cues.      

Is Heyes' name in any of the ending credits so far, Jack?

No, not a one.

^ Didn't Heyes only get credit on the original release of S2V1? I never watched the original release but I'm pretty sure that only Ruggolo is listed in the credits on the corrected S2V1 and the S2V2 set.

"Three Cheers For Little Boy Blue"-No replacement music, 100% intact (unless one minor jukebox scene is replacement.   But no Heyes).

Kind of lost in the shuffle is that these S3 episodes no longer have that title card tag after the end credits as was the case with S2 with the announcer giving us one final "The Fugitive".

Last critique for tonight since my avatar should tell you what gets first precedence with me for viewing this evening. :)

"All The Scared Rabbits"-No music alteration except perhaps for jukebox in restaurant and car radio source music.    That means of nine episodes I have watched in this, seven definitely are okay with no replacement, one is questionable to some degree for seven minutes and three cues, and one is about 30-40% replacement.     Fairly good ratio so far by my reckoning.

How many episodes in this volume ?

15 episodes like each half-season set.     All four seasons of the show had 30 episodes.

So we are over halfway done and it is looking very good, but I am not gonna get my hopes up until you are done !
I went ahead and put the S3V1 in my cart at Amazon but am waiting of course !

You are doing a great job Jack !

Well, since the music is looking better, I might as well remind you all to look at the read side of your DVDs.

The 'flipper disc holders' are made of some sort of volatile plastic which seeps a fine film on both front and back surfaces. If you look closely at your DVDs at an angle, you may see a light haze or thin cloud on the disc(s). It wipes away with a gentle sweep of a clean microfiber cloth, straight from center outward.

The flippers themselves don't give up their slightly greasy film as easily.

This VOC problem in clear DVD cases has been written about extensively in other threads by myself and others. It was a particularly destructive problem among the first three seasons of Have Gun Will Travel. Some folks, who purchased and never opened their HGWT for a couple of years, found the air borne plasticides had etched into the read side of the discs. No amount of cleaning removed it all.  Some have speculated that it's the high heat from the shrink-wrap that has set these chemicals in motion.

This is just a reminder to check your discs when you first buy them and periodically inspect them over long-term storage.

I bought a S3V1 at Amazon and one locally today at Best Buy... BOTH had the film on the flippers and at least two discs of each set had a thin haze.  You might want to take a quick look at your discs and comment, if so moved.

Now, back to the note-by-note music analysis. Thank you for your time.

Well after the misery of Game 1 of the World Series, I might as well watch a couple more!

"An Apple A Day"-Intact, no replacement music.

I have just started "Set Fire To A Straw Man" and I get thrown for a loop after the opening credits where it starts off sounding like a blasting Heyes cue dialed down, but as it goes on I eventually hear the "Girard" theme that Rugolo composed so maybe I'm being a paranoic on that one.    An expert should check that one out.

"Well after the misery of Game 1 of the World Series, I might as well watch a couple more!"

Better get a couple of more DVD sets ready.  It's going to be a long Series.  

We'll get even tomorrow against phony Pedro. :)

I think there was only one other brief moment in "Set Fire To A Straw Man" that sounded odd, but if it was replacement it was only a few seconds.   Otherwise that was an intact episode.   And "Stranger In A Mirror" sounds completely intact as well (more familiar cues for me in this one that are TZ including a LOT of "The Invaders" and "Back There").

So that is now 9 of 11 episodes that are apparently untouched ?

Wow!  If this is how the ratio is going to be the rest of the way through then I guess I'm buying a set.  Great news, Jack.  And thanks for going to all this trouble.  I can't tell you how valuable these updates have been.  And I'm positive I'm not just speaking for myself.

Gary "at this point I think we can safely say this set has taken on the characteristics of S2, V1 - and that's great news!" O.

Jack,
Many thanks for your hard work and reporting to us about the music. I'm waiting for my copy to arrive (should be today) and you've got me looking forward to getting into this set. I can't say the same for S2v2, as I still have a number of those unwatched!

Hope so ;)  After CC got roughed up, it's going be more interesting than NY fans might like, imo.  Going back to Philly with a split at best.

Back OT: Ditto on Gary's & Sam's posts.  Jack, where do we send your free Amazon gift certificate for your reviews?

I decided to wait for "Santa" for this one but it's a lot tougher decision after your reviews.  Either way, I'll have this set in the collection but for me, it's mainly a backup for my alt set.  However, based on your info, I'd recommend this as a buy for the majority that read this Bd.

One thing about doing A/B que comparisons that I found interesting: "Cry Uncle" from S2V1: There was a scene where Kimble was walking toward a gas sta (maybe it was the kid) and there was a loud que at that point in the episode.  I remember saying at the time "That's a Heyes que."  I was wrong after checking my original episode.  Rare occasions in this show, imo, but an original que sometimes can be mistaken for a Heyes que.

10-4,  You ain't speaking for yourself   Definitely good news about this vol.  I'm like you though about this whole thing....can't go back to the past but it's ironic that this had to happen at all (subs/Heyes) considering the apparent % of original ques left intact in this latest set.

After "Moon Child", "Man on a String", "Brass Ring", and "Escape to Black", I guess I'm slow to pull the "buy" trigger for these sets.

I'm really enjoying this thread. Bought S1 Vol 1 & 2.

I rented all of S2 from Neflix because of the replacement music and got the early version discs of Vol 1.

Looking forward to buying all of S3.

I didnt get any of season 2, but if this ratio holds out I will get S3V1.  I just want to get as much of this show as I can as originally broadcast in the highest quality possible.  I can live with the incidental music changes (jukebox, radio etc.).  I can watch the altered episodes from my alternate copies.  Hope this holds out.

That's an interesting premise. I currently have all of season 1 and the replacements for season 2 volume 1. So if CBS has fiqured out what they are doing now, I could end up buying all of seasons 3 and 4. Leaving me with the decision of either buying season 2 volume 2 to get the improved video while sacrificing the audio due to music replacements, or trying to rangle up the missing 15 episodes from some alternate copies/source.

I've never seen a single episode of the Fugitive and there are several things ahead of it in the queue, so I probably won't even get to it until all of the remaining seasons are out. This makes it all tricky for me because I have no clue as to whether the music repalcements will bother me or not since I'm not willing to jump ahead and try a questionable episode in season 2 for fear it might ruin some part of the plot by seeing it out of order.