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post #31 of 46
6/19/09 at 7:15pm

Re: What guns do you own?

I have a friend who owns many handguns. He was a gun nut in his younger days, and we had a lot of fun with them.

All my guns are in the closet, made safe, but waiting for the burglar alarm to go off!
post #32 of 46
6/19/09 at 9:47pm

Re: What guns do you own?

And when the alarm goes off, then what?
post #33 of 46
6/20/09 at 1:22pm

Re: What guns do you own?

Then I protect my family.
post #34 of 46
6/20/09 at 10:47pm

Re: What guns do you own?

I sure hope you don't shoot an unarmed burglar. Then you will be the "bad guy".
post #35 of 46
6/21/09 at 2:50pm

Re: What guns do you own?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Mcc
I sure hope you don't shoot an unarmed burglar. Then you will be the "bad guy".

I strongly disagree. Every day there are numerous break-ins by rapists, burglars and murderers that are not carrying a firearm but are perfectly capable of destroying the lives of your family. Many of them are so high on drugs that they feel no pain and are out of their mind. If so, less than deadly means of stopping them may be ineffective.

Sure, it would be nice if the homeowner has the opportunity to see if the burglar is Shirley Temple or Jason from Friday the 13th. If it's Jason you better have something better than a Super Soaker Flash Flood to protect your family, and it wouldn't make you the bad guy for doing so.
post #36 of 46
6/21/09 at 6:48pm

Re: What guns do you own?

Jay, as a retired police officer, all I can say is good luck with what you're saying. I think you've been watching too many movies. And I didn't say "not carrying a firearm". I said "unarmed". I know of no state in the USA where it is legal to shoot an unarmed burglar/intruder in your house.
post #37 of 46
6/21/09 at 8:41pm

Re: What guns do you own?

Jim, we have no way of verifying whether you truly are a "retired police officer" but it doesn't matter. You are quite simply wrong.

What's been called the "castle doctrine" has been adopted by many states, and is pending in many others. This site has a handy set of links to the actual state governments' either pending legislation or statute pages outlining the status of the castle doctine in their own jurisdictions.

Caslte doctrine law .. know your self defense rights
post #38 of 46
6/21/09 at 9:40pm

Re: What guns do you own?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Mcc
I think you've been watching too many movies.

Actually my opinions are derived from watching local news reports in the numerous cities that I've lived in or visited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Mcc
I know of no state in the USA where it is legal to shoot an unarmed burglar/intruder in your house.

From Dennis's link you can read the Oklahoma law concerning this. In Oklahoma it's nicknamed the "Make My Day" law. Basically, in states with this type of law if a person breaks into someone's home and the homeowner has "a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another" then the homeowner may use deadly force to defend his or her family without fear of prosecution.
post #39 of 46
6/22/09 at 12:13pm

Re: What guns do you own?

No where did I say I would shoot the burglar. I said I would protect my family. Big jump you made there.

And as a former police officer myself, I think I'm quite capable of making a "shoot / don't shoot" decision. My preference? I come out with my Glock pulled, the burglar sees it, hands up, on the ground, call 911. Simple as that. Or, they run back out the door. God forbid they are there to do something to me or my family, because then the choices become narrower.

As long as my wife or child aren't injured, it's a win.
post #40 of 46
6/22/09 at 12:17pm

Re: What guns do you own?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Nicholls
What's been called the "castle doctrine" has been adopted by many states, and is pending in many others. This site has a handy set of links to the actual state governments' either pending legislation or statute pages outlining the status of the castle doctine in their own jurisdictions.

Caslte doctrine law .. know your self defense rights

Does a lack of a clickable link next to "New York" on that list mean it is a state that doesn't have any legal standing on the issue?
post #41 of 46
6/22/09 at 2:28pm

Re: What guns do you own?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Does a lack of a clickable link next to "New York" on that list mean it is a state that doesn't have any legal standing on the issue?

This:

3. A person in possession or control of, or licensed or privileged to be in, a dwelling or an occupied building, who reasonably believes that another person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such dwelling or building, may use deadly physical force upon such other person when he or she reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of such burglary.


is from here:

New York Penal Law Section 35.20 - Justification; Use Of Physical Force In Defense Of Premises And In Defense Of A Person In The Course Of Burglary. - New York Attorney Resources - New York Laws
post #42 of 46
6/22/09 at 4:26pm

Re: What guns do you own?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Tennison
No where did I say I would shoot the burglar. I said I would protect my family. Big jump you made there.

And as a former police officer myself, I think I'm quite capable of making a "shoot / don't shoot" decision. My preference? I come out with my Glock pulled, the burglar sees it, hands up, on the ground, call 911. Simple as that. Or, they run back out the door. God forbid they are there to do something to me or my family, because then the choices become narrower.

As long as my wife or child aren't injured, it's a win.
__________________________________________________ _______________

I didn't make any big jump. My earlier statement was, "I sure HOPE you don't shoot an unarmed burglar". I agree with your preference. And in the perfect world, that's how it would happen. My concern is all the people out there that weren't trained like you and I were. Believe me, I have no sympathy for the burglars out there.
post #43 of 46
6/22/09 at 8:46pm

Re: What guns do you own?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Taylor
This:

3. A person in possession or control of, or licensed or privileged to be in, a dwelling or an occupied building, who reasonably believes that another person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such dwelling or building, may use deadly physical force upon such other person when he or she reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of such burglary.

Wow. In contrast, I remember in law school reading an Australian case where a farmer used a shotgun on burglars, and was successfully sued by an injured burglar for damages under occupiers' liability.

Oddly, I have no idea how far we can go locally (never thought about it and the topic hasn't come up).

OK, looked it up, deadly force is allowed if you think you (or another person) may be killed, grievously hurt, raped or kidnapped by the assailant; or in defence of property if the wrongdoer is committing robbery, house-breaking by night, msichief by fire, or theft, mischief or house-trespass that may cause death or grievous hurt.

I guess we have the "Castle doctrine" as well...
post #44 of 46
6/23/09 at 7:45am

Re: What guns do you own?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yee-Ming
OK, looked it up, deadly force is allowed if you think you (or another person) may be killed, grievously hurt, raped or kidnapped by the assailant; or in defence of property if the wrongdoer is committing robbery, house-breaking by night, msichief by fire, or theft, mischief or house-trespass that may cause death or grievous hurt.

I guess we have the "Castle doctrine" as well...

What the Castle doctrine does: is adds the presumption of intent to do harm to the occupants by someone breaking into that residence. In other words, the homeowner does not have to prove the burglers' intent to kill, maim, etc. because the burler's presence in the home automatically assumes that intent under the Castle doctine statutes.
post #45 of 46
6/23/09 at 10:33am

Re: What guns do you own?

The result of what Nathan pointed out is that the Castle doctrine protects homeowners from arrest and civil lawsuits when they're a victim of a home burglary.

This is from Oklahoma's Castle doctrine:

F. A person who uses force, as permitted pursuant to the provisions of subsections B and D of this section, is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force. As used in this subsection, the term "criminal prosecution" includes charging or prosecuting the defendant.

G. A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force, but the law enforcement agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

H. The court shall award reasonable attorney fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection F of this section.
post #46 of 46
6/23/09 at 11:21am

Re: What guns do you own?

Sorry, we can't allow this discussion to go any further since you guys want to talk about gun laws which in itself is political territory that we don't want to touch on here.






Crawdaddy
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