Problem with my power outlets

I've got a dividing wall between the living room and den. It's a standard wall--6" thick and hollow. Each side of the wall has two power outlets, and the ones in opposite rooms are directly across the wall from each other. In other words, if you took off the plates and the guts from a pair, you'd be seeing into the other room. They are both on the same breaker. Starting last night, the den side outlets are no longer working. The breaker wasn't tripped. The outlets on the living room side are fine. But, both outlets in the den are kaput. Flipping the breaker on and off didn't help.

Any theories? I haven't had a chance to mess with the outlets, since they are behind an entertainment center and not easy to get at. I figure I'd ask here before calling someone in or even moving all this stuff.

From the "can't rule it out as coincidence" department, I got a new refrigerator yesterday. It's not on the same circuit, is supposed to be much more energy efficient, simply plugs in and is running fine. But, it is something to mention.

Re: Problem with my power outlets

All the breakers are in an attic upstairs and none of them have been tripped. A couple of months ago, I went through and catalogued what all of the circuits controlled and found these were on the same line. I don't know if the outlets have a common wire, but I suppose I'll have to move some furniture to find out. Or, maybe if I'm lucky, I can open it from the other side? I'm going to try that. I'm not sure if I'll know what I'm looking at, though.

Re: Problem with my power outlets

That makes sense. If there are two on a line and the one closest to the source goes out, the current can't continue to the other. So, I likely have one outlet that's okay. But, the guy can check that. When I can get some help, I'll probably eyeball it a little first, but I won't know what I'm doing. Besides, if something is causing the wires to burn out, I really need an expert to make sure everything's safe. Thanks for both of your responses!

Re: Problem with my power outlets

I'm not even sure what that means. I just know I have a breaker box upstairs (I said attic earlier, but I meant to say they are in a closet), and these are all on the 15s. My refrigerator and other kitchen outlets are on the 20s.

To answer Jay's earlier question, I don't think there is a spring, but I'm not entirely sure. I opened up the other side and saw a black, white and a copper wire trailing out from the box. I could probably get a better picture of what's happening on the other side by removing that box, but I didn't want to do it tonight. I can say that because the outlet is hard to get to, I've had a surge protector plugged in that I use to plug things in to that outlet. So, I didn't damage anything by trying to pull a plug, because that's not an easy thing to do. I'm not sure if that's what you meant by asking about a wire being pulled out. If it could happen on it's own, it's possible. But, I didn't do it.

I'd like to be able to give better answers to help out with this, but I'm in the dark when it comes to electricty (no pun intended). I'm a little better with plumbing (but no expert).

Re: Problem with my power outlets

Cryan,

I don't have any outlets like that. It's an old house and probably not up to modern spec.

I moved the furniture and opened up the outlets, but it didn't tell me much. There are metal boxes inside that are nailed into the studs, so I can't even get them out to get a better look. I'm limited to the wires coming out of the backs of the outlets. Here's a little of what I found. Hmm. I was going to try to draw a picture using asterisks and stuff, but I can make up a quick Paint picture:



The Ls are living room sockets and they are live. The Ds are in the den, and D3 is the only one working. They are all on the same breaker.

L1 has one set of wires coming in and two sets running out. All are live.
L2 has one set coming in and one set running out. Both are live.
D1 has one set coming in and one set running out. Both are dead.
D2 has one set coming in. It is dead.
D3 has one set coming in and one set running out. Both are live.

I don't have a wiring diagram, but based on the way it is set up, I believe the power enters at L1 and runs to L2 and possibly D3. L2 would logically run to D1, and D1 to D2. At least, that's my non-expert logic. If so, the break is right there between L2 and D1. I was really hoping D1's incoming wires were hot, which would have meant a bad outlet. They aren't, though.

Is there a way to get those metal boxes out of the wall? If so, maybe I can do this myself. If not, electrician and holes in the wall.

Of course, I'm just assuming it's wired up that way. If D1 and D2 get their power coming in from upstairs, the break could be elsewhere. Wouldn't L2 probably be a dead end like D2 if that was the case, if it wasn't sending power on to anywhere else?

Am I making any sense?




Edit: Tomorrow, I'm going to determine the outgoing wires from L2 and twist some wires on them and run them around the doorway to D1. In theory, if the break is between those two, I should suddenly have power to both D1 and D2. That'll narrow things down considerably.

Re: Problem with my power outlets

Success. Running wire from the out on L2 to the in on D1 provided power to both D1 and D2. So, I now know where and what the problem is and have to figure out what to do about it. I have fantasies about tying spare wire onto the wire on the den side and new wire onto the wire on the living room side and pulling it through. But, these wires are pretty stiff and the holes in the metal boxes are pretty tight. It'll still be worth a try before cutting a hole in the wall.

Possible mouse problem? I've had meese before, so it could be. They've only been in the garage so far, but these walls run up to the attic where there's a wooden cap. One of them might have been able to get through. If so, I hope he lived to tell the tale after biting the wire. I don't need dead mouse funk in the walls.

To answer the other question, the wires look pretty good in the boxes. No telling what they're like in the wall, though.

Re: Problem with my power outlets

Thanks for that, Henry. Not knowing much about electricity, I'm trying to be careful. One time, I was unplugging an old bathroom fan and the plug housing disintegrated in my hand. Without thinking, I went to grab the exposed prongs! My brain kicked in a second before I would have touched it.

There's a famous internet story (and a true one) about a kid who went by Sk0t who was in mIRC chat and said, "My sister's trying to use her telescope, but the damn street light is too bright. I'm going to go cut the cables. brb." Hours went by. "Where did Sk0t go?" A friend came on and said, "Sk0t died."

1999 Darwin Award: Lights Out Addition

Jay, the only skeletons I know of are under the dirt floor of my basement (I hope the police aren't reading this).

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Re: Problem with my power outlets

Yeah, I think there is some foam and it does look like an impossible task. I'll probably have someone out, but I'm glad to at least have confirmation on the layout of the wiring and some idea where the problem is.

I actually talked to an electrician, and he said if I called him out, what he would do would be to drill a hole straight through the back of the metal boxes and run a new wire across. That may allow access to the bad wiring as well. We'll see. You're right that fixing it but remaining in the dark about the cause doesn't seem like a great idea.