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Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

post #1 of 30
6/9/09 at 7:27am
Thread Starter 
Interesting article here on Apple's declining relationship with AT&T.
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post #2 of 30
6/9/09 at 8:22am
Thread Starter 

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Another article, Four Reasons why iPhone owners hate AT&T
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post #3 of 30
6/9/09 at 9:59am

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein
Interesting article here on Apple's declining relationship with AT&T.
The PC World article engages in more rewriting of history. Apple didn't choose AT&T over Verizon -- Verizon chose not carry the iPhone. One presumes that Verizon has seen the error of their ways, and Apple has seen the downsides of exclusivity.

So, one hopes, when the AT&T deal expires, the iPhone will be on AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon.
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post #4 of 30
6/9/09 at 10:51am

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

I would really like to defend AT&T here, but it's difficult. It's fairly evident now that the AT&T/Apple exclusivity contract is coming to an end.

It may not matter all that much to AT&T, though. The contract on my original iPhone will be up in August and I'll be upgrading to a 3GS then. And I suspect that that will be the case for anybody still using the original iPhone. By the end of summer, MMS will probably be available. And tethering and enhanced-speed 3G will definitely make it out before the end of the new two year contracts. So for millions of iPhone 3GS customers there may not be a compelling reason to jump to Verizon anytime soon.

But its still pretty lousy of AT&T to make their exclusive iPhone customers wait like this. I defended them on the Slingplayer issue, but the MMS and tethering issues are just pathetic! Especially when both features have been long requested by iPhone users and are currently available for many other AT&T phones.
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post #5 of 30
6/9/09 at 11:00am

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Bolus
The contract on my original iPhone will be up in August and I'll be upgrading to a 3GS then.
If you have a first gen iPhone, you can upgrade anytime you want without incurring a penalty -- the original iPhone was not subsidized by AT&T, so it has always been "upgrade eligible".
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post #6 of 30
6/9/09 at 11:42am

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Normally I'm very reserved and controlled...but F@# AT&T!

I can say that because I'm a current customer, and the signal reception in my apt. sucks (Los Angeles). Everyone else who comes over (Verizon, Sprint customers) seems to get good reception at my place.

Meanwhile, not two blocks from my place, a huge billboard proclaiming "More Bars in More Places...AT&T". I give it the finger every time I walk by it on my way to work.

I'm still getting an iPhone because I've been wanting one for some time, but there is no defense for how AT&T is performing. The minute the iPhone becomes untethered to AT&T, I'm switching carriers!
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post #7 of 30
6/9/09 at 4:07pm

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Todorov
If you have a first gen iPhone, you can upgrade anytime you want without incurring a penalty -- the original iPhone was not subsidized by AT&T, so it has always been "upgrade eligible".

Ted,

I, of course, know that!

I thought I would let the 3GS go through a "shake-out" cruise first. I'm also a little curious to find out what works and what doesn't after I upgrade my original 8GB iPhone to the 3.0 firmware next week. I have WiFi nearly everywhere I go so I can afford to wait a few months. Besides, by then I fully expect MMS to be available.

When I do upgrade, I'm going all the way ... 32GB!! (Of course we'll all need it for the videos ...)
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post #8 of 30
6/9/09 at 5:37pm

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Quote:
Normally I'm very reserved and controlled...but F@# ____________________!

I can say that because I'm a current customer, and the signal reception in my apt. sucks. Everyone else who comes over (_______________ customers) seems to get good reception at my place.

Go anywhere that has some sort of coverage and you can fill in the blanks with any 2 random cellphone carriers.
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post #9 of 30
6/9/09 at 6:20pm

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolesrule
Go anywhere that has some sort of coverage and you can fill in the blanks with any 2 random cellphone carriers.
Not I. I've never had bad coverage with Verizon. NY through to Indiana, to Tennessee. Los Angeles. Cabo San Lucas. Toronto and Ottawa. Always got "bars". There's someone to hate everything. But customer surveys consistently rank Verizon above AT&T, just as they rank Apple above all the PC makers. I won't tout V as unfallable -- I've had my gripes -- but it's incorrect to just wave away AT&T grumblings as equivalent to the grumbling about the other carriers.
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post #10 of 30
6/9/09 at 9:02pm

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolesrule
Go anywhere that has some sort of coverage and you can fill in the blanks with any 2 random cellphone carriers.
No doubt true. But since I'm primarily concerned about myself, that's really irrelevant to me.

Seriously I would change carriers except:
1. Family is on AT&T
2. Girlfriend is on AT&T
3. Closest friends I talk to most are on AT&T
4. iPhone is AT&T
5. 15% off of AT&T service due to job

Monetarily it would not make sense to switch because I get free minutes with those I talk to the most and it would be a considerable amount to switch plans, not to mention the loss of the job discount.

PS - Thanks for your sympathy Dave
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post #11 of 30
6/9/09 at 9:17pm

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Man, I keep wanting to get an iPhone, but there's always a reason "just around the corner" to wait a bit. Of course, not being an AT&T customer, this has become a greater and greater concern as a problem. Maybe around the next corner Verizon will be an option....
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post #12 of 30
6/10/09 at 5:42am

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryH
Man, I keep wanting to get an iPhone, but there's always a reason "just around the corner" to wait a bit. Of course, not being an AT&T customer, this has become a greater and greater concern as a problem. Maybe around the next corner Verizon will be an option....
Just keep in mind that that next corner is most likely 24 months from now. 12 at the earliest, but IMO very unlikely.

Both Verizon and Apple have publicly stated that there will be no CDMA iPhone. That means that when the Verizon iPhone is released Verizon's LTE network will have to be *completely* rolled out and I don't see that happening before 2011 at the earliest. The most likely scenario, is that Apple lets the AT&T exclusivity deal expire in June 2010, adds T-Mobile as a carrier in the fall of 2010, and Verizon in summer 2011 or 2012 when the iPhone 4G (LTE) is released. Sprint never, unless they do a 180 and drop WiMax for LTE -- an extremely doubtful proposition.
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post #13 of 30
6/10/09 at 6:10am

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlo Medina
No doubt true. But since I'm primarily concerned about myself, that's really irrelevant to me.

Seriously I would change carriers except:
1. Family is on AT&T
2. Girlfriend is on AT&T
3. Closest friends I talk to most are on AT&T
4. iPhone is AT&T
5. 15% off of AT&T service due to job

Monetarily it would not make sense to switch because I get free minutes with those I talk to the most and it would be a considerable amount to switch plans, not to mention the loss of the job discount.

PS - Thanks for your sympathy Dave

Carlo, got you beat on #5. My wife's company's employees get 18% off. 1-4 aren't relevent, as we rarely use all our minutes and I'm not interested in an iPhone until I can get one for the same $75 I got my Samsung Blackjack.

On a sie note, the iPhone would impress me more if their app comercials would advertise apps that were truly unique, rather than just another way of doing something you can already do on the internet using a web browser.
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post #14 of 30
6/10/09 at 11:24am

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
Not I. I've never had bad coverage with Verizon. NY through to Indiana, to Tennessee. Los Angeles. Cabo San Lucas. Toronto and Ottawa. Always got "bars". There's someone to hate everything. But customer surveys consistently rank Verizon above AT&T, just as they rank Apple above all the PC makers. I won't tout V as unfallable -- I've had my gripes -- but it's incorrect to just wave away AT&T grumblings as equivalent to the grumbling about the other carriers.

I don't travel much, but I too (and many others I know) do find Verizon's coverage to be substantially better in NYC and surrounding areas. I regularly have easier time getting reception than other folks who use the other carriers. We don't use our phones a whole lot, but we want/need them to work when we do use them (and to have incoming calls reach us more easily/regularly). We don't need all the bells and whistles. We just need them to work -- the bells and whistles are just extras. It's why we stick w/ Verizon.

As for the iPhone itself, I'm fine w/ just using an iPod Touch w/ WiFi access for all the non-phone stuff that interest me. Even if/when Verizon gets the iPhone, I may not bother getting it if they continue to require subscription to a rather expensive data plan.

_Man_
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post #15 of 30
6/14/09 at 8:54am

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

To be fair to AT&T these problems would have happened to any other carrier had Apple signed with. I don't think AT&T (or Apple) ever imagined the strain on the wireless network that the iphone can use.

Things will improve as the network infrastructure improves. Growing pains should be expected.
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post #16 of 30
6/14/09 at 5:55pm

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDfan
To be fair to AT&T these problems would have happened to any other carrier had Apple signed with. I don't think AT&T (or Apple) ever imagined the strain on the wireless network that the iphone can use.

Things will improve as the network infrastructure improves. Growing pains should be expected.
Perhaps the data bandwidth challenges, but I hear many complaints about basic phone connections, dropped calls, etc. Would that be affected by a few more iPhone users?
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post #17 of 30
6/14/09 at 6:45pm

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Must be regional, or maybe an issue with the iPhone antenna design. I've never had any issues with data or phone connections, and I've been with AT&T/Cingular since before the iPhone.
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post #18 of 30
6/14/09 at 8:53pm

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

AT&T sucks. They were a great wireless carrier before being bought out by Cingular. As soon as that happened, their service went to crap.
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post #19 of 30
6/15/09 at 9:24am

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

I think that the badness of AT&T does get exaggerated, and also is very dependent on local conditions.

The most salient question is how good and how soon will AT&T's network improvements be. And if sales of the new iPhones take off, will we have a replay of AT&T's network being brought to its knees after the 3G release last summer.

I agree with both LDFan and DaveF: I am convinced that Verizon's vaunted network would have been brought to its knees too by 10 million iPhones. On the other hand AT&T has handled the situation less than optimally. You just need to spend time in Europe and see what good cell phone services really is like to see how much room for improvement AT&T has.
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post #20 of 30
6/15/09 at 11:20am

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

In an area where I had excellent Verizon service I switched to AT&T because of the iPhone. The coverage is awful. So, it is a choice between the phone and the carrier. Would love to have a choice other than AT&T.
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post #21 of 30
6/18/09 at 7:22am

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Switched back to Verizon yesterday ... using a Blackberry Storm. Far better coverage than AT&T .... no better choice at this point.
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post #22 of 30
6/18/09 at 1:46pm

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Apparently...even the US Senate is starting to tell AT&T to drop dead too...

Senators challenge AT&T?s exclusive iPhone deal | iPhone | iPhone Central | Macworld

Hmmmm..

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post #23 of 30
6/18/09 at 4:59pm

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Congress is talking with "an executive from AT&T, ...Paul Roth, president of retail sales and services for AT&T. "
Quote:
But the senators found it difficult to see why a phone maker wouldn’t prefer to sell to all customers of all the carriers.
Errmmmm...shouldn't Congress then ask the phone maker (Apple) why they wouldn't prefer to sell to customers of all carriers? Why ask AT&T what Apple was thinking, when you can ask Apple directly? But if they're going to do this obtusely, perhaps they should also ask Verizon why they *didn't* want to sell the iPhone to their customers?
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post #24 of 30
6/18/09 at 6:17pm

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Todorov
Just keep in mind that that next corner is most likely 24 months from now. 12 at the earliest, but IMO very unlikely.

Both Verizon and Apple have publicly stated that there will be no CDMA iPhone. That means that when the Verizon iPhone is released Verizon's LTE network will have to be *completely* rolled out and I don't see that happening before 2011 at the earliest. The most likely scenario, is that Apple lets the AT&T exclusivity deal expire in June 2010, adds T-Mobile as a carrier in the fall of 2010, and Verizon in summer 2011 or 2012 when the iPhone 4G (LTE) is released. Sprint never, unless they do a 180 and drop WiMax for LTE -- an extremely doubtful proposition.

Well, for me this has all become a moot issue. It never occurred to me to check before, but I recently checked AT&T's coverage map and found that I live in a great big hole in their 3G coverage - therefore no iPhone for me for a long, long time.

I thought about the Palm Pre with Sprint, but I just can't get into its form factor. I think Verizon has the Samsung Omnia, but I read a lot of negative reviews on that (well, they all get a fair share of negatives). Anyhow, I will just keep my Treo 650 on Earthlink (Sprint network??) until it croaks.
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post #25 of 30
6/22/09 at 7:47am

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Blackberry of your choice on Verizon is a reasonable combination. However, when minus is the lack of active sync on the Storm. Cannot connect to our company's server (Outlook) except through web access.
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post #26 of 30
6/22/09 at 10:38am

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

After upgrading to an iPhone 3GS, reception in my apartment is still spotty, but is markedly better with the iPhone than it was through the Blackberry. In fact my roommate mentioned it when we talked over the weekend. He asked if I was at home, and I said yes, and then he asked if I got the new iPhone. I asked why, and he said "because you're not cutting in and out and you sound a lot clearer."

Still could be a lot better, but hey, I'll take my small victories where I can.
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post #27 of 30
6/22/09 at 3:26pm

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Todorov
I think that the badness of AT&T does get exaggerated, and also is very dependent on local conditions.

The most salient question is how good and how soon will AT&T's network improvements be. And if sales of the new iPhones take off, will we have a replay of AT&T's network being brought to its knees after the 3G release last summer.

I agree with both LDFan and DaveF: I am convinced that Verizon's vaunted network would have been brought to its knees too by 10 million iPhones. On the other hand AT&T has handled the situation less than optimally. You just need to spend time in Europe and see what good cell phone services really is like to see how much room for improvement AT&T has.

I doubt that at least for basic phone service (as DaveF also wondered). How many customers does Verizon already have? And how does that really compare to the number of current iPhone users?

Also, it's not like 100% of iPhone users will suddenly switch to Verizon if they add the iPhone tomorrow. Most of them will probably still wait until their existing contracts run out. And then, some will still stick w/ AT&T for their better rates, especially if coverage is not a problem for them.

Even for data usage, I'm not sure it'll make that much of a blip. Most any Verizon user who wants data service probably already use a device for that -- there are a lot of Blackberries out there afterall. I doubt the iPhone would add quite that much extra usage. The iPhone would likely just replace the existing ones and add a bit more thru extra new customers.

_Man_
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post #28 of 30
6/22/09 at 7:59pm

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

i think there are alot of people like me who are caught in contracts/family plans on verizon or alltel soon to be verizon, that are holding off on any kind of data phone until we can have the iphone. i have a touch and just a normal phone that i've had for the last 2 years and instead of upgrading now, im just gonna make this one last until verizon gets it.
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post #29 of 30
6/22/09 at 8:37pm

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-Fai Wong
How many customers does Verizon already have? And how does that really compare to the number of current iPhone users?
According to Wikipedia, the US subscriber counts are as follows, with Verizon leading both customers and revenue.

Verizon: 86.6M
AT&T: 78.2M
Sprint: 49M
T-Mobile: 32.8M

AT&T has about 1/3 the US wireless market. Unless the majority of would-be iPhone owners ahve switched to AT&T, Apple could increase its customer base by 200% by selling the iPhone on the other carriers.

Obviously, I'm speaking in ignorance. I know nothing about the Byzantine world of cellphone business. But it can't make any sense for Apple to stay web to AT&T forever.
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post #30 of 30
6/26/09 at 8:56pm

Re: Article: Apple to AT&T: Drop Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane D
i think there are alot of people like me who are caught in contracts/family plans on verizon or alltel soon to be verizon, that are holding off on any kind of data phone until we can have the iphone. i have a touch and just a normal phone that i've had for the last 2 years and instead of upgrading now, im just gonna make this one last until verizon gets it.

For me, it's the cost of the required data service that keeps me from getting a smartphone like the Samsung Omnia or a Blackberry since I can't expense it for work like a lot of other people can -- that *might* change soon since my job function has changed some lately and I may become "on-call" for production data issues.

The iPhone hadn't really been *that* great as a data phone anyway -- at least not before v3.0 -- so even if it had been available w/ Verizon, a lot of people would still be using a Blackberry or similar because those fit their business/work needs better.

_Man_
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