TomTom iPhone Dock, anyone? - Page 2

Frugal people buy standalone GPS units because they're affordable. Car-integrated devices are expensive ($1000 - $2000) and only available in a new car; definitely not for the frugal or even "normal" person. They'll continue to buy standalone devices for a while because, being frugal, they avoid premium monthly charges like the iPhone.

You seem to be arguing that broadcast TV will go away because everyone can get cable / satellite, and why would anyone balk at paying an extra $30 - $100 per month? Well, because there's a spectrum of people, some of whom will refrain from buying higher-end services; and there's enough of them to support a low-end, even obsolete, market for a while to come.

So will GPS disappear as standalone units in the next 5 to 50 years? That's a possibility. But I think it's going to be past the 5-year mark.

We have very different views of frugal people I'll concede that the GPS standalone market is doomed; but I think we disagree on the time frame.

Interesting note about the Sirius dock. My car had built-in XM. I subscribed for 6 months. While I enjoyed it, I was annoyed that the subscription was tied to the radio and not to me; so I could only enjoy it during my short commutes and not inside the house or at the gym or etc. And the standalone radios were clunky and seemed silly to mount one in my car when the car has it built in; it seemed doubly silly to double subscribe to listen in multiple locations. An iPhone system might reduce that pain.

Wow.

Gut reaction: knocks every other GPS unit on its rear. And I'm a Garmin owner.

Why? It's priced like a mid / low range unit at $200; much less than top-of-the-line standalone GPS's which are as much as $800.

Given that quality GPS devices cost $150 - $250, I don't understand why iPhone users expect class-beating GPS software and hardware for $0.99.

I assume you don't want to pay for the $29 Snow Leopard upgrade, since that CD and box only have about $0.10 worth of stuff in them?

The price of a product has nothing to do with its cost to manufacture. Its soley its perceived value and what people will pay. I see turn-by-turn directions and a GPS system that rivals even the $700 standalone units. In comparison, that seems not unreasonable for $199. I don't care if that $199 simply buys me the Emperor's New Clothes, so long as it works as promised.

Actually, the TomTom Car Kit for iPhone has its own GPS chipset receiver, designed to work with the performance of the TomTom iPhone application.  It's scheduled to launch in October - you can sign up for all updates on the TomTom iPhone application at http://iphone.tomtom.com.

I do some work with TomTom - the TomTom Car Kit for iPhone actually contains its own GPS chipset receiver, designed to work with the TomTom for iPhone application. You can get any updates about the application from http://iphone.tomtom.com.

Any questions you have, let me know.

Fair enough. The market will decide. If people feel as you, Garmin will drop prices to sell software and hardware.

I guess the question is whether they will translate £99 to $99 in the US. 

I paid $20 for a spare Garmin GPS mount and $18 for a spare car power cable. I previously paid $40-some for an iPod car FM adapter kit. And I also paid $40 for an iPod car-charger. So I'm willing to pay $120 for "piece of crap plastic" accessories for iPod and GPS.

The TomTom dock, for the same price, replaces all that and include a GPS chip, mic & speaker for hands-free phone use, and more flexible mounting scheme particularly with landscape rotation. (OK, maybe I need to keep my FM tuner, so it's a $40 price increment.) This is priced not unreasonably compared to other similar items.

Granted, I'd have to think about it. Since I already have a GPS, this is a big buy for me; a substantial buy for me and the wife. If it was time for a new GPS though, it makes sense against the cost of a new GPS unit.

It will be interesting to see what happens. Will people agree with you: an outrageous $220 for a bit of software and plastic mount? Or do they look at it like me, $220 for a GPS solution that kills the $800 standalone units?

From what I have read I really don't think the TomTom solution for the iPhone competes with $800 GPS units. For example, it doesn't seem to include text to speech. Also, there has been no word from TomTom on what updates will cost. I think you could duplicate or even exceed the GPS functionality of the TomTom iPhone software/dock with a $150-$200 spent on a dedicated GPS and mount.

I think it simply comes down to if you don't mind dealing with another electronic device, a dedicated GPS is probably a better way to go. If you rather not, the TomTom iPhone solution is a reasonable alternative.

Personally, I am leaning towards picking up at least the software for my iPhone and probably also the dock. Although I think I am going to wait until we get word on updates and I see a few more reviews.

-Keith

Do you mean it doesn't do spoken street names? It will do "Turn left in 0.2 miles" instead of "Turn left on Main Street in 0.2 miles"?

I think this was mentioned previously, but DF has an update on app sharing:
http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/09/28/cohen-home-sharing
If the TomTom GPS software abides by this, it suggest an interesting effective decrease in cost. Instead of paying $150 - $250 for a single GPS shared by my wife and I, I pay $99 for GPS software we can both use. And maybe I pay $120 for the dock to share between us.

The devil is in the details. Does this software really work as well (or better) than the typical $200 Garmin or TomTom (e.g. spoken street names)? Does it work adequately without the GPS-enhanced dock? Will the family app sharing continue for high-end apps? And whether you're buying for just yourself or additionally other family / household members.

 I'm really surprised the TomTom iPhone app doesn't have automatic day/night mode. Even my cheapo standalone TomTom 130S has that.

Interesting article.

He writes that $120 is outrageous for a mount when you can buy a standalone GPS for that much. And then he comments on how he'll continue to use his Garmin 765T. The Garmin 765T is a $450 GPS! (on clearance now for $350) How do you critique a $220 GPS solution as being unreasonably priced while owning device that costs double that?

If the TomTom iPhone app and holder were best of breed, as good as a $450 Garmin, why would you get hung up on perceived manufacturing costs and expect it to cost 75% less? This view of pricing per se is incoherent.


That said, my comments and interest were based on the assumption that the TomTom iPhone system would be, if not best of breed, at least as good as a typical $200 GPS unit, plus would have the superior touch-screen of the iPhone. (The touchscreen interface of the GPS's I've used are clunky, and especially hard to move and zoom in map mode.)

But GPS software that is decidedly inferior to even a $150 standalone unit, lacking Nightime mode and spoken streetnames, is a nonstarter. It could be free and I'd still pay money for a kit that has those features. So if the TomTom system is this poor, their pricing is ridiculous and it will fail and soon.

 Looks like Sam is winning the price argument.  Google announced that turn by turn GPS will be included in Android 2.0 for the price of free and they are working on an iPhone version as well.

Wins my argument too: bye, bye dedicated GPS units.  It was nice knowing you.

The only catch is that the Google maps are stored in the cloud, not on the device, but unlike other similar services, the google app will cache locally all maps related to your trip in advance (when you initially program your trip), thus avoiding dead zone problems along the way.

I still like the all maps stored locally idea better, but the Google argument is that this way maps are guaranteed up-to-date.  As time goes on and cell networks improve, I guess they will win that argument.

The dedicated GPS makers are toast.

 From Gruber: Garmin, TomTom Shares Sink On New Google Navigation Feature ★

Ben Charny, reporting for the WSJ on the aftermath of Google’s announcement of maps navigation in Android 2.0:

The move sent shares of the top two navigation device makers reeling. Shares of Garmin fell 17.2% to $31.88 on very heavy trading, foiling any lift shares would have seen from an upgrade Wednesday from Goldman Sachs, which raised its Garmin rating to sell from conviction sell.

A Garmin spokesman wasn’t immediately available for comment.

Meanwhile, TomTom N.V. shares fell more than 20% to €8.11, a new 52-week low. The company also warned Wednesday that selling prices were 9% lower than it had forecast.

A TomTom spokesman was unavailable for comment.

I’ve gotten a bunch of emails from readers objecting to my earlier comment that the end is near for dedicated GPS devices. The biggest objection is that the dedicated devices store all the map data locally. That’s great, and I’m sure it’s essential for some people. But the writing is on the wall. Google is entering the field. Their service is going to be free. It is going to improve constantly. Soon enough, Google’s service will be both free and superior. Garmin and TomTom are toast.

This is very interesting. I have scattered thoughts / questions.

* Is map-in-the-cloud sufficient, given the chronic complaints of AT&T service in metro areas? The idea of driving along a busy street and running out of map data doesn't sound far-fetched to me in this scenario. I'm still more comfortable with locally-stored map data (that can be updated). For now.

* It seems it has no audio, much less spoken street names. After having that, in my $150 GPS, there's no going back. But this is certainly good enough for many people. But is this the end or the beginning of this type GPS?

* What is GPS ownership compared to smart-phone with data-plan phones? Dedicated GPS units will decline. But what's the timeline? Next year? Five years? Ten years? And will they totally go away? 

* There's no need for dedicated MP3 player; every phone out there does it, and has for years, yet iPods still sell like gangbusters. "Free" does not always win if it's not substantially better. Is this GPS solution better in enough right ways?

So, interesting. This is good enough for a lot of people, I'm sure. It's not a happy time to be aa GPS maker. But will Google make it good enough to completely put out of business the dedicated GPS companies?

Just to address those two points -- map in the cloud -- from what I understand all maps needed for you entire trip will be pre-loaded, so it should only come into play if you change your destination or take an unplanned detour.

iPods still being sold -- Classics are still being sold because of the larger HD capacity.  As soon as flash catches up -- say hits 256GB (if not just 128GB) -- the Classic is gone.  Nano & Shuffle -- lower price and smaller form factor.  Neither one of these apply in your GPS parallel as Google is both cheaper (free) and smaller than dedicated GPS units.  

But what about the price of the iPhone or GPS equipped iPod Touch or other brand equivalent?  Everyone has a cell phone now.  In 2 to 5 years everyone will have a GPS equipped networked handled computer (aka iPhone, etc.) instead of a regular phone.  Even in lower income situations, where the handheld computer will be used for all computing needs.

What makes the iPhone hard to afford right now isn't the price ($99 is marginally more than a shuffle), but the difference between a voice plan & a voice + data plan.  When all phones become smartphones that difference will disappear, likely in the other direction -- everyone will have a data plan only with voice being recognized for just one type of data.  

Dedicated devices, other than ones that require large space for high quality (think pro cameras) will die.  The only question is how few years down the line.  In the case of GPS, Google just shortened their lifespan considerably.

Edit: If anyone thinks dedicated devices have a future, please find me a word processor or typewriter.  Calculators and tape recorders are all but dead.  CD players are basically dead.  Stand alone DVD/BD players mostly exist due DRM making their computer app versions cumbersome.
Edited by Ted Todorov - 10/28/09 at 3:04pm