PHE Press Release: Braveheart * Gladiator * Forrest Gump (Sapphire Series Blu-ray) - Page 5

Do you not understand what generalize even means? A generalization by its very nature does not include every specific person. Do you really think most people under age 40 would rather see Citizen Kane than Transformers? Notice I said most, not every single person under 40. When he made the comments about people under 40, he didn't include your awesome film-appreciating self.

Seriously, he makes a generalization and you are "highly insulted"?

O rly?

I take it this "Sapphire Series" will eventually include Saving Private Ryan? Or wasn't that a DreamWorks/Universal collaboration?

 Reviews for Gladiator and Braveheart are up at DVDBeaver. They look like fantastic releases. I'm so glad they used seamless branching on Gladiator for the theatrical and extended versions. I can't wait to obtain my copies. Great movies and it looks like they were given the proper treatment. Thank you Paramount!!

I disagree.  Braveheart looks excellent, and Paramount/Fox are deserving of praise for the outstanding picture quality.  Gladiator, however, doesn't look so good.  Lots of EE, not all that detailed.  I'm not happy for the people wanting Gladiator, but since Braveheart is the one I'm getting, I'm very happy that it looks so great.

Bummer about GLADIATOR having EE. BRAVEHEART of course looks to be great. I noticed the GLADIATOR screengrabs were JPEG and the BRAVEHEART were PNG. I'll be purchasing both of course but yeah I am let down about GLADIATOR. Perhaps there'll be a silent remaster next year seeing as it's the films 10th Anniversary? I'll still be keeping the Signature Selection and Extended Edition DVD releases.
Here's to hoping Forrest Gump will fare better compared to its DVD counterpart.

 I guess I'm in the minority but I look at a release as an entire product, not just judging a release by screencaps. To me, there's the visual, yes but there is also audio and bonus features package. And to me as a complete product, this looks to deliver. Gladiator's DTS track on DVD was the goods so I know a lossless track on Blu is going to blow me away and Gary reiterated that in his review. Disc 2's bonus features look incredible and mirror previous releases which is saying something since some studios *cough* Fox *cough* stupidly decide to drop bonus features off their catalog releases. Yes, visually, if there is EE, that is a mark against it but I'll make that judgment call once I see it in motion. Personally, I think screencaps are overrated. Everybody got their panties in a wad when the The Dark Knight's screencaps were posted and the thing looked gorgeous when I saw it on screen. 
Edited by Southpaw - 8/21/09 at 10:25am

The way I look at it, movies are fundamentally motion pictures, and if the picture isn't done right, isn't a faithful rendering of what was filmed, then no amount of extras or packaging makes up for it.  Give me a barebones Blu Ray with superb picture quality over a multi disc, features-to-the-gills DVD with mediocre picture quality any day.

Well, now I disagree. Before everyone gets all depressed about this rather gloomy review, take a look at what DVD Beaver owner Gary Tooze says (emphasis mine):


I'm of the camp that it's impossible to gauge a title's PQ from a few screen grabs. That said, to me the caps at DVD Beaver look great. I see clearly increased detail over the SD grabs. As for "lots of EE" - can't see it. There's a couple of places where there might be some haloing, but it's so minor that it would surely be unnoticeable while actually watching the movie. 

In his review of Braveheart, Tooze has this to say:


I think he's hit the nail on the head here. Gladiator was widely praised when released as a reference transfer. But (at least to my eyes), Braveheart never looked that good on SD. Therefore, the difference between the SD and HD caps is more pronounced for it than the Gladiator caps. Braveheart simply had more room for improvement.

Anyway, that's just my opinion, Everyone should judge for themselves. I'm particularly glad to see that it appears that all the supplements from both the original and extended Gladiator releases are being carried over to BD. Both of these titles are release-day purchases for me.

I have already pre-ordered both Braveheart & Gladiator. I think these will be the first two BDs I have bought on the day of release. I do hope Gladiator does not have excessive EE. In that screenshot at DVD Beaver, the shot where Oliver Reed is looking at the line of potential gladiator recruits does look rather halo-ish. Frankly, I am baffled as to why a new BD should have it. I understood that EE made DVDs look "better" on SD TVs. Why would a medium that is geared strictly toward HD TVs use EE?

One reason why we still see EE on BD is because older masters are being used - probably the case for Gladiator.

Another reason has to do with bad habits (and/or working on smaller CRT monitors - although less common today) of some technicians.

I'm disappointed about Gladiator based on the images although I will probably pick it up at a discount price down the road.

Online reviewers have been known to be oblivious to flaws in a transfer, even for discs on which there's an overwhelming consensus about the problems, and Tooze's review is an example of that.  Plenty of people are looking at those screen grabs, and they see the problems.  They are not subtle.  You can choose not to see them, but that doesn't mean they aren't there and visible by others.  It's not as if people make this stuff up.  People would MUCH prefer these problems not to be there, and they're VERY happy about the superb job done for Braveheart.  As for the "yeah, well maybe it's there in screencaps, but actually watching the movie is different" idea, here's what someone who's involved with Blu Ray disc production had to say after watching the actual disc:


And in a subsequent post:


Not good.  Not good at all.  And no, complaints like these are not a demand for "perfection", as many like to say, but rather, a demand that studios give us their best effort.  They did it for Braveheart (created an excellent new master), but simply chose not to do it with Gladiator (recycled an old master).

Apparently the extended scenes (which can be watched via branching) look pristine with no haloing/ee whatsoever. The EE is very clearly seen on the beaver grabs.

The original master of Gladiator is not the problem. It looks pretty good. The completely unnecessary tinkering with it for the Blu Ray is the problem. The thick edge enhancement and the noise filtering they applied is the problem. Bye bye film look, hello overprocessed video look.

I just canceled my Amazon preorder of both titles. Amazon has reduced Braveheart by $1.00. Seriously, I do not see a reason to pre-order anything from Amazon anymore unless you can lock in a good price.

Wow, I've been looking at some more screen caps, and parts of the picture DISAPPEAR in certain scenes in Gladiator.  Gone. Erased.  That's just...amazing (and amazing that it's been called "reference A/V").

Both of these are certainly worth the $14.50 Cdn I'm paying for them from Columbia House - especially since i don't own either on DVD.

Can you post a link, or are you referring to the Beaver caps?

david, eric.exe over at the other site has a comparison between the BD and the 2 HD broadcast versions. In the shot in question where there is the titled card, Germania, there is a rider coming into frame with a spear. In the BD version a good sized chunk of the spear is now invisible. And in a shot where they are launching flaming arrows, about 1/2 of them have been erased as well. Probably because due the fast movment they were percieved as "noise"

Clearly if 1 frame out of the 24x60x177= 254,880 in the whole movie is missing part of an arrow we`ll all easily notice it in motion and the entire Blu-ray release is ruined.

and you know that it is only one frame...?

Compare this broadcast HDTV version:

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/2474/glad7c4.png

With the Blu Ray:

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/5788/glad7zbd.png

You'll see objects disappear.

And in this:

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2376/glad3c4.png

vs. this:

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/5070/glad3zbd.png

Note the vanishing spear.  Also note the deteriorated lettering.

And THIS is someone's idea of "reference A/V".  Fascinating.

I think everyone should see for themselves in motion. Rent it if you`re not sure you`ll be happy.

What makes you think it's only "one frame"?  Why wouldn't the arrows be missing during the entire motion sequence?  Or is it your claim that the capture beat 254,880 to 1 odds?

yep. definitely moved to being a rental from a sure buy for me.

The best advice anyone can get on any release that is questioned by some.

Do you honestly think even 1% of anyone would notice it unless specifically looking for it?

If things like flying flaming arrows are winking in and out of existence then yes unless they're blind.

Are you claiming the person who did the captures spent the entire movie looking for disappearing arrows?  It makes MUCH more sense for him to have noticed it, THEN deciding to capture it.

I think the bottom line is that the FX artists probably wanted the arrows to be seen throughout the whole shot. All of them. The fact that they and the spear wink in and out is a mistake.

I think i will tell you in about 2 weeks when I see it for myself. :)