*** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread - Page 4

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

I agree.

As for me not being part of the demographic that they had in mind, I can honestly say that i'm the kind of person who would really give two shits one way or the other if I were.

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

Did someone seriously compare Mater from Cars (voiced by Larry the Cable Guy and written by Pixar) with the twins from TF2, as conceived by Michael Bay? To specify some sort of equivalence?

Wow.

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

Thus further demonstrating that you're not part of the demographic.

Re: 2009 at the Box Office

(Comes in from Posting retirement to defend the film)


Hi all. I have to say I think this film was great. After all the reading and reviews I went in to the theater with my head down, thinking.." can it really be that bad?????"

And it wasnt. It was quite the opposite.


Basically it just took the first movie and gave it an energy drink and let it go wild. not much more to say.

Sure its stupid.. and loud.. and ridiculous....

But so was the material its based on. I would think that kind of spirit of being true to its source would be rewarded.

If I went in to the theater and Optimus and the fallen were in a coffee shop like in Heat.. I would be pretty dissapointed.

Loved it. Lots.

In my opinion its the movie of the summer..

I understand why some dont like it though....

If you didnt like the first there is no hope you will like this one.

Every single person Ive talked to loved it.

Boys.. girls.. wives.. mothers...

Peace out. See you all in 2011 for # 3 !!

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

Well, just got back from seeing this and I was a little disappointed.

I loved the first one, it brought back memories of playing with the toys and was a lot of fun to watch.

Revenge was just too much. I love action and explosions and loud movies, I love turning my brain of for summer movies but, this one just beats your head over and over with mindless action a little too much. What story was there was okay, about as good as the story in the first movie but, it was the stuff in between that got boring. 30 - 45 minutes could have been cut and we would have still gotten the point. When we finally get to the big climatic final battle, and 15 minutes into it, I was like "I get it already, robots and humans fighting with explosions and Sam running again, just end it and conclude the story please." I know what to expect in a Bay movie but, he indulged himself a little too much this time out. The editing was just tiresome as well; few minutes of dialogue followed by 10 minutes of action, then 2 minutes of dialogue followed by 15 minutes of action, repeat for the remainder of the film. It got old and ruined the battle at the end IMO. Terminator 4 was edited better IMO and that is not a compliment. The twins didn't bother me except that they were just horrible characters, almost Jar Jar level, and the movie didn't need them.

The other thing that really bugged me was the female decepticon robot. Now, it has been over 20 years since I played with the toys and saw the cartoon but I don't remember human transformers. I thought transformers could only imitate technology, not human forms. This was even stated in the first movie. I thought it was a really weak plot device and a cop out as well. Low point of the film for me and it never recovered much.

Not as bad as T4 but, unlike the first movie, I have no intentions of seeing this again in theaters (saw the first one 3 times). I'll probably still buy the BD because I'm a sucker and have to have all the movies in a series. Plus, it will play better at home when I can pause it to take a break or skip some of the pointless action. Of course it will sound amazing at home, will be a great sub workout movie.

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

Again, I wouldn't care if I were, just how I am.

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

That's what I expected too. And about 30 minutes of this movie IS that. Unfortunately, there is another 2 hours of utter dreck attached to those 30 minutes.

I really like the first one, have seen it many times at home (looks splendid in HD DVD ), but seriously, "Revenge of the Fallen" is crap. Not because of the story, acting or anything else specifically - it is simply a movie that is mind-bogglingly incompetently made. It has scenes that don't even fit together, and make no sense whatsoever. The biggest star of the movie is arguably Optimus Prime, and he's out of commission for about 45 minutes or so in the middle of it. The first half of the movie has almost nothing to do with the second half. There's a TEN MINUTE scene with nothing but exposition where Sam & co talks to a geriatric Decepticon. There are way too many useless transformers with far too little screentime for each. And I won't even go into the stupidity of "the twins".

But worst of all, this movie committed the biggest sin an action-movie can commit - it is really, really dull. It went on and on and on with long stretches between real action and then scenes that were virtual carbon copies of the first movie, only less imaginative.

If you think "well, I just want explosions, fighting robots and humor" I suggest waiting for the home video release, because then you won't have to suffer through the rest of this mess. Or better yet, watch the first one again. The story is virtually identical anyway, and it's a better movie.

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

I'm surprised by all the hate for Transformers 2. With the exception of some of the out of place comedy, which indeed was over the top, I LOVED it. (the theater I was in did laugh at every single joke, I suppose on a second watching it really won't be that funny)

It seems like people were expecting LOTR, or for these movies to get into some of the deep allegorical and typological aspects of transformers....but come on, this is Bay we're talking about...LOL!

The first transformers is my favorite movie since LOTR, and I loved ROTF just as much as the first one. (though not more) The non transformers fanboy buddy of mine who went with me, really enjoyed it, his only 2 complaints were that it was about 15-20 minutes too long, and that the first half of the movie had too much "juvenile humor" for a movie that had such a serious and dark tone to the last 30 minutes. I guess I agree with that once I think about it. However I think they got SO much right with this movie, from a transformers G1 fan's perspective (though I admit I haven't followed transformers since the 80's) that I guess I just over looked what bad there was in the movie. I mean I wanted to see transformers, with more of their backstory and mythos, and I feel like I got it. Not just Megatron and Starscream, but SoundWave, Ravage, transformers bleeding energon, and heck....ENERGON being what the war was really about in the movie. I really felt like I was seeing transformers, not not "giant F-ing robots".....

The twins were "cute" but I'm sure on a second viewing, I'll find them annoying so opinions might change. I also didn't get any racist elements out of but thought they were red necks as well, after all they had "buck teeth"...and that tends to be something we think of when we think of red necks. Again, yes, kind of stupid I guess now that I think about it, and it did have too much comedy (my friend said that yes, it was a really good movie, but it felt like 2 different movies)....but none the less, all the "trasnformery" stuff out shined all the rest. And yes, Optimus Prime was awesome in the movie. I'm sure I could pick it apart if I tried, but I really, really thought it was a great movie. Is it what I originally wanted as a transformer movie? Well, I suppose I guess not, but if I want an allegory for energy consumption, civil war, power, and a 'savior' I'll have to wait for DUNE, because we'll never get this out a transformer movie. This is as close as we'll ever get at least in my life time, and I can live with that. Again, maybe I just "fanboyed" out at seeing so much of the robots and even characterization, especially of Prime, that I over looked the negatives. As for the few plot holes, and the Fallen not being used much, I just assumed that was a build up to a 3rd movie with Unicron (where it would be revealed the fallen was basically taking a "Galvatron" like role of being a slave to unicron, and so was only a puppet himself, but maybe that's just my imagination running wild).......

In the end I loved the movie. And can't wait for it to come out on DVD. If I had the money to see it a second time in the theater I would.....but I'll save my $$$ to own it.

I do wish more people had enjoyed it more and am disappointed so many were disappointed, but it did have a lot of positives, but maybe only for us transformers geeks, who knows?!

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

Total strawman arguments. Nobody went in expecting a deep drama. We went in expecting a kick-ass action movie that wasn't dumb, dull and incompetent, but that's exactly what this movie was.

Even you are constantly making excuses for the movie in your review. Why? You don't HAVE to.

There are plenty of talented filmmakers out there, directors and screenwriters, who could have EASILY put together a fun, action-packed Transformers movie that had heart and was entertaining. Hell, Bay & Kurtzman/Orci got pretty close with the first movie. Instead, we get this crap. The waste of potential is the thing that makes me the most disappointed.

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

MickeS, your speaking as if your hated aspects of the film are hard facts when the mere fact that some enjoyed the movie proves otherwise.

Not everyone saw a "crap" movie made by a "talentless" group of filmmakers.

That's what gets me about the haters, they seem to forget that just because they think it's a bad film doesn't make it so. You saw it and thought it sucked and others saw it and thought it was great...it's all subjective.

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

I have no idea why you think I am presenting facts. It's my opinion. I am not going to put "IMO" after every opinion, I thought that goes without saying.

What is a fact is that Charles S set up a strawman argument - nobody went in expecting a deep drama. That's not what the criticism is about. What is also a fact is that Charles S is constantly bringing up things he dislikes about the movie, but excuses them because it's a Transformer movie.

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

Okay, fair enough.

But i've read some bad reviews, and arguments, where it seems as if the composer is trying to get those who like Bay and his films to somehow "see the light" and realize that they're absolutely right.

Argumanets about whether a film is good or bad is an unwinnable situation, neither party will change their minds on it.

It was a wise one who said "Strange game, the only winning move is not to play."

If you can guess who said it i'll mail you a cookie.

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

I saw it on Friday and was pretty disappointed with it.

I really enjoyed the first Transformers two years ago with reservations. It seemed like the filmmakers were hesitant to put the big robots center stage because they worried whether or not audiences would take them seriously as characters.

When it worked, and worked well, I figured the filmmakers would dispense with some of the human nonsense and give us more of what worked the first time around.

Instead they did the opposite. Don't get my wrong, I liked the opening action sequence and dug the ending (even though it felt a but lazy), but Michael Bay and company seemed to find a way to give us even LESS of the titular characters. What the hell?

Now I wouldn't mind if the actual story was interesting (but it wasn't). It felt like the National Treasure films but with pretty terrible humor.

That said, I didn't find the movie to be a chore to sit through - just messy and unfocused. The Fallen was a terrible villain with almost zero screen presence and Megatron was practically persona non grata throughout (come to think of it, so was Prime).

I would be excited about the Blu-ray, save for the fact that there's no way I would ever watch this thing in its entirety again. Instead, I'll stick with the animated movie that at least had the good sense to present the robots center stage.

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

WOPR

I guess it's OK to say I had a huge crush on Ally Sheedy since she's almost exactly the same age. A truly underappreciated movie on so many levels.

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

Totally agree, Wargames is a classic.

Now, all I have are Oreo's, is that okay?

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

This is exactly what I disliked the most about this movie. Like you, I was OK with what felt like reduced screentime for the Transformers in the forst movie, because I figured it was the "origin" movie and they wanted to use the human characters to anchor it, and build the robot story around that. Also, the robot scenes in that one were of the more "wow"-inducing variety, like the introduction by Optimus Prime, discovery of Megatron in the ice, reveal of Megatron and the whole Hoover dam complex etc.

But when they did the EXACT SAME THING in this one, and still introduced even more robots without extending the total robot screen time, that was a huge mistake (IMO ). Like I mentioned in my post above, I too was really annoyed with the fact that there's a stretch in the middle 1/3 of the movie where the main draw, Optimus Prime vs Megatron, is completely absent, and instead replaced by a poor man's version of "National Treasure" (though I guess technically, "National Treasure 2: Book of secrets", was that, since it was an awful movie too ).

Charles S makes the argument that we shouldn't go there and expect deep drama, and thus should accept what we got. The irony is that the FILMMAKERS are playing up the human drama angle, when I'd actually venture that NOBODY who goes to see this movie gives a rat's ass about Sam Witwicky and his family.

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

I've decided I would have been willing cut them another point (to make my score 4/10) if they had gotten Soundwave's voice right.

Charles is hardly the first member to defend the film by recommending checking your brain or not expecting The Godfather (though he did it rather politely). Considering the $200M budget, I am fresh out of passes As usual, no one expected My Dinner With Andre, but Highlander would have been nice.

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

I've been meaning to ask this for awhile, who was that big-ass two-wheeled Decepticon in the beginning?

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

Well I definitely in the category of people who hate most of Michael Bay films (I do like The Rock ) and I hated the first film.

Yet somehow I found myself in the cinema watching this (at least it was free). I had incredibly low expectations and found myself having to lower the bar further Then again it is nowhere near as bad as Batman and Robin.

My main problem though with this film in particular is it seems to have got its priorities wrong. Is based on a toy franchise, its made "in association with Hasbro" yet this film IMO is inappropriate for 5-8 year olds with all the sexual references and innuendo. Someone said that Bay is aiming this film at 14 year old boys but surely they are past playing with Transformers toys.

The film is aimed at a teenage audience and above and its a bad film at that. But it should be suitable for younger kids and i dont think it is. Granted for some of the younger ones most of it may fly over their heads but its completely unnecessary.

Cut out the sexual references and innuendo or at least tone it down a bit and I could accept it as a big blockbuster for young kids which adults may enjoy (esp those who loved the cartoon of the 80s). But instead we have a blockbuster which includes elements which are completely unsuitable for what should be its main demographic - ie. those who are going to buy the toys and play with them.

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

Is there any director in Hollywood who gets the treatment/assistance/cooperation of the military like Bay does? They LOVE him! You get shots of some serious hardware in his movies every time.

I think he may have the funnest job on earth: blow shit up constantly with no limitations, and worship beautiful starlets with his camera.

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

i felt the first movie was better.

in this one, even though we have twice as much robot action, it felt like we didn't have any more scenes with them in it, just twice as many robots crammed in as many scenes as we had in the first movie. I was also disappointed with the whole optimus story line. i was hoping for more of him in it, and then he was gone half the movie. Same with megatron and starscream. I thought this would be the movie where starscream shined and he was pushed to the back also. I also noticed alot of the decipticons sounded the same, although it was nice to hear frank welker as soundwave again.

It all just seemed rushed. Devastator was rushed in his introduction, he was rushed in his use and just everything. Even the ending, i was sitting there going... wow. thats the end? this is how they are ending the movie? the exact same ending as the first with a message to the stars? I was excited for jetfilre too and then to have a robot that needed a cane.... wtf.

hopefully it will be better on the 2nd viewing cause i'll be taking my nephew to see it later this week. we'll see.

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

no doubt this was going to make money even with the critical and popular lambasting it received:

Domestic: $201,246,000
+ Foreign: $186,100,000
= Worldwide: $387,346,000

Production Budget: $200 million



part 3 will make x3 look like citizen kane.

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

This movie gives new meaning to the phrase "churning out product" - I'm sitting there watching this and I actually wanted to walk out of the theater. If it weren't because I was sitting in the middle of the row I would've walked out. Perfect example of clueless executives wanting to cater to a specific demographic (13-year-olds) but at the same time throwing in everything but the kitchen sink in trying to be all-inclusive. Why can't someone make movies for adults without the MTV-editing? Pure overkill

Re: *** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

Woah, relax. I'm not setting up any kind of argument. It just seemed to me, particularly in some of the reviews I read that people were expecting something like the Dark Knight. I didn't say YOU were expecting that, but coming from the perspective of someone who really enjoyed this movie, it does "seem" to me that people were expecting something more, deeper and a movie that was going to get into the allegory and "lessons" that some see in Transformers mythology. I didn't say that is what YOU expected, but it is what a lot of reviewers appeared to be expecting, especially the ultra-fanboys. It's not a "straw man argument, it's not any kind of an argument. I'm just giving my opinion.



I'm not making excuses, I just honestly didn't even think about these issues while I was in the theater. Only after reading other people's thoughts did I say, "yeah, I guess I can see their argument on some of these things"...in fact in my post I specifically said that very thing. I was simply taking into consideration other people's point of view and trying to see why so many people hated it. (hence I mentioned some of the dumb comedy, humor the twins, because on second thought, I can see how this would have brought down the movie for a lot of people)

Sorry for trying to put myself in another person's shoes and trying to see there take on things...no wait, I'm not sorry for that!

Saw it last night. Not nearly as bad as all the "experts" are making it out to be and it's certainly not on the level of aforementioned disasters like Van Helsing and Batman & Robin. It was definitely too long and the "twins" were by far the worst thing about the movie(as bad or worse than Jar Jar). I didn't like it as much as the first Transformers, but it's still the second best "blockbuster" I've seen this summer behind Star Trek and I enjoyed it much more than Wolverine and Terminator Salvation(which isn't saying a whole lot).

The many of us who literally hated this movie did not claim to be experts.  And the twins and the length were hardly the downfall of the film for quite a few of us.

Perhaps this FAQ, which coldly lays out the story, will enlighten.  We need to redefine blockbuster.  Apparently, all it now requires is a visual effects budget.

I'm really sad to see this movie raking in money hand over fist.

The more I think about it, the more I dislike it.  While it doesn't quite approach either of the two Pirates of the Caribbean sequels for me (those remain two of the worst films I have ever seen), the sheer laziness of the story just irks the hell out of me.

I found this online today, which is pretty damn funny.  It points out just about every inconsistency in the film and the author managed to catch a few that never occurred to me:

The 10 Most Confusing Things in 'Revenge of the Fallen'

I was hoping this movie would sink like a stone but most of the 'casual' movie goers I know (including one of my good friends who loves just about everything - bless him) seem to have no problems with it.  This leads me to believe this thing will get to $450 domestically without much trouble. 

Did it ever occur to you that I wasn't specifically referring to "you" as an expert, Chuck? Just possibly I was talking about all of the actual critics on RT that gave this film a cumulative score of 21% or whatever it was. It's not always about you, buddy, but I'm glad to know that you take my opinions so personally.

I could tell the crowd I saw it with loved it. The movie was always going to be a huge hit. It's a sequel to a huge hit, it had a huge marketing campaign and it had giant robot fighting so good or bad, it's going to make a ton of money.

Hahahaha, thanks for posting that FAQ, Chuck.  I had a good laugh while reading through that and it sums up my feelings pretty well.