Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Other Diversions › Apple and Macintosh › Native BluRay Support!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Native BluRay Support!

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
In Pro Apps...  =(

http://www.apple.com/au/finalcutstudio/whats-new.html

Cool, you can burn to a BluRay natively in FCS but Apple still doesnt sell a BTO BluRay burner.  Explain that one Jobsy!

To be clear, a few Pro Apps already had limited BD support this is just expanding it and making it native and more visible.
post #2 of 30
 Isn't BluRay still a "bag of hurt"? 
post #3 of 30
Yes, but now you can put stuff in the bag with your Mac.
post #4 of 30
Still no Apple authoring solution as DVD Studio Pro didn't receive an upgrade. 
post #5 of 30
www.makemkv.com/ 
This software can best be described as a Handbrake that supports Blu-ray and has a Mac OS X version.  The resulting files can be played back using programs such as Plex.

Note I don't have a Blu-ray drive like this one store.fastmac.com/product_info.php and have not tried the above software, but it is getting good reviews.  Caveat: for it to work the BD drive has to be able to write something (CDs is fine).  If it is totally a ROM drive in all supported formats, OS X won't allow MakeMKV to access it -- see http://www.makemkv.com/osxmmc/
post #6 of 30
Boy Genius claims BD support in iTunes 9. Possible BS but, I'm reporting it just in case.
post #7 of 30
Steve Jobs:
Quote:
- Blu-Ray software is a mess, and Apple will wait until sales really start to take off before implementing it. 
So reports MacRumors, the occasion being an Apple internal "town hall" meeting which took place this week.
post #8 of 30
Thread Starter 
Thanks for that heads up Ted.  At least he didn't say 'Never' =)  Remember tho that when Apple says they see a 'Mess', that leads to an opportunity for being a white knight 6 months later showing everyone else what they did wrong.  Nobody disputes that for movies that downloads are the future.  But I still maintain that BluRay is going to be the future for portable file movement that is bigger than flash drives but smaller than hard disks, and cheaper to mass mail out to boot.  Time will tell if they get on board or not.  Until then I will be rocking in a corner in the fetal position crying....

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/31/steve-jobs-at-apple-town-hall-meeting-google-adobe-next-iphone-2010-macs-and-more/
post #9 of 30
What are the odds of blu-ray native on an iMac within the next two years?It just does not seem right that one can edit a nice HD video with Final Cut and then not be able to put it on a blu-ray unless I use some third party drive that may or may not work.
post #10 of 30
 Who knows.  Apple is selling more 27" iMacs than they can manufacture without a BD drive. They have no incentive to hurry.

Once the software suport is there, I don't see why you'd have trouble with an external burner -- I've never had problems with external DVD burners.
post #11 of 30
Except for the few people authoring Blu Ray discs, is Blu Ray in a home or office computer anything more than a spec-sheet bulletpoint?
post #12 of 30
1920x1080 monitors are quickly becoming standard. My current desktop has a Blu-Ray reader that also burns CDs and DVDs. The biggest problem is software; there's no free player out there like VLC for SD-DVD, and the commercial software has to keep cranking out new keys as updates because the studios are dumping them as soon as they're cracked.
post #13 of 30
I guess my social circle is too old school: do people watch movies on computers? I'm almost to where I think media drives aren't needed on computers: much less needing newer and fancier ones.
post #14 of 30
Thread Starter 
Again, I don't merely want Bluray support 'just for' movies.  I want a "super super drive" for the professional market that combines packaged movie playback along with RW-Blu media that is apple approved and supported from firmware to OS to application, not some hack that sort of allows 3rd party drives to kind of work.  I realize this is not what the hordes want.  But it's certainly something that Apples "Pro" users, particularly their Final Cut Studio users (I use adobe and iMovie personally) would want.

The bottom line is that I question how long Apple will continue to delude themselves into thinking they can support the very small pro market while catering to the average iPod citizen.  When you compare markets of tens of thousands of high price items versus hundreds of millions of high MARGIN items, something's gotta give.

More hot air:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=5928
post #15 of 30
I wouldn't object to a 50GB backup disc option, to complement my hard drive backups. Although in short order flash memory of comparable size could be price competitive.

But you drive to the heart of my question: does Apple still want this high-end media market? Will they let it go without a fight? How will they survive without it? (currently, it seems "quite well")
post #16 of 30
It ain't coming -- email from El Jobso via 9to5mac: Steve Jobs email
post #17 of 30
Wow.  "Youtube supports HD".. yes, at insanely low bitrates that looks like a--!

Sam has it right.  I have a client who uses a lot of Adobe, but switched from Premiere to FCS a few years ago.  They recently landed all FCS3.  It's a pretty hard sell to them that they can develop their content for something but they can't output it worth s---, unless they export the file, take it over to a PC as a finished product, or if they walk it into Toast. 

For the end user, a vast majority, it may not matter right now.  For those buying FCS, it matters.  I don't know, the whole thing just strikes me as ridiculous at this point.  Far more so then debating with Adobe.
post #18 of 30
Just like I said in the other thread: you have to think like Jobs / Apple. Media is dead. Push the HD content to the cloud. For Johnny Flip Video, filming the kids and the cats and the Disney World vacation, this is easy -- arguably easier than making an actual disc.

For the pro? Sounds like Apple is irrelevant for Blu Ray production. Does this affect TV or cinema production?
post #19 of 30
It potentially effects what I call "mid-level" pros in a big way.  There are several who digitally edit together small TV shows (think Syndication or Cable) are moving quickly to the direction of capturing in HD, editing in HD, and outputting BD to send to their end target.   It is easier to do that then it is to shoot a hard drive across the country or city.    i have two programs we take care of here that record almost everything using RedOne Cameras (which are great stuff) Edit in FCS, and right now, they move the content off to a PC for BD authoring once they have a final product.

 

Now, this isn't an unworkable solution, but it is an annoying one.  The longer it goes on, the more interesting it is for them to just grab Premiere on the PC, especially now that it has native RED support. 

Yes, it's still possible to us FCS to do you work, then output then take it into something else to make final product.  But then, what the hell was the point of FCS?  You could do all that in Adobe and save yourself the $999 you just shelled out on FCS.

The thing is, Apple has no incentive to really work on the BD output interface, which means anything anyone does, Adobe or Toast or whatever is done outside of the apple guidelines.   Which is fine, it just means that since it's not a native support, you've got a lot of Apple-afficiandos who don' t view it so kindly to have an external burning device.  And sorry, but burning Bluray at USB speed isn't necessarily ideal.

It's apple's perogative.  Realistically, less and less money comes into their pocket from the mac, and more and more from phones, mobile media (ipod/ipad), and content.

So, this may not be the highest priority.  But graphic designers and video editors were at one point their complete break and butter.  One of the things they hoped to gain when they bought up NeXT was to gobble up those who were using SGI and other platforms.

post #20 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattCR View Post



So, this may not be the highest priority.  But graphic designers and video editors were at one point their complete break and butter.


Your comments on the mid-range pros is interesting. This comment caught my eye, since my wife is a freelance graphic designer and 100% Mac for her Photoshop, etc work. I talked with her about this this week, noting that everything I've read in recent years says that Adobe's products are now superior on Windows. Mac is now the secondary, inferior platform for graphic design, it seems. And I just put it out there, that if she thought she needed the best, fastest Adobe products, it would be worth examining if a switch to Windows makes sense.

Practically, my wife isn't doing work that requires the ultimate in performance, and the overall Mac experience is best for her. But it seems Apple is ceding the professional platform for the consumer market.
post #21 of 30
 Bob Cringely was claiming that wedding video people were huge users of FCS and for obvious reasons they do target their output to disc, be it DVD or BD.  Cringely was convinced that Apple would lose their business without BD authoring support, but probably what's saving Apple is that  a large percentage of their clientele just wants DVD, because either they haven't gone BD, or clearly no every single relative they are sending a copy to hasn't and they don't want to deal with multiple formats.  

I don't understand though why Apple doesn't just add BD authoring support to FCP -- MacPro owners can certainly add their own BD burners.  

Matt, why do the media producers in your example need PCs?  Couldn't they accomplish the same thing on a MacPro via Boot Camp or even VMWare?
post #22 of 30
Quote:
 

Matt, why do the media producers in your example need PCs?  Couldn't they accomplish the same thing on a MacPro via Boot Camp or even VMWare?


Here's the problem with using Boot Camp like this for the solution.  You end up buying a copy of Windows  + A copy of Adobe Premiere for Windows, and you end up doing all of your work in Windows.  You also end up buying an external USB Blueray burner.. which again, those are much slower and less reliable then an internal burner.  (And if you're thinking:  Really?  On a MacPro you can change your own devices, so why not.. that's true, however, I've found there is a lot of resistence from people in the idea of buying things to put inside their mac that doesn't come specifically from Apple; external, anything connects is OK, but internal?  It's more of a "we don't know about this" problem then a realistic one, but that's what Apple has told these people all along: don't mess with the guts!  And they've bought it because past experiences trying to change video cards to things not at apple store, but listed as "Mac ready" didn't always work as planned)

If your'e going to spend all of your time inside of a Windows setup, why did you just pay for a Mac?  Instead, you've just doubled over your cost so you can claim to have a Mac that you use for just day to day stuff, but all of your editing is now on the PC.   Again, if that's the issue, you'd just get an iPad, save your money over a PowerMac, and do your editing on a PC.

 

I do know at least two Wedding videographers who are now making a point of offering HD video to their people.  I don't deal with them enough to know how well that works out.  While I'm sure many people still want DVD, with high def becoming the standard, more and more people expect that memory to be held in it.  And even if it's recorded in HD, and output once as BD, it's easier to start with a BD-edition and go to a DVD for output, preserving a high quality.. because you can't go the other way, you can't start with 480i source and magically make it high def.  But you can take 1080p source material and down convert it for output.  

Again, Apple holds onto these people because it's what they are used to.  But it's becoming more frustrating for them as time goes on.  One of the shows I work with, a cable show is produced at 1080p, and then they output it, and send it off to Atlanta for broadcast. Sending down a BD is easy, and makes it easy on the other end.  Uploading 17GB for an hour worth of programming?  Yeah, US bandwidth isnt' fast enough to make that a task they'd want to attempt.  For right now, they have a Windows PC along side their Mac.  They take the edited output from the mac, go to the PC, the PC works on the menuing etc. for the BD/DVD, and they output masters from there.  Now, when they send the disc down for broadcast, it doesn't contain any of that stuff, but like a lot of small programming, they provide "discs to buy" for the audience if people want to "buy an episode" at about $14 a pop.  (this is a cooking show).  

post #23 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattCR View Post
Here's the problem with using Boot Camp like this for the solution.  You end up buying a copy of Windows  + A copy of Adobe Premiere for Windows, and you end up doing all of your work in Windows.  You also end up buying an external USB Blueray burner.. which again, those are much slower and less reliable then an internal burner.  (And if you're thinking:  Really?  On a MacPro you can change your own devices, so why not.. that's true, however, I've found there is a lot of resistence from people in the idea of buying things to put inside their mac that doesn't come specifically from Apple; external, anything connects is OK, but internal?  It's more of a "we don't know about this" problem then a realistic one, but that's what Apple has told these people all along: don't mess with the guts!  And they've bought it because past experiences trying to change video cards to things not at apple store, but listed as "Mac ready" didn't always work as planned)

Obviously you are speaking from experience, but some of this is just bizarre -- do people really leave drive bays in their MacPros empty, considering anyone who has ever added or swapped hard drives on the MacPro knows it is a downright pleasure to do?  And clearly Windows + Premier costs less than a Windows machine + premier. 

Of course as you know I fully agree that Apple should be supporting Blu-ray yesterday.  
post #24 of 30
Thread Starter 
Did the Open Source guys beat Apple to a Bluray encoder?  I can't remember if Apple has an encoder or not in FCS.  I know most people are using Toast.

http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/?p=328
post #25 of 30
What is possibly more frustrating is that Apple is (still) listed as a supporting company on the BDA's Board of Directors....
post #26 of 30
Thread Starter 

Somehow I don't believe these are the droids I'm looking for:

http://www.onlineprnews.com/news/34626-1273217597-an-allinone-mac-bluray-dvd-ripper-and-video-converter-unveiled.html

 

 

Quote:
All the update is for free and warm after-service is available at the whole day of the whole year.

 

All ur base r belong to us?

post #27 of 30

Jack, their press contact, doesn't know Jack about the English language.  I sure hope their programmers did something other than repackage the already available free tools.

post #28 of 30


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattCR View Post

It potentially effects what I call "mid-level" pros in a big way.  There are several who digitally edit together small TV shows (think Syndication or Cable) are moving quickly to the direction of capturing in HD, editing in HD, and outputting BD to send to their end target.   It is easier to do that then it is to shoot a hard drive across the country or city.    i have two programs we take care of here that record almost everything using RedOne Cameras (which are great stuff) Edit in FCS, and right now, they move the content off to a PC for BD authoring once they have a final product.

 

Now, this isn't an unworkable solution, but it is an annoying one.  The longer it goes on, the more interesting it is for them to just grab Premiere on the PC, especially now that it has native RED support. 

Yes, it's still possible to us FCS to do you work, then output then take it into something else to make final product.  But then, what the hell was the point of FCS?  You could do all that in Adobe and save yourself the $999 you just shelled out on FCS.

The thing is, Apple has no incentive to really work on the BD output interface, which means anything anyone does, Adobe or Toast or whatever is done outside of the apple guidelines.   Which is fine, it just means that since it's not a native support, you've got a lot of Apple-afficiandos who don' t view it so kindly to have an external burning device.  And sorry, but burning Bluray at USB speed isn't necessarily ideal.

It's apple's perogative.  Realistically, less and less money comes into their pocket from the mac, and more and more from phones, mobile media (ipod/ipad), and content.

So, this may not be the highest priority.  But graphic designers and video editors were at one point their complete break and butter.  One of the things they hoped to gain when they bought up NeXT was to gobble up those who were using SGI and other platforms.

 

A complete bundle of Sony Vegas plus training tools and a Pioneer blu-ray burner is avalilable from Video Guys for $649. With Vegas you can burn a blu-ray directly from the time line, or use the included DVD Architect to author a blu-ray with menu's and such. Vegas now supports the Red One and projects at 4k resolution.

 

Doug
 

post #29 of 30

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/30/steve-jobs-suggests-blu-ray-not-coming-to-mac-anytime-soon/

 

Steve Jobs pours more cold water on hopes for an official Blu-ray solution coming from Apple. 

For all I know he is right -- the main hole in his argument I see is that large junks of the country, including New York City where I live, has horrifically slow/bad broadband that is insufficient for 720P streaming. Not to mention that most Internet originated 720P certainly including that of iTunes, is so low in bitrate it looks worse than upscaled 480P DVDs. Sad.

post #30 of 30

He is right, in so far as people value convenience over absolute quality. In my modest experience, Blu Ray is far and away better than anything I've downloaded / streamed.  But we see the template with music: CDs are still a better value, being generally cheaper and higher quality, but downloaded, lossy-compressed audio is winning. And with Netflix and Hulu offering services that can be watched on almost any device, online video is starting to become convenient.

 

And having used a Tivo for a few years, I find DVD & Blu-ray players clunky and annoying to use in comparison. I could be tempted by a Tivo-like experience for movies that are close (enough) to Blu-ray quality.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Apple and Macintosh
Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Other Diversions › Apple and Macintosh › Native BluRay Support!