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Help with Kitten training

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
We've got two new kittens; not quite four months old. They're great, lots of fun, generally well behaved. However, the smaller, younger one is giving us some troubles that we're baffled by. I could use some pointers to kitten behavioral info, whether it's a pet forum, "cats for dummies book", a "cat whispered" TV show, or your own expertise.

The young one, Dash, is peeing in play areas on occaision. Can't figure it out. This evening I was playing with him -- chase the springy toy, a favorite. We had just chased from the carpet onto a big pillow they like to pounce and play on. I move the springy toy over to a scratchy post they also love to pounce and play on . Dash seemed to be taking a while to muster up a pounce, and I realized (too late) he was squatting on his pillow. When I hopped over, he was peeing profusely on the big pillow.

I didn't have my spray bottle, so I yelled and clapped my hands. He didn't budge. In exasperation, I swatted him on the side and he ran off.

About a week ago, he let loose on a papasan cushion (double barrel, there); again it's something they sleep and play on.

My wife and I are baffled by this. We'd heard cats won't mess in areas they play or sleep in, but Dash confounds that. And today -- I don't know. We were playing, having a good time, and he just decides it's time to pee on the pillow he's playing on.

Ideas?
post #2 of 22
Does Dash have a litterbox?  You might have to bring him over and introduce him to the box.  Through instinct/smell my Baby Scotty found the box instantly (which most cats do).  And I got him at about 2 months old.  It seems too early for kitty to be marking his territory.  Cats do need to be fixed by six months. 
post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
We've had him for 6 weeks now. He's litter trained and was fixed before he was 2 months old, so no marking is expected.

During this incident, the litterbox was 15 feet from him, in his line of sight. It's as if, in the midst of playing, he realized he had to go RIGHT NOW! And did.
post #4 of 22
Has he been to a vet and been checked out for a urinary tract infection?  Inappropriate urination is always sending a message and it's your job to figure it out.  Do you have one of those automatic litter boxes? Some cats will never use them.  If the cat is leaving little piddles in many spots (you didn't mention it), then it is an infection.

Unfortunately once something has been marked once, it's hard to get the smell out and since it was a pillow, I'd suggest getting rid of it, otherwise the smell is an invitation to repeat.  I'd also suggest a trip to the vet.

Never strike a cat, that won't communicate well.  Try a squirt bottle.  The can't didn't react to clapping hands or shouting?  Any chance it's deaf?
post #5 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF View Post

We've had him for 6 weeks now. He's litter trained and was fixed before he was 2 months old, so no marking is expected.

During this incident, the litterbox was 15 feet from him, in his line of sight. It's as if, in the midst of playing, he realized he had to go RIGHT NOW! And did.

You know, this is a kitten, it's a baby.  Your last idea could be true.  Every time this happens, pick him up and put him in the litterbox with a soothing voice.  Pet him in the box.  Do this even if he's already completed the job.  If you see him using the box tell him what a good boy he is.
post #6 of 22
Thread Starter 
Johnny, good thoughts. He is a kitten and we use either water spray bottles or noise (clapping & snapping fingers) for aversion. (Dash is not deaf) I didn't have spray bottle and he ignored the clapping / snapping; so I smacked him. Not what I prefer to do. In the moment, I didn't think about lifting him to get him into the litter box.

I don't think it's an infection. He's been the vet recently for other issues and we've not had reason to think of a urinary tract infection. He's not having lots of little accidents. It's isolated, big incidents. Like today: squatting on his play pillow, in the middle of playing, and letting loose with full-volume urination.

We've seen how once something is marked it can be forever marked. We've got some specialty cleaning product and hope to save this pillow.

Maybe he's just a little kitten, maybe not quite the brightest fur-ball in the bunch :) and he'll outgrow it. He and Mango are generally great cats, well behaved, fun, affectionate, and get along together. But Dash is a bit more trouble at times and we want to be good owners and train him effectively.
post #7 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF View Post

We've seen how once something is marked it can be forever marked. We've got some specialty cleaning product and hope to save this pillow.

Maybe he's just a little kitten, maybe not quite the brightest fur-ball in the bunch :) and he'll outgrow it. He and Mango are generally great cats, well behaved, fun, affectionate, and get along together. But Dash is a bit more trouble at times and we want to be good owners and train him effectively.

I would suggest for the time being buying some very cheap pillows  Second, start taking him to the litter box 2-3 times a day and stroke him and tell him what a good boy he is, whether he pees or not.  If you find him using the litter box, do the same.  Get him to associate the box with good feelings.

Have you changed the type or brand of litter recently?  Are there any changes in the household that might be bothering him?  If you're using an automatic litter box I'd recommend not using it.  Many cats aren't bothered by them, but some are and will avoid the box.  With only two cats I presume the boxes are generally clean and odor free.  Clumping litter is recommended because when you scoop you are removing all the urine.  Cats want clean litter boxes.  I know I'm stating the obvious, but I want to cover all the bases I can think of.

Does he seem agitated or nervous.  Your vet might be able to prescribe something to calm him.  When a cat is inappropriately peeing and not sick, he's talking to you.  Unfortunately, it's hard to understand pee language.  Try think of anything that would be bothering him.  If this continues, a trip to the vet is in order.  Since he's recently been neutered check his scrotum for inflammation or other sign of infection.  This is usually not a problem, but it's surgery, after all.
post #8 of 22
Do you have a single litter box that both kittens share? If so, try adding a second litter box. We had a similar problem when we had two cats -- in our case the female would sometimes decide to pee on a rug in our entry way. Once we added a second litter box, she stopped the behavior.
post #9 of 22
Thread Starter 
One litter box for two cats, in the basement. Waste is emptied every morning. Litter refreshed every month, maybe.

We also have a temp litter box on the first floor; this was to make sure they had a place to go when playing upstairs. We've been moving the temp box closer to the main box, in the basement, and will remove it completely in a week or two.

I'll suggest to my wife that we place Dash in the box periodically. Experience is that he doesn't like that; we've done it sporadically and he pushes out immediately if it's not on his own terms.
post #10 of 22
If I were you I would still trash that pillow.
post #11 of 22
You can usually find lots of information about cat behavior at

http://icanhascheezburger.com/

Too bad most of them are examples of bad kitty behavior. 
post #12 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Merryfield View Post

Do you have a single litter box that both kittens share? If so, try adding a second litter box. We had a similar problem when we had two cats -- in our case the female would sometimes decide to pee on a rug in our entry way. Once we added a second litter box, she stopped the behavior.

I like this idea.  It might solve the problem.
post #13 of 22
I know it's already been suggested, but first have the kitten checked for a UTI or kidney infection--if this is a new problem it could be medical even though you don't think it is.  Second, you should probably have a box for each cat.  Some cats don't like to share.  One of ours will, the other one won't.  Is your box covered?  Some cats don't like those, either.  They are great for us as we don't have to view the waste and it keeps the smell in.  But, from the cat's perspective, it keeps the smell in!  Try an open box.  While the kittens are still so small you should probably have a box on each floor of your house that they're allowed to be.  I don't know how far the box in the basement is from their play area, but it may actually be too far for a baby to make it.

About a month after we got our second kitten she started peeing everywhere.  EVERYWHERE.  Including on your lap if you were holding her.  She had been using the box prior to this, so we knew she would.  Unfortunately the vet concluded there was no medical reason for it and nothing we tried worked and we tried everything--clumping litter, non-clumping litter, scrubbing the box daily, giving treats if we saw her in it, placing her in it.  Nothing.  She nearly became an outside only cat!  One day I went to a small pet supply store for dog treats and for some reason I told them about our cat.  They suggested a litter called "Cat Attract."  Holy crap was that stuff expensive!  $20 for a small bag!  But it came with a guarantee--said my cat would use it or I'd get my money back.  I figured we'd try it and I'd come back in a couple of days to get my $20.  Nope, the cat liked it.  She started using the box and hasn't had a single (urination) "accident" in over a year.  Fortunately we were able to slowly use less and less of the cat attract.  Now we put in regular litter with a thin layer of cat attract on top to draw her in--but we still have to clean the box daily, and immediately if we see the other cat use it.

Your temp litter box on the first floor is a good idea, and it is recommended that you slowly move it closer to the one you want them to use before discarding it altogether, but that assumes that your kittens are using it and also moving closer to the main box each time they go.  If one of your kittens is not using it consistently why are you planning to remove it in a week or two?
post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle Schmid View Post

I know it's already been suggested, but first have the kitten checked for a UTI or kidney infection
We picked up the kit from the vet tonight.

The temp box has been on the first floor for about two weeks now and is used by both cats. We're gradually moving it down to the basement, to the "real" litter box, and then removing it.

Dash doesn't have constant accidents; he's mostly good. So checking these things like infection; maybe a second box; maybe the cat attract litter are all good ideas for my wife and me.

Thanks for the ideas.
post #15 of 22
He's still pretty young, sounds like he may just be excited from all the playing and hasn't quite developed the bladder control he needs yet.

As for not marking, getting him fixed won't necessarily stop that behavior. I had a male cat about 15 years ago, fixed at six months (vet wouldn't do it any earlier) who still marked his territory.

Strictly a house cat, but he would mark whenever he saw another cat out the window. Thankfully it was a sliding glass door, so easy to clean up, but the instinct was still there.
post #16 of 22
As Stan says, neutering does not eliminate marking. Some will still do this occasionally.

I've also read that you should have one more litter box than the number of cats in the household.  So if you have two cats, the recommendation is that you should have three litter boxes available.
post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
We were informed that neutering very young (<2 months) effectively prevents them from developing the marking habit. (fingers crossed)

I've not heard litter boxes =n+1. That probably won't happen.
post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan View Post
As for not marking, getting him fixed won't necessarily stop that behavior. I had a male cat about 15 years ago, fixed at six months (vet wouldn't do it any earlier) who still marked his territory.

Today, at least with recently educated vets, they will spay/neuter much earlier.  8 weeks or or a weight of at least 2 lbs seems to be accepted.  If a cat has started marking before neutering he may develop the habit so that when the biological imperative is removed, he continues the habit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF View Post

We were informed that neutering very young (<2 months) effectively prevents them from developing the marking habit. (fingers crossed)
What is removed is the biological urge to mark.  There may be other issues causing the cat to urinate.  It also takes about a month, I think, for all the hormones to dissipate.
post #19 of 22
Thread Starter 
Received further advice on multiple litter boxes. So we're doing that. Trying to get the cat to use the UTI kit.

The older cat has figured out how to remove his breakaway collar. He's chipped, so if he runs away sans collar, he could still be identified. Not sure how to explain to him that the collar is for his own good.
post #20 of 22
Thread Starter 
Another kitten / cat question: We need a cat-door that can be closed up securely. Any suggestions?

Cats have litter boxes in basement. We put them in the basement for the night and when we leave for vacation. To that end, we put an open arched cat-door in the basement door. They can come and go during the day as they please. At night, we have a plastic cover that attaches by Velcro to the arch door, blocking it to close them in.

Except about a month ago, they got big enough and smart enough and figured out how to tear the plastic blocker off! Now they open this door at will. It's become routine. We shut them up at night, and they open the door sometime later and are waiting for us in the morning.

This is no good. For their safety, we need to be able to lock them up at times. For example, we'll be painting a room this Fall, and need to close the kitties into the basement so they can sniff or eat the paint, or walk through the roller tray, or etc.

Thanks!
post #21 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF View Post

Another kitten / cat question: We need a cat-door that can be closed up securely. Any suggestions?
Go to a pet store and you will see cat/dog doors.  The ones we have used in the past have a hard panel that slides into slots from the top and lowers down and blocks the door.  If your cats can remove the panel, then they deserve their own tv show.  These doors also have a (optional) heavy plastic sheet that fits inside the door.  The cat pushes thru it to come and go.  You would have a training period to get them adjusted to this and we don't bother with it as our only cat doors are interior.
post #22 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the idea. We checked again other commercial solutions, but they would require a whole new basement door. But we were able to kludge a lock on our existing cat door.

They're none too pleased with this loss of freedom at night, but they'll get used to it again.
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