Blu-ray and Apple - Page 6

Writing is on the wall...
http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/27/editorial-apples-officially-over-the-optical-drive-for-better/

And they send that not-so-silent message sent to Application Vendors: either go through the App Store, or you won't find a home on Mac.   Thank you for your 30%

 

Mac users are still welcome to buy software outside the App Store, be it Amazon, BestBuy, or indie-dev's website. As must still be done for Office, Adobe CS5, SuperDuper!, and other crucial software.

 

The future might be, might hoped to be, App Store. But for the present, I think handwringing is pre-mature.

I think the difference is perspective.  

 

I admit, I live in Kansas.

I have a HUGE number of people who cannot get an internet connection faster then 384k.

The concept of telling them to download something like CS5 is laughable.  More then that, they have a hard cap in their areas (for example, I can think of a county seat where you can get 512k, but you are capped at 2Gb download monthly for $80/mo)  So the concept of telling them to start downloading huge volumes is.. laughable.

 

I'd love to say that's the exception, and of course that's a community of about 8,000 people so tiny by comparison.. but let's just say there is a huge volume of that everywhere.   The ability to go and get discs shipped to them has always been valuable.   Yes, still external USB Optical and it's still cheaper then last year's model.   But I don't think the optical drive is going away anytime soon.

 

No difference in perspective. I'm not saying, "Let the eat Downloads!" I'm saying, there are plenty of other shopping options. And in fact, CS5 isn't available for download through Apple, so that's a non-issue.

 

Lousy internet connection? Buy it from Amazon and have it two-day shipped (Quicken 2011 for me), or NewEgg (Windows 7). On dial-up and can't shop online? Go to your Target or BestBuy or Fry's. There are plenty of shopping options outside the Apple Store and App Store.

 

But these days, without internet, your computing experience is going to be severely limited. The best indie-dev software is online only: if you can't shop online, how do you buy SuperDuper?

 

And my bias is that we need vastly better internet access nation-wide. Because box stores are closing up, retail shopping options for software is decreasing -- Apple's action wouldn't bother anyone if BestBuy and CircuitCity and CompUSA and ComputerCity were in business with their vast software sections. If anything, Apple has been the unexpected Kansas-ian savior, with its Apple retail stores originally predicted to fail, and selling software far longer than most other computer stores. :)

Dave-

Your options are valid... to a point.  The issue that Sam pointed out is that the new models are not shipping with an optical drive.  So, feel free to order from Amazon or Newegg, get your discs and.. oh wait, you don't have a drive.

So, you're adding $79 to get a USB Optical drive (roughly)  

That's what I'm saying, there is now a built in penalty for those who need optical access.

 

You're right about "missing internet"

I get it.  Unfortunately for about 1/2 of the square mileage of the US, there is no service or service of 512k or less.   High bandwidth tends to be concentrated around metros.   Everywhere else?  Crickets.  Ten miles outside of Kansas City, to the north, you can't even get DSL.. it's dialup or 3G services only.. and there, you're capped as to how much you can download.

I'm sympathetic to those who have hard caps, that sucks.

But you have to remember that there is still going to be a large segment of apps that will NEVER get access to the App store because they need things like Admin privledges. There's some interesting new techniques in Lion and iOS5 (sandboxing etc) but it's going to be a hard sell to get a lot of these apps fully functional going down that route, perhaps never.

The GOOD NEWS is that stupid apps that require admin access (HELLO ADOBE!) that shouldnt ever have it, won't get it via the MAS route.

Yeah, actually, this started to make me think of Mac Data recovery software we use.. which requires to boot on CD.. 

 

I'm really not as opposed to this as it seems.  It's been a standard practice in NetTops for a while, and netbooks, etc.  The problem I run into is that if you're someone who's investing $600, then you're not really in the world of a nettop anymore.  I can grab an internal laptop DVD for less then $20.   An internal laptop Bluray for less then $70.   So, for a company that is raking in the cash, whether "less and less" people use it, there are still quite a few who do.  I don't bother with it not being in an Air.. that's the point.. but for a "fully functional desktop" .. quite a few people still want to burn CDs, make a movie to send to their friends and family (and not just YouTube or Facebook) and so on.. you'd think it'd be worth throwing it in.

 

 

Ok. I see your point. It would be difficult to get along without an optical drive and "no" internet access. I don't see this Apple sticking it to vendors. There is no "App Store or no store" problem, since there are plenty of other distribution methods (including Adobe's app store). The practical problem is that Apple's notional customer, their target person they design their products for, is not a rural Kansan on dial-up. You can see the influence of implicitly assuming everyone lives in San Francisco or NYC.

 

I wouldn't call it a "built in penalty for those who need optical access". That suggests a specific negatism to me that I don't agree with. This is one more feature limitation / cost adder they've claimed for the sake of design ("Apple Tax"...mea culpa). People have long complained about the limited USB ports on Apple computers; the iMac only has four. I need six or seven. I wouldn't call this a ''built in penalty for those who need three or more USB ports'. It's a "feature" of Apple's design. Need more USB inputs, buy a hub. Need a disc drive on that mini, buy an external drive. Find the compromises Apple has put on their designs excessive, buy a Windows system.

 

That last part is something I'm routinely re-evaluating. Possibly no DVD drive in the next imac my wife gets? We need disc access; that would be a nuisance. Adobe seemingly prioritizing Windows or OS X? What does that mean for her professionally? What if the next OS is 10x larger, 40 GB, and download only? I don't have FIOS, so it would take days. Does this cumulatively push me away from the Mac?

 

(We're having ~20 years of photo negatives scanned in, and they're delivered on DVD. At 4-10 GB per set, this is downloadable, but it would be a big job. I consider a DVD drive necessary right now.)

 

Apple is making design decisions that seem unfavorable to those of us that like optical drives. It will be interesting, at least, to see how they pursue this across the whole product line in the next year or two.

I don't think the future is here yet... as silly as that sounds. My point being that there's still a large portion of people out there that still don't use social networks to share media, or haven't converted their CDs to files yet, or still have a CD player in their car that doesn't read data CDs. (I'm skipping the other more computer specific issues as they've been mentioned a million times already). What happens when these people finally do want to move to a new computer, but have no way of getting their music onto their computer? Or can't share their latest family christmas movie with grandma in Po-dunk Boonies, USA who can't afford to be there in person?

I'm all for moving towards the future, that's why I support FCPX, but I also recognize that it's not ready for prime-time, and neither is no optical discs (let alone Blu-ray).

They buy a $9 CD drive and get their music onto their computer.

http://www.amazon.com/External-CD-ROM-CDROM-Drive-ASUS/dp/B001RKS7AC/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1311797413&sr=1-1

 

Or they buy a Windows PC -- for which I bought an external floppy disk just two years ago because we still use 3.5" disks on some equipment at work.

 

 

If the future isn't yet in your part of the country, for the price of a couple lattes at Starbucks, your problem is solved.

Closest Starbucks to my parent's house is 2 hours, 15 minutes.   I don't see them making that trek anytime soon.

 

:)

 

I do get your point, though I'm not really just saying "Kansas land!"   Engadget had a story yesterday on how the US ranks in the bottom 10% in Internet Broadband coverage.  In square miles, more of the US gets 512k or Less as a top speed then gets more.   I have no problem where I'm at, I just upgraded to 100Mb at the house, with an option for Gigabit by the end of the year.  So I'm set.   But that's not most people. 

 

More then that, even in places where it is, caps are coming hardcore.   Near us, Comcast has already put down caps that throttle data and access.   So, making everything download only is going to be a kick for those people.   There are other people who just like optical media.   We like to hold it in our little hands.  :) 

 

Then again, I'm also someone who tends to burn out CDs/DVDs often.. like on a daily basis.   So *shrug* I can't imaging living without one.

 

 

I think convincing people to buy additional hardware will make many people ask why they're paying so much for something that isn't complete. Plus, as the article above mentions, there's a loss of form factor, and there are possible compatibility problems.

I know it's cheap to just buy a peripheral, but if you're someone who is just now joining the 21st century - and there are plenty of them out there - then buying multiple devices to do common procedures, is a little ridiculous for the casual person.

The future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/William_Gibson

I hate to say it but I don't think Jobs and Apple care what happens in rural America. Wasn't it just a couple of decades ago where the US demographic shifted so that more people lived in urban cities than out in the rural areas? That's Apple's market. As much as I keep hoping that the "average American" can't get fast internet access, and that will force Apple to keep providing at least optical disc support if not flat out BD support, I'm starting to realize that it's just a pipe dream. Apple's target demographic are urbanites and most of them have reasonably fast internet access. I do think this idea of Apple becoming a mobile platform company is going to become a reality faster than those of us who support their power products (Mac Pro, professional software) are willing to admit. I had hoped that wasn't the case, but everything they've done in the last 2-3 years (basically since the introduction of the iPhone) has supported exactly that theory.

Is it surprising that the only product that hasn't been updated recently is the Mac Pro? I'm starting to think it isn't a coincidence. I'd love to be wrong.

 

And if so, they'll buy a Windows PC. That's the gamble Apple is making with these atypical design choices.

 

They should. The white chocolate mocha is very good! 
 

 

 

Broadband access is pretty bad nationally, I agree. I've got a decent 15+ Mbps down, but a pathetic 1 Mbps up. There's no real competition, so Roadrunner isn't rolling out DOCSIS 3.0 here. And we can't get FIOS because the regional phone co prevents Verizon from coming in with wired service.

 

Clearly Apple is making a play for the "future". And we shouldn't be surprised they're willing to cut possible customers out: their cheapest computer is $599, and the entry price for a full system is $1199. They don't sell to "cheap" people; an extra $79 for an Apple-branded DVD drive is small beans for the typical Apple customer.

 

And that's what's amazing to me about Apple. I may not like the jettisoning of the optical drive -- I use it enough to think I need at least one in the house -- but I'm fascinated by its pursuit of its corporate vision, and willingness to risk customers to that. They've cut out the no-budget crowd. They're getting rid of the no-bandwidth crowd. And now, the "optical disc" groupies are being tossed. I don't know how I feel about it as a computer user, but it's riveting to watch!

 

Edited by DaveF - 7/28/11 at 4:48am

I won't fully freak out that Apple is abandoning optical disc until it disappears from both the iMac and Mac Pro.

I can fully understand why they would disappear from their laptops. The ODD is one of the largest space hogs and Apple clearly wants to win the race for "thinner/faster/lighter" while preserving power. I wouldn't be surprised if eventually, when SSD/flash memory prices go down, for the Airs to one day replace the Macbook Pro line. Having lugged my 5.5lbs MBP to and from work every day (I walk) I can definitely get behind making a 2.6lbs laptop lighter while becoming even more powerful by omitting the ODD.

The ODD omission from the Mini makes sense too, because storage has always been a problem with the Mini, and they'd rather use the space normally reserved for the ODD for other things.

If the next rev of the iMac and Mac Pro lack an ODD, then we will really know that they've abandoned optical media.

This is not the original thread so it's tough for me to tell when I actually -first- started pining for blu on a Mac, but I can tell you the date I finally got one for mine.

Today.

After last week's inclusion of Toast Titanium 11 into the MacUpdate bundle, I started looking for the Blu deck I'd get to go along with it. Today I saw what Marco recommended and finally jumped on the bandwagon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003CJTQPG

I needed an external drive to complement my Air so this covers both needs nicely.

I bought my first 10pack of 6x disks to go with it:
http://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-97238-Blu-ray-Recordable-10-Disc/dp/B003EE08S8/ref=pd_luc_sim_01_04_t_lh

Single layer is fine for me, but this drive will burn the double layers, which is nice, at 4x.

Here's Marco's writeup:
http://www.marco.org/2011/09/07/the-new-setup

And there is still time on the MacUpdate promo (6 and a half days as of this posting).
https://www.mupromo.com/

There's not much I wanted in the MU besides Toast, but they are nice to have as a bonus to getting Toast for half off. If you want the Blu capabilities of Toast you need to add $10 for that feature and it's worth it, even if you don't need it right now. If you 'Like' them on FB they will toss in a collection of 2000 fonts too, I haven't downloaded that yet so no verdict on usefulness, but if it's free it's for me...

A third party glimmer of hope?
http://www.macnn.com/articles/11/11/11/limbo.coming.to.mac.by.end.of.year/
Hopefully this will be a good solution, and if it is, maybe it will spur Apple to provide their own, likely superior, solution.

Hey, it's 11/11/11...I can dream!

I don't see this spurring Apple to produce a superior time-bending platformer. 

I've finally gotten around to purchasing a blu-ray burner for my mac pro...is Toast 11 the only burning software option that's compatible?
I've read mixed reviews so I'd like to go with another option but can't seem to find any.

Pretty much yeah

Maybe a glimmer of hope (third party workaround): http://www.electronista.com/articles/12/02/13/mac.interface.to.be.overhauled/

I haven't tried the beta versions yet, but I use the latest stable release of VLC player on Mac and PC and consider it a good, free player.

Read the fine print. Unprotected Blurays only.