Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films? - Page 2

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

MGM still holds the rights to a lot of interesting United Artists titles including more than half of the movies that were released in anamorphic 70mm:

The Hallelujah Trail
The Greatest Story Ever Told
It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World
Khartoum

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

Universal is probably going to churn through the titles previously released on HD DVD before we'll see any of their other titles.

We're probably a few years away from reaching that point......... if anyone still releases catalog titles on this format that is.




Pfftt......That was a Digitalbits rumor which are as reliable as flipping a coin.

They also reported Apocalypse Now, Chinatown, Ten Commandments, Titanic Wings, African Queen, Indy trilogy and several other titles all from Paramount for 2009.

In addition, they've reported 3 different dates (Jan 08, Aug, 08, Sept 08) for Braveheart in less than 12 months.

Then there was Clash of the Titans for 2008, LOA was coming this year (yup), Alien films for last year, then this year, now next year, etc, etc,

Even for rumors (such is the nature of them) their batting average is pretty poor.

Now I doubt they report anything without some kind of sourse but they need to use more discression in filtering the rumors they report. Journalistic integrity has taken a backseat to an over-eagerness to promote this format and/or to accumulate web-site hits.



Nothing is guaranteed at this point. Seriously if evergreen catalogs like the Bond films can't sell very well on this format then what chance do these titles have of being released?



Unfortunately I agree with you. and I'm glad I never dumped my DVD collection as I just don't expect to see all that much catalog titles (let alone pre-1970) in the future.




(I'm not laughing at you BTW) But......I've been reading these are being working on for each of the past 3 years. and each of the past 3 years they're always reported as coming later in the year, then the next year, and each next year we read the same thing, the cycle continues, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

It's obvious Sony has been holding these back (not because they're "being worked on") and I don't see that changing.




Too simplistic and incorrect. The people who made DVD catalog sales bloom all those years didn't just die off in the past couple of years. Puuuulease.....

You have low adoption due to the economy, before that the format war, you have a large portion of buyers with standard def displays (pointless for them to buy into a format where there's no great benefit). There are people who have large collections on DVD who have no interest in upgrading to the format at all. You have a similar bunch who upgraded to the format but don't want to repurchase the titles they already own on DVD, etc, etc.

The Studios themselves can take a lot of the blame for their greed.........the Format War, High prices, holding back special features on previous DVD editions.

You also have a large portion of the BD demographic who've probably never seen a film made before 1990 (let alone 1970 ) outside of Star Wars, Indy and Back to the Future.

Now here we are with a format 3 years old and sales are still floundering except for the most recent new release blockbusters.

I'm starting to doubt the health and viability of this format.



People put too much stock in those rumors. They're wrong more times than right.

I'll believe it when the studio announces it.

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

I was hoping that Universal would release the Alfred Hitchcock films on blu ray this year. It is nice to hear that Warner Bros will hopefully be bringing North By Northwest to blu ray in 2009. I noted that It's A Wonderful Life is coming to blu ray this year too and I would like to get that one as well.

Outside of 1960's Bond films and the Adam West 1966 Batman film I haven't picked up many older films on blu ray.

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

I guess what is fortunate for me (or more truthfully, my wallet) is that there are still very few titles currently out that are must haves. I either have them on DVD already and can't justify upgrading, the BRs have issues (mediocre transfers, missing extras found on DVD) or they are simply too expensive (and yes, I remember the LD days - my value for dollar has changed a lot since then).

I can't see what the market is for the majority of newer films, I have no interest in them. They may be fine for a rental, but have no rewatch value. The titles I'm interested in have proven their worth over the decades as films I will rewatch many times.

Regarding Sony, I would be very surprised if their catalogue of HD transfers doesn't extend to the majority of the titles they've released on DVD. I don't think most people would expect anything but a bare bones release for deep catalogue titles, so the slowness of release is likely a marketing decision.

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

Jim, I think your view is a bit too doom-and-gloom. Sony will release those catalog titles I listed as "Guaranteed" - not all at once, but they are, by far, their biggest pre-70s catalog titles. Bigger than most of the current 7 they already released. The reason they have not yet come out is 1) Sony has really raised their bar of A/V presentation the last few years, and 2) they haven't found a marketing window they like yet.

And there have been plenty of catalog titles released in the 1st 6 months of 2009. 171 by my count by the major studios (Warner, Fox, MGM, Sony, Paramount, Universal, Buena Vista, Lionsgate). It's just a lot of them are not pre-70s. They skew 80s-90s. Which is understandable. Blu-ray has grown over the past year despite the bad economy and the downtrend in DVD sales.

No, releases will continue to come. It's all a matter of when.

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

So 6 more from Sony ... guaranteed ... at some point. I'm overwhelmed by this generous drop in the ocean.

I have no doubt that the studios want to sell us their pre-1970 catalogue in HD. They want to make money from their catalogue after all and they don't create HD masters to let them gather dust. I just don't think we'll see many of them on BD. That is not to say that BD is not a viable format but for most of the pre-1970 catalogue titles for which there is no market on BD I'm pretty sure we'll see video on demand or burn on demand as an alternative method of delivery within the next 5 years.

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

BD on demand would be prohibitively expensive for the foreseeable future.

I'm sure there will be others than those six, but any other titles are more of a guessing game, IMO, and would likely be widescreen color films from the 50s-60s. Easy Rider is rumored to be on the way this Fall, so that's one more of the "big six". I think the most telling sign of what Sony's plans are for older catalog is when they release their first Academy Ratio black & white films. I bet they'll be observing the sales of Paramount's release of It's a Wonderful Life this fall quite closely. It's by far Capra's most popular film, and if it only sells mildly - at Christmas time, no less - I don't see Sony rushing to release It Happened One Night or Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

It's good to hear that the elements are available for a great Blu-ray disc but you're probably correct that we have a long wait for Lord Jim.

Another movie originally distributed by Columbia that would look great on Blu-ray is Barabbas. Does anyone know if Sony owns the rights or have they reverted to the Dino Di Laurentiis estate?

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

no doom-and-gloom, I'm just a realist.

If the format is doing well then common sense dictates that we should see a bigger slate of catalog titles released this 3rd and 4th quarter vs the previous year. So far it looks like the studios are trimming back. Not a good sign given the 4th quarter is when the studios make the majority of their sales.

I'm sure the format will continue to survive basically on new releases. Unfortunately for me that's barely enough to keep me interested as there's only a handful of new titles each year that are worth purchasing. Most are good for 1 viewing and that's it.




Who's guaranteeing these releases and how are they guaranteed?

None of us have the power to go promising titles.



What marketing window would they be waiting for? A LOA remake with Jude Law? A Kwai or Navarone remake? One of those stupid anniversary dates maybe? I guess the nearest is 2012.

The #1 reason is catalog sales are still poor in a now maturing 3 year old format. I have a really hard time believing that it takes 3 years (and counting) of preparation for these titles.




I think the only reason we've seen a half-way decent portion of catalog titles in the first half is that work was already done on them and they were already in the pipeline before the economy collapsed.

Now we are seeing signs that the studios are scaling back and all these catalog titles that were planned for 2009 are falling of the calender like so many dead flies (if those dozens of digitalbits rumors had any weight at all that is).




Oh we'll see a few here and there as the studios flounder around trying to figure out what sells and how to turn a profit. Unfortunately the latest trend seems to be trying to introduce premium pricing ala Warners Box-O Junk exclusives and Disney/Miramax raising their SRP to $45 for a basic catalog release.............
Amazon.com: Hero Special Edition [Blu-ray]: Jet Li, Daoming Chen, Donnie Yen, Maggie Cheung, Ziyi Zhang: Movies & TV

Laserdisc pricing...........Oh joy!

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

I guess you missed the DVD release cycle. While there were catalog titles being released, the majority were using outdated (LD) transfers. It took a lot longer than three years before we saw deep catalog and/or proper transfers being released. There are still titles being released to DVD for the first time, more than a decade after format launch. I would prefer to wait for a proper BR release than suffer (again) through a glut of rehashed transfers filling space until a proper release is prepared.

It is easy to be impatient, but the studios know that the majority of sales come within the first few weeks of release, and until the market is big enough to have significant numbers (sales) on catalog titles, they will dribble out like they have in every previous format. We are still very early in the HD life cycle.

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

When January 2010 rolls along I'll crunch the numbers and do a comparison between Q3-Q4 2008 and Q3-Q4 2009. I suspect the number of catalog titles by the major studios will be nearly identical, if not in favor of 2009 (and that's with Paramount's catalog #'s in 2008 being inflated by their HD-DVD exclusives making their way to Blu-ray. Universal's numbers will be inflated for a while due to this same issue, probably well into 2010).

By my count, here are the 2008 catalog release numbers for July-December 2008 for the major studios (list does not include TV shows):

Buena Vista: 7
Fox: 22
Lionsgate: 6
MGM: 8
Paramount: 23
Sony: 27
Universal: 19
Warner: 38

Total: 150

By the way, these same studios (collectively) have already surpassed their Q3-Q4 2008 totals in Q1-Q2 2009:

Buena Vista: 10
Fox: 23
Lionsgate: 3
MGM: 22
Paramount: 33
Sony: 25
Universal: 25
Warner: 30

Total: 171

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

I've been a little disappointed with how catalog titles in general have been handled on Blu-ray. I've been disappointed with the PQ in many cases (many have far too much DNR - though Sony is usually good there), pricing, and selection. I'm sure there are reasons for this - studios recycling old DNR'd masters especially in bad economic times, low demand, and the high pricing has caused a lot of people to probably decide to just hold onto the DVD as they don't want to pay that much again for the movie...even if it's a technical improvement. All in all, new releases have been largely quite good.

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

Guess again.


Apples and Oranges....I guess you missed the the last 3 years of BD/HD releases and haven't seen The Searchers, Close Encounters, Godfather, How the West Was Won, The Adventures of Robin Hood, etc, etc.

"Proper" transfers have been released from very early on. Other than occasional excessive DNR (which will probably be a danger to releases as much in 2012 as it is today), there aren't any kinks to work out as long as the studio puts in the effort.


Sure, who wouldn't......but the wait isn't happenening for proper transfers it's for poor sales.



Crunch away. I already stated the first half of this year was pretty decent.

Who knows Q3/4 might turn out okay, but we might need to look beyond the numbers. Releases like Catwoman, Battlefield Earth and Wild Wild West aren't in the same league as a How the West Was Won, Bonnie and Clyde and Cool Hand Luke.

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

One can always cherry pick. I'd say that It's a Wonderful Life, The Wizard of Oz, Gone with the Wind, Braveheart, Gladiator, Forrest Gump, The Lord of the Rings, and the like are easily in that league. The 2008 numbers had their fair share of "lesser" titles like Outbreak, Blue Streak, and Universal Soldier. I don't see the difference.

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

Both Ben Hur and Lawrence of Arabia definitely could not have been ready earlier than this year in the form that they will be released. Both are the crown juwels of the large format catalogs of Sony and Warner and therefore they will not get the same treatment as other catalog titles.

I cannot speak for other titles mentioned but for Ben Hur and Lawrence we can expect an at least 8k scanning process and that alone is something that has only been done for two large format classics until now (Baraka and South Pacific).

Add to that the desire of both studios to go back to the original negatives and things get even more complicated - these take time to get right and I have no problem with waiting for them for another year if the result is as good as I hope it is.

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

Work is slow again today so I have some free time to look at the numbers for at least Q3 2009. Many releases for September are just getting announced, so this number could go up still. Also, there's likely to be a delay or two (just the law of averages), so keep that in mind.

Buena Vista: 5
Fox: 7
Lionsgate: 6 (Double their Q1-Q2 2009 output, interestingly enough)
MGM: 5
Paramount: 10
Sony: 15
Universal: 5
Warner: 19

Total: 72

Titles:

7/7

The Deep (Sony)
Grumpy Old Men (Warner)

7/14

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (Sony) (Via box set with 2 previously released titles)
I Still Know What You Did Last Summer (Sony)
This Is Spinal Tap (MGM)
The Towering Inferno (Fox)

7/21

300 (Warner) (Re-issue)
I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry (Universal)
Midnight Express (Sony)

7/28

12 Monkeys (Universal)
A River Runs Through It (Sony)
The Waterboy (Buena Vista)

8/4

Big Trouble in Little China (Fox)
The Last Starfighter (Universal)
My Cousin Vinny (Fox)

8/11

About Last Night... (Sony)
Blue Thunder (Sony)
Chaos (Lionsgate)
Cutthroat Island (Lionsgate)
The Ninth Gate (Lionsgate)
Replicant (Lionsgate)
See No Evil (Lionsgate)
St. Elmo's Fire (Sony)
Starman (Sony)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1990) (Warner)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Secret of the Ooze (Warner)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III (Warner)

8/18

Go (Sony)

8/25

How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days (Paramount)
sex, lies and videotape (Sony)

9/1

Braveheart (Paramount)
The Dark Crystal (Sony)
The Girl Next Door (Fox)
Gladiator (Paramount)
High Crimes (Fox)
Labyrinth (Sony)
M*A*S*H (Fox)

9/8

Catwoman (Warner)
Creepshow (Warner)
Dead Calm (Warner)
Freddy vs. Jason (Warner)
Friday (Warner)
Menace II Society (Warner)
The New World (Warner)
Over the Top (Warner)
The Postman (1997) (Warner)
Requiem for a Dream (Lionsgate)
Set It Off (Warner)
Silverado (Sony)
Snakes on a Plane (Warner)
Sphere (Warner)
The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (2003) (Warner)

9/15

48 Hrs. (Paramount)
Child's Play (MGM)
Deep Impact (Paramount)
Escape from L.A. (Paramount)
The Firm (Paramount)
Hannibal (MGM) (Via box set with 2 previously released titles)
Hero (2002) (Buena Vista)
Iron Monkey (Buena Vista)
K-19: The Widowmaker (Paramount)
The Legend of Drunken Master (Buena Vista)
Manhunter (MGM) (Via box set with 2 previously released titles)
Misery (MGM)
Punch-Drunk Love (Sony)
The Score (Paramount)
Varsity Blues (Paramount)
Wrong Turn (Fox)
Zatoichi (2003) (Buena Vista)

9/22

Hot Fuzz (Universal)
Shaun of the Dead (Universal)

9/29

The Wizard of Oz (Warner)

By comparison, Q3 2008 numbers (not gonna list out titles):

Buena Vista: 6
Fox: 6
Lionsgate: 4
MGM: 0
Paramount: 12
Sony: 14
Universal: 12
Warner: 17

Total: 71

So, essentially the same (with some pending announcements for 9/22 and 9/29 to come I'm sure).

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

If this is true then it has to be coming to the US around the same time. Seems like a logical choice, though I neglected to mention it earlier.

Another one no one has brought up that I'd say has a decent shot: Major Dundee

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

This makes almost no sense whatsoever. Classics seem to sell well amongst people still interested in physical media, which certainly skews older than the digital delivery methods, so how do you figure there's "no market" for them on the former but there is one on the latter?

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

Wow, Jim. I'm amazed that you managed to post a whole bunch of unsourced and unfounded assumptions without providing a single shred of evidence, but that you also managed to cherry-pick just about as much as you possibly could regarding prices and work necessary for titles such as LoA. And your constant "if the format is still around" nonsense is ridiculous for a format that's still growing. The studios push it, the manufacturers push it, and frankly, they're the one's who are determining the course of the market.

Others have done most of the work taking down your erroneous claims, but there's still a bunch that you seemed to pull out of nowhere:
Really? The best you could come up with was an O'Reilly-esque dig at Bill Hunt as some sort of format boogeyman?
Considering that all 3 volumes were in the top 20 upon release, I don't know where you're coming up with this. Either way, your point here doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Ah, the oft-mentioned but never-supported "demographic" argument. What, pray tell, is this demographic? One would assume that if this canard were true, then Pinocchio wouldn't have (a) outsold Transporter 3 when they were both released, nor (b) been one of the top 10-selling Blu-rays this year, but it managed to do both. And of course, your assertion about the Bond films also came out of thin air, and was also wrong, so I can't say as I'm too surprised. In the meantime, if you're going to keep on making this demographic claim, back it up with evidence. Assumptions mean nothing, especially when even a cursory check of news items proves you wrong.
As I said, this isn't even remotely the case. The top titles have sold well into the millions, and even catalog is doing quite well. If you'd actually bothered to read the weekly sales at HMM, you'd have known this before making bogus claims.
For a "realist", you've presented essentially nothing from actual evidence, only your feelings on the subject. The other realists have actually provided numbers, links, and info. You have assertions and a single cherry-picked link.
More poor timing on your part. Not only did you choose the most expensive catalog title from one announcement, and then depend on MSRP to justify your argument (hint: LD had MSRPs that make even your poor example look downright frugal), but you picked the day that a studio announced lower prices.

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

From the article linked above (emphasis mine). It doesn't look like Warner is sitting on their catalog for lack of sales. I still see room for downward movement in pricing, but that is always the case with new media. How many of us shelled out $30+ for some (most) of the crap now residing in the $5 DVD bin?

Whether Sony joins in with more budget catalog is yet to be seen, but as I mentioned earlier, we are only 3 years into the format, and there still isn't enough market penetration to warrant a ton of deep catalog that will stale before the next holiday season. I suspect that if Q4 sees the reported drops in player prices that we will see a lot more titles in the pipeline for 2010.

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

Nice to see the announced price drops.

BTW, anyone else noticed that Paramount/Dreamworks apparently announced The Soloist at just $29.99 MSRP? Wonder if that's just a mistake or an early indication of price drop even for day-and-date new releases.

_Man_

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

Sony has released plenty of budget catalog titles ($20-25). It's just that most of them are 80s-90s, not 50s-60s.

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

Classics do not sell well. The proof is in the pudding. If they sold well we would have seen more than the 48 pre-1970 titles we have now or not?
I have no doubt that A list titles like LOA, Kwai, Ben-Hur, the Hitchcock's etc. will become available on regular BD but for deeper catalogue titles I'm sure that we'll see an alternative method of delivery eventually.
The reason is simple. It cuts costs for the studios so they don't have to sell as many copies to make a profit. Warner already does it on DVD with the archive collection: http://www.wbshop.com/Warner-Archive...efault,sc.html


There's only 1 pre-1970 title in your list so that's not very impressive is it?

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

Exactly - split up the release list by decades and there are ZERO releases for the 40ies, 50ies and 60ies - not only by Sony but by all studios combined for all of the third quarter !

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

That wasn't the point I was countering. The conversation had shifted to catalog titles in general by that point. Just like with DVD, the studios will release more recent catalog before older catalog.

To put it frankly, if you think cinema died January 1st, 1970, you're simply not gonna get a lot of releases for the time being. Considering that the bread and butter of a new format is always the new releases and the recent catalog (releases within the last 20-25 years) getting anything older than 1984-ish is gonna be more rare.

It becomes even more of a challenge to release older catalog due to the less-forgiving aspect of 1080p, as well as an HDTV user base that want their big 16:9 HDTV screen filled with vibrantly colorful films. There's a reason Pinocchio had optional color sidebars themed to the film as it plays.

I know that's not what the enthusiasts want to hear, but it's the truth. Let the studios get the major hitters from the recent 25 years dominate for a while, and then they'll dig a little deeper. They're growing the market with these releases, increasing the user base for older releases to come.

I regards to Sony, I would say they are doing a pretty solid job so far.

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

The 40s are predominantly an HD pipe dream right now. A decade dominated by black and white academy ratio films is like arsenic to the majority of HDTV owners.

Re: Is SONY releasing any pre 1970's films?

It is indeed pretty obvious that the 40s are regarded like this but at least from the announcements for US releases it is obvious that the 50s and 60s do not fare better.

It is just an observation though and not a complaint. While we might be doing rather fine with 80s and 90s and even 70s catalog it would be incorrect to say that we are doing fine with catalog in general as other decades certainly are much less well represented. Two of these decades, the 50s and 60s, also offer widescreen and color movies that have the potential to look very good on Blu-Ray so one might expect more releases of movies made during those years. In the end if it sells good enough I am sure we will see more older catalog but I have a feeling it will be less and later than on DVD for a long time.