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"Star Trek XII Movie Sequel" Discussion Thread

post #1 of 41
7/5/09 at 4:07pm
Thread Starter 
With all this Media created hype about Khan. I think this "Star Trek : Alternate Reality " needs to establish the Klingon's. Even if its not for the full movie. I would like to see the Klingon Empire vs. the Federation. I would like to see the same evil cunning Klingon's like in TOS instead of TNG cavemen barbarian Klingons. That IMO that never would have made it into space. And yes have them keep the pronounced ridges like in ST:TMP.  Any thoughts on what you would like to see done with the sequel?
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post #2 of 41
7/6/09 at 8:20am
NO Khan, for starters.  I'd actually like to see them "explore strange new worlds, seek out new life and new civilizations" etc.  I also don't really care if there are Klingons or not. 

The whole point of creating a new alternate timeline, I would think, was to allow us to see something, well, NEW.
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post #3 of 41
7/6/09 at 9:15am
 You beat me to it for posting about this topic!

Yes, I thought the point of this alternate reality was so they could pursue new stories. If they did a straight restart with new actors doing Kirk and Spock in the Prime Universe, then we'd know what was going to happen, the Organians, the Gorn incident, Balok, Nancy Crater, Trelane, Commander Kor, The Doomsday Machine, etc...

Though, a redo of The Doomsday Machine would make for an exciting movie. No villian, battle action, etc. Classic Kirk outwitting a computer essentially.
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post #4 of 41
7/6/09 at 9:31am
Can't do Kahn, because you'd really be doing "Space Seed" way before WOK, and so it wouldn't have the same impact.

Quote:

I would like to see the same evil cunning Klingon's like in TOS instead of TNG cavemen barbarian Klingons.



I don't know about that.  I can't remember TNG, but one of the big plots of DS9 was that there were numerous klingons who were smart, crafty warriors.. but those who fought their battles politically and with dishonesty had pretty much taken over the empire by out-maneuvering them.  There were some great episodes where they were shown up, however..  

 

There are certain things I don't want to see, because I think they would bring nothing to the movie and pollute the series at the same time.  Those items are:
 

* No Q.  Q would be aware of the alternate reality, and as such, the whole thing would be crap.

* Let's leave out old Spock from the main timeline, his involvement would also screw things up.

* Avoid time travel as much as possible.. preferrably, none.

* No Khan, as above.. it just wouldn't make sense.

I do like the idea of the doomsday machine, that's an interesting one, potentially. but I don't know how you'd lenthen it out to feature film length.  Klingons are a likely good subject.   Romulans are now basically gone.  So, the Romulan-Klingon war that held Klingons occupied for some time, and at least in DS9 mythos may have involved Cardassians did not happen.  That could be interesting.

Gorn are also interesting potential enemies.

I think they are better off if they mix it up and use lots of completely different situations fans have no knowledge of at all, in the end.. some alien we've almost never seen or had very small mention.  Tholians, anyone?

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post #5 of 41
7/6/09 at 9:43am

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattCR View Post

Romulans are now basically gone.  So, the Romulan-Klingon war that held Klingons occupied for some time, and at least in DS9 mythos may have involved Cardassians did not happen.  That could be interesting.


Romulans are not gone at all. Romulus is destroyed in the future of the new timeline (assuming the event still occurs). Romulus and Romulans are alive and well in the new Kirk-era timeline. However, that doesn't mean they should use Romulans as the villains again. I don't think they should go back to that particular well again.

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post #6 of 41
7/6/09 at 10:32am
I vote for more Tholians and Gorn. If they have to have a "major" adversary, make it the Romulans. The Klingons held this role in the original timeline and are pretty tired by now. The Romulans never really got much screen time (with the exception of TNG) and I would love to see them get more.
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post #7 of 41
7/6/09 at 11:15am
Thread Starter 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulDA View Post

NO Khan, for starters.  I'd actually like to see them "explore strange new worlds, seek out new life and new civilizations" etc.  I also don't really care if there are Klingons or not. 

The whole point of creating a new alternate timeline, I would think, was to allow us to see something, well, NEW.
 

I think O& K are thinking in terms of re-inventing everything. Which is fine in some cases. But I think most fans don't want to see retreads like a reimaged TWOK part 2.
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post #8 of 41
7/6/09 at 12:11pm
 We *definitely* do not need a rethread of Khan at this point.

Instead, I would *love* to see a re-imagined "Errand of Mercy" - but this time with the full Federation/Klingon space battle prior to the Organians' intervention.  

In general, just about any story from TOS's first year -- with the exception of "Space Seed" and/or "City on the Edge of Forever" -- is ripe for "re-imagining".

 
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post #9 of 41
7/6/09 at 12:37pm
Thread Starter 
My only problem with a Doomsday Machine movie at this point is the fact that its too much like V'ger & the Whale Ship in IV. I think an expanded Gorn movie would make a good second movie. But I think a new threat or situation on another world might be cool. Maybe a Galileo 7 mixed with another episode or story. But the more I think about it the more they need to explore new territory.
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post #10 of 41
7/6/09 at 1:01pm
I am not saying I would want to see a re-tread of Khan. But why couldn't there be a new Space Seed story told. The time line was not altered until after the Bontany Bay was launched (1996). Presumably the craft is still out there lost in space waiting for some fool to discover it.

I could seee a story where Khan's ship is discovered, but not by the Enterprise. He succeeds in taking over that ship and then makes back to Earth or the Mars Colony and then proceeds to start a revolution. I can see that type of story being very plausible and have to potential to make very intertesting movie.

Of course in that senerio they really couldn't call it "Space Seed" could they. :)
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post #11 of 41
7/7/09 at 8:59am
I just want a quality science fiction story that presents food for thought... along the lines of WNMHGB, Taste Of Armegeddon, Devil in the Dark, etc.
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post #12 of 41
7/9/09 at 7:48am


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Seven View Post

I just want a quality science fiction story that presents food for thought... along the lines of WNMHGB, Taste Of Armegeddon, Devil in the Dark, etc.

I concur--I just don't want a remake of any of those.
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post #13 of 41
7/9/09 at 8:27am
 It occurred to me that the original premise of Star Trek was partly inspired by the Horatio Hornblower books. I've never read them, but I wonder if Orci and Kurtzman ever did.

I have a sense they have not read them, they seem to be more interested in reading the novelizations of Star Trek that have come out over the years. It seems to me they need to broaden their influences. Why stay stuck in the Star Trek world. I can see inspiration striking from the classics outside. It worked for Roddenberry and Nic Meyer. Those Hornblower stories sound like terrific adventure stories. I imagine one of them could be inspiring, and could apply to the kind of current social/political world and events we live in now. Stuff like oppression of peoples, or the ecology, or some kind of issue that involves the Prime Directive.

It's too bad that Orci and Kurtzman don't read the HTF. At least I am guessing they don't. I think we have a pretty large, not huge, group of members here that are Star Trek fans. I think we can discuss this in a more mature and civilized way then at Trekmovie where I know Orci and Kurtzman lurk and comment. It would be cool if they had some exposure here! Of course there are a lot of sites that have similar discussions we have about our favorite films/TV shows that they cannot possibly have the time to read.
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post #14 of 41
7/9/09 at 12:21pm
I say go with the Orion Syndicate as the primary antagonists.
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post #15 of 41
7/17/09 at 7:22am
A clean slate has been set up.  Use it.  Do something new and original.
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post #16 of 41
7/17/09 at 8:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Sytsma View Post

A clean slate has been set up.  Use it.  Do something new and original.
 

Given the movie's success and the talent involved, I think you're going to see just that.
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post #17 of 41
7/17/09 at 9:06am
Travis- I am not convinced yet. The new film was good and I did enjoy it. JJ Abrams did a great job. But there were a few things that I had issues with and I understand why they were done. So I can accept them.

But I fear a Quantum of Solace. Casino Royale was greeted with much praise. But the next rebooted Bond, QoS was less so. 

The writers have a tough job. They have to appeal to a mainstream audience. I think the writers and producers of TOS in 1966 were also trying to do the exact same thing, appeal to a mass audience. No need to be slavish to it, and they were pretty good about that in Star Trek 2009. So it will be interesting to see how they follow it up.

If all they are thinking about is revisiting old characters and incidents from past Trek, like Khan, then it could be a disaster! I'm thinking of that recent CSI episode where a new producer re-booted a Star Trek like series and the fan reaction at a Sci-Fi convention was negative. And Ronald D. Moore had a cameo and he's in the crowd shouting, "You Suck! 
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post #18 of 41
7/17/09 at 9:20am

The main thing I want for a sequel is a tighter script. I was amazed when I read the screenwriters were answering questions about plot holes in the first movie by claiming that God/Fate/Destiny/whatever willed it that way. That approach might work for Star Wars but it's not appropriate for Star Trek, IMO.

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post #19 of 41
7/17/09 at 9:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au View Post

Travis- I am not convinced yet. The new film was good and I did enjoy it. JJ Abrams did a great job. But there were a few things that I had issues with and I understand why they were done. So I can accept them.

But I fear a Quantum of Solace. Casino Royale was greeted with much praise. But the next rebooted Bond, QoS was less so.

 

I can understand your concerns but, like I said before, I've got faith in all involved- even Kurtzman and Orci (while they were never brilliant Oscar winning scripts, I think the Transformer movies were dumbed down to the mess that you see today by Michael Bay more than the writers).

I think the big differnece between this and the new Bond movies is that Abrams and company won't have the same constraints and edicts that the Bond producers put on the writers and directors of their movies.

And that CSI episode was hilarious.
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post #20 of 41
7/17/09 at 9:59am
Andy, I was thinking the exact thing regarding the writer's off the cuff kinds of comments and answers at Trekmovie to fan questions about the movie. Of course they were deflecting some questions with jokey answers to be funny.

Travis- You make an excellent point, there are no Broccoli's here or Eon overseeing the production. In this case, Gene Roddenberry is gone. So they only have their own sense to beholden to Star Trek and the underlying concept and ideals.
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post #21 of 41
7/18/09 at 6:34am
I agree with Andy.  A tighter script is needed.  Hoping that Damon Lindeloff's involvement will make sure that happens.
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post #22 of 41
7/25/09 at 10:28am
Thread Starter 
Star Trek's Third Movie Being Plotted Out Already?

I sure hope not. I want them to be single episodes not one movie directly connected to the next. If one movie ends up bad it can ruin the run of movies.
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post #23 of 41
7/25/09 at 11:04am
^ I wouldn't believe any info coming out about the second movie at this point in time, let alone a third one.
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post #24 of 41
7/25/09 at 11:12am


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Sytsma View Post

I agree with Andy.  A tighter script is needed.  Hoping that Damon Lindeloff's involvement will make sure that happens.

Well, though uncredited, Lindeloff had a large hand in writing the first one so....
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post #25 of 41
7/25/09 at 11:32am
Thread Starter 
Lindeloff is listed as producer on the ST XI. I don't see what difference thats going to make on this one since he was producer on the last one as well.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0511541/
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post #26 of 41
7/25/09 at 8:48pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Sytsma View Post

A clean slate has been set up.  Use it.  Do something new and original.

Amen!!

I'm sorry but, even being as big a Trek fan as I am, I do not want to see a character we have already seen like Khan.  I don't care if they tell the story from a different angle or change it up, Khan has been done, leave it be.  What is the point of creating an alternate universe if you are just going to retread the same old stories.  That's what sucked about Voyager.  Speaking of VOY, they better not even think about mentioning the Borg in these new movies, I'm sick of the Borg.

The point of creating this alternate timeline was to free the writers from what Trek has done in the past.  I'll be disappointed if they then use those past stories as basis for the new movies.  There is so much you could do in this new universe now, don't waste it on old ideas.  Like others have said, give us something new and original.
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post #27 of 41
7/27/09 at 4:48am
Having recently watched Space Seed on Blu-Ray, I would also prefer not to see Khan in a new movie. Montalbon was so good in the role, projecting a regal presence about him, that I wouldn't even want to see anyone else try to duplicate it. Count Space Seed (and Khan) as something that should not be remade.
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post #28 of 41
8/2/09 at 6:59pm
I agree about doing something new but I just can't help but think of how great a full 2-hour The Doomsday Machine movie would be.  Redo the plot from the Enterprise being isolated and jammed into one where the machine is destroying planets and Starfleet knows it is coming.  Showing the first planets being destroyed by an unknown force and then later mass evacuations of planets in its path.  Don't make it head for Earth but simply some path through Starfleet territory.  Destroy it in a completely new way but keep the best parts of the episode like "Not with my ship you don't!" after rescuing a commodore from a truly wrecked ship that doesn't get used in the movie.  Also the two styles between Kirk and Spock about destroying it at all costs to save more lives and logic that says they should have a reasonable chance of success before jumping in head first.  They could also give Chekov and Scotty a significant role on trying to develop technology or technique to destroy it.  On the big screen the Doomsday Machine itself could be made damn scary and we no longer have to be concerend with the evil villian's stupid motivations.
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post #29 of 41
8/4/09 at 4:26pm
Thread Starter 
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post #30 of 41
8/4/09 at 4:33pm
I could see a Doomsday Machine type story morph into including a subplot addressing the ecological issue, global warming etc. The implications of technology damaging our fragile world. ( I know, Star Trek 4 addressed it)
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