Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Entertainment › Movies (Theatrical) › BATMAN: 20 Years ago today
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

BATMAN: 20 Years ago today - Page 2

post #31 of 54
6/24/09 at 8:28pm

Re: BATMAN: 20 Years ago today

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Hewell
One of the things I found ludicrous about the film was how the Joker was able to shoot the Bat Plane out of the sky with a handgun. It took me out of the picture the first time I saw it and it still does.

I'm pretty sure it was the really long barrel that did the trick.

I was 9 when I first saw Batman, the first PG-13 film I watched all by myself. I don't remember the date, but it must have been some time after the big release because I was the only one in the (first-run) theater. The ushers kept peeking inside to make sure someone was in there - I had a hoot knowing they were projecting the movie just for me.

I enjoyed the film quite a bit, and continued to for many years afterward. I much prefer Nolan's vision now, though.
Reply
post #32 of 54
6/24/09 at 8:44pm

Re: BATMAN: 20 Years ago today

The '89 Batman had a huge impact on comic films, and was an amazing event movie. Sweep away the nostalgia, though, and it's a deeply flawed movie that does not age well, for the reasons noted above.

And I must agree with the opinion that Ledger's Joker was far superior to Nicholson's. Scarier, no camp, and a very worthy opponent of Batman. Nicholson was playing Nicholson, and the shooting script simply wasn't very strong.

I acknowledge what the '89 film did for the genre, but its clunkiness and flatness - as well as Burton's obvious complete lack of understanding of the title character - are glaring, fatal flaws for the movie.
Reply
post #33 of 54
6/25/09 at 5:22am

Re: BATMAN: 20 Years ago today

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Hewell
One of the things I found ludicrous about the film was how the Joker was able to shoot the Bat Plane out of the sky with a handgun. It took me out of the picture the first time I saw it and it still does.

You just reminded me of a very funny moment when I attended the Thursday night premiere of Batman. Just after the Joker shoots at the plane and it crashes, my friend turned to me and said "Hey! The new batplane is a piece of crap!"
Reply
post #34 of 54
6/25/09 at 6:45am

Re: BATMAN: 20 Years ago today

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-P
That film still has the coolest looking Batmobile and the best Joker. Such a great comic book film.

I also agree on the Batmobile assessment......I absolutely love the design...it just screams badass!!!!! I actually have a 1:18 Hot Wheels Diecast replica on display on my TV cabinet. Love that car! Not so much on the Joker assessment.....but then, Jack is Jack.....it's still a great performance though.

I remember 1989 well.....people were scooping up all the Batman and Detective comics from the shelves and the back issue bins. It was a Batman frenzy that year. A lot of people with old backissues were probably making a mint then.

Quote:
One of the things I found ludicrous about the film was how the Joker was able to shoot the Bat Plane out of the sky with a handgun. It took me out of the picture the first time I saw it and it still does.

Yeah....that had the same effect on me too. A state-of-the-art combat plane taken out by a simple handgun (albeit a long joker-gun)? Had me scratching my head going WTF when I first saw it. I still wince when I watch that scene.

Absolute coolest scene for me is Batman's first closeup appearance in the film:

"What are you?"......."I'm Batman."....cue percussive score.....throws criminal back on roof, turns and jumps down into the darkness....

Damn....gives me chills everytime.
Reply
post #35 of 54
6/25/09 at 7:44am

Re: BATMAN: 20 Years ago today

In addition to the absurdity of the Joker shooting down the Batwing with a revolver, we later see the revolver has a telescoping barrel. The Joker must have been a master engineer to get that to work.

I agree that the '89 Batmobile looks the best, but it looks like a show car. With such a long body and no ground clearance, it would be pretty impractical when it comes to navigating city streets and eluding pursuers. In fact, we see it get trapped by a construction vehicle, forcing Batman to temporarily abandon it.

In any case, I think we can all agree that Joel Schumacher's monstrosity is the absolute worst:

Reply
post #36 of 54
6/25/09 at 8:06am

Re: BATMAN: 20 Years ago today

Ugh, that Batmobile is an affront to humanity.....just like everything else Schumacher did to the Batman franchise.
Reply
post #37 of 54
6/25/09 at 8:45am

Re: BATMAN: 20 Years ago today

to me the best thing the movie gave us was the inspiration for the cartoon that came after it in the 90's
Reply
post #38 of 54
6/25/09 at 8:58pm
Thread Starter 

Re: BATMAN: 20 Years ago today

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Osborne

In any case, I think we can all agree that Joel Schumacher's monstrosity is the absolute worst:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent M
Ugh, that Batmobile is an affront to humanity.....just like everything else Schumacher did to the Batman franchise.

I'm really in the minority then, because I love that Batmobile. At the same time, I don't lump "Forever" in with "Batman & Robin".

Hot Wheels has been releasing a new line of Batmobiles, and the 1989 Batmobile and Batwing (I'm in the minority again, because I love the 89 Batwing) were next up, as the 66, 66 Batcycle, comic book, animated series and Tumbler have all been released. Haven't seen the 89 ones yet though.
Reply
post #39 of 54
6/25/09 at 9:38pm

Re: BATMAN: 20 Years ago today

The Batman/Batman Returns is still my favorite design followed by the Tumbler from the new films. I dig the old one from the TV show as well. The ones in Batman Forever and Batman & Robin look ridiculous IMHO, but everybody has different tastes.
Reply
post #40 of 54
6/25/09 at 10:28pm

Re: BATMAN: 20 Years ago today

The DVD reveals that it was designed from a dildo or something from an S & M magazine Schumacher showed the designers!
Reply
post #41 of 54
6/26/09 at 8:14am

Re: BATMAN: 20 Years ago today

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Hawley
The DVD reveals that it was designed from a dildo or something from an S & M magazine Schumacher showed the designers!


Not surprising, sadly.
Reply
post #42 of 54
6/26/09 at 9:10am

Re: BATMAN: 20 Years ago today

Just what we have been discussing:

Scott Mendelson: 20 Years Later, How Batman Changed the Movie Business
Reply
post #43 of 54
6/26/09 at 10:40am

Re: BATMAN: 20 Years ago today

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Favate

I think that article is a little over the top itself.
Reply
post #44 of 54
7/1/09 at 6:51am
I agree.  The article is fun, but some of the leaps the author takes are a bit outrageous.

And while I'm late to this thread, I still have tons of love for Burton's Batman.  I was ten years old that summer and was so excited to see Indiana Jones, the Ghostbusters, James Bond and, of course, Batman on the big screen. 

In my eyes it was a great summer for movies but it was amazing to have lived through all of the hype and frenzy surrounding Batman.  I remember seeing it twice that summer and I'm amazed at how much of both screenings I can recall.  Hard to believe 20 years have passed since then!

I just watched the film on BD with my fiancee (she'd never seen it) and I was thrilled to hear her say how much she liked Keaton in the role.  For my money, his Batman suit in the first two films are the best the character has ever looked on the big screen.
Reply
post #45 of 54
7/1/09 at 9:39am
Thread Starter 
It is interesting that the most cheaply-made Batsuit is also the most impressive looking, which is the 89 suit. There is something genuinely frightening about it, especially when its wings are open.
Reply
post #46 of 54
7/1/09 at 9:43am
I would love to see a book written on what it took to get this to the big screen.  It wasn't an easy task at the time.  So many things needed to be interpreted for the big screen just right.  This had to try to satisfy hardcore comic fans as well as those who only knew Batman from the TV show.  The article mentioned above was absolutely correct in that this movie was calculated at every angle to be a hit. 

I haven't watched it in a while.  Over the years I find it hard to watch Jack Nicholson in any role without being taken out of the movie.  I liked him as the Joker though because it was kept in the context of what the movie was going for. 
Reply
post #47 of 54
7/1/09 at 10:06am
Interestingly enough, Batman, Spider-Man, and Superman Returns are all legendary for the challenge in getting each respective film (finally) made.
Reply
post #48 of 54
7/5/09 at 2:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane D View Post

to me the best thing the movie gave us was the inspiration for the cartoon that came after it in the 90's

Pretty much, yeah. Although Burton's Batman was flawed, Nolan's Batman is that too. Both took liberties with the character but I still think both versions are equally enjoyable and still good films. But the animated series is the best adaptation of the Batman character, I think. For example, Mark Hamill does a better job at the Joker than both Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger did.
Reply
post #49 of 54
7/5/09 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Borst View Post


 For example, Mark Hamill does a better job at the Joker than both Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger did.

Well, I certainly think Hamill does a fine Joker, but I wouldn't say it's "better" than either of those performances, especially Ledger's.
Reply
post #50 of 54
7/5/09 at 5:26pm
Personally, I love all three Jokers in question.

I don't like to compare strengths and weaknesses in performances - although it's hard not to - but I can appreciate the cases made for each actor's interpretation of the character.  I think all three are different enough and can hold their own.
Reply
post #51 of 54
7/5/09 at 6:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Borst View Post


 Both took liberties with the character but I still think both versions are equally enjoyable and still good films.
 

What exactly does that mean, anyway? You make it sound like it's wrong to interpret something at all. Trouble is, taken literally everything outside of Bob Kane and Bill Finger's original comics is an interpretation and liberties are taken all the time. Now, I don't read comics and don't care to but there's certainly a double-standard when it comes to interpretations, since it seems to be perfectly okay for comic books but frowned upon in movies and TV. How that is supposedly different is obviously something I've never seen explained.
Reply
post #52 of 54
7/5/09 at 7:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattFini View Post

I think all three are different enough and can hold their own.
 

That's my take on it as well. Mark Hamill is my personal favorite but they all did their own thing and made a memorable version of the character. Jack Nicholson was the right Joker for Tim Burton's movie. When I saw Heath Ledger's Joker in trailers and clips, I wondered what the hell he was doing but when I saw the movie, I thought he was easily the best element of the movie and that he had a great interpretation of the character.
Reply
post #53 of 54
7/6/09 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholas Martin View Post



What exactly does that mean, anyway? You make it sound like it's wrong to interpret something at all. Trouble is, taken literally everything outside of Bob Kane and Bill Finger's original comics is an interpretation and liberties are taken all the time. Now, I don't read comics and don't care to but there's certainly a double-standard when it comes to interpretations, since it seems to be perfectly okay for comic books but frowned upon in movies and TV. How that is supposedly different is obviously something I've never seen explained.

Interpretation isn't wrong, but most fans want to see a film true to the characters. You can't just change a character because you feel like it, you have to set up some boundaries for yourself. Otherwise it isn't interesting. Both takes on the character did it, that's my mild complaint. Some comic writers do it too, and they get criticized for it too, but that's just one arc out of an entire run that lasts decades, instead of a film which will endure much longer.
Reply
post #54 of 54
7/6/09 at 1:24pm
Thread Starter 
From what I understand, the three big problems fans had with Burton's film were:

-Joker killed Batman's parents, creating him before Batman could create Joker
-Vicki Vale is let into the Batcave by Alfred

and the worst offender:

-Batman kills a lot of henchmen, when he shouldn't be killing anyone at all.

As a non-reader of the comics, for years I didn't know these different from those and they didn't bother me after learning of them because:

-I liked the idea of the villain unknowingly creating the hero, and the hero accidentally giving the villain a new lease on life.

-Alfred's letting Vicki in was probably related to what he said to Bruce earlier, about not wanting to grieve over losing his friends anymore, or his friends' son. Maybe he wanted Bruce to see there was more to life than Batman, and Vicki was a key to it.

-Batman's killing henchmen who were trying to kill him - to me this guy, especially after nearly being killed in a plane crash, was seriously pissed off and prior to that hell-bent on revenge. The rest (such as the men in Axis Chemicals who were lost when the Batmobile blew it up) were collateral damage as far as he was concerned. It may have been the ultimate violation in the comic fans' eyes, but as a non-fan I understood and accepted it for what it was. 

Another reason I wasn't bothered by it is because this isn't just a comic character anymore. It's a live-action TV, cartoon, live-action movie, animated movie, all-around media character and sometimes people don't follow every form the character appears in, so there is no standard other than the one that made you a fan in the first place. Of course, there's obviously this idea that only the comics are the true standard that everything else must live up to. That's why there was a big issue of Heath Ledger's Joker when it came to his skin - it wasn't "perma-white" and that didn't sit well with some people. Of course that kind of thing sounds totally ridiculous to get worked up over, but everyone's got their preferences.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Movies (Theatrical)
Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Entertainment › Movies (Theatrical) › BATMAN: 20 Years ago today