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The Prisoner ... on Blu-ray - Page 4

post #91 of 127
11/9/09 at 8:47am
I admit that some of the episodes before the two-part finale aren't as good as the early episodes, but there's still a bit of playfulness: "The Girl Who was Death" is delightfully cheeky, an intentionally silly episode that gives a breather before the heady final episodes. "Living in Harmony" is fantastic, not only for the Westernized version of the show's opening credits (without actual credits until the episode title), but the fact that it's a British interpretation of an American genre (I love many film Westerns, but I've never found any TV Westerns to hold my interest, with the exception of Maverick). "Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling" is a good try, but it's a dud without McGoohan's presence and mind transference seems a bit too silly a sci-fi concept for The Prisoner (granted there are roaring, "living" balloons, but still...). I think "Once Upon a Time" is a great stage-like episode, with amazing performances from McGoohan and McKern, as they play off each other with rapid-fire delivery.

Series finales are difficult because writers want to go out with a bang, the cast wants something memorable for their characters and viewers want satisfaction after investing potentially numerous years watching a series. "Fall Out" is unusual and challenging, but I don't think it discredits the rest of the series. It's absurd, but thoughtful, allowing the viewer to interpret the ending and it's provocative--look at some the reactions here in this thread--some might feel emotionally cheated, but if you consider the finale after repeated viewings, you might find it intellectually rewarding.
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post #92 of 127
11/9/09 at 10:07am

Well said, JoshuaB.

Based on the numerous Prisoner books I've read, the ending we see in "Fall Out" is the ending Patrick McGoohan wanted.  However, once the decision was made to end the series with just 17 episodes, McGoohan basically wrote the entire script in about 48 hours, so it didn't go through as many edits and re-writes as the other episodes.

 

I have watched the series numerous times over the years, and I always find Fall Out the perfect ending to this incredible series.  And it gets better every time I watch it.

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post #93 of 127
11/9/09 at 12:35pm
"The Girl Who was Death" had me wondering where it was going up until the final scene. The fact there are children living in the Village raises all sorts of unsettling questions though.

The first time I saw "Living in Harmony", I was wondering if it was an actual Prisoner episode at all until the climax. Is it true CBS was too nervous to air this episode in the U.S. back in the day?
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post #94 of 127
11/15/09 at 9:24pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by RickER View Post

 LOL

Told you so Ron. But i didnt want to ruin it for you.

You need to watch it again, its not as bad as you might initially think. Lots of clues in that acid trip. Have you ever noticed the number on the front door to his flat, his REAL flat in London?
I cant remember if its in the last episode, or a deleted scene, but after he returns home, his door opens by itself.
Just like it did in the village.

"Who is #1?"
"You are # 6."
 

And who's on first.

So how about some of you guys who find the last episode to be brilliant or even just very good, can you say why, and offer an interpretation of that last episode.

I just thought it was ridiculous.
Going to mention plot points from the last show so don't read if you haven't seen yet.


All the dancing and singing, then Just driving right away from the village in that caged apartment,
bringing Number 2 back to life.

It was more like a Benny Hill episode at the end.

Sure I saw who was under that hood and His door at his "real" house opened by itself.
so did we need an entire show of all that slapstick with the real door and the 2 seconds of the face under the hood just barely squeezed in.

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post #95 of 127
11/16/09 at 10:58am
Thread Starter 

There's a lot of material out there on this, but if you realize that the "Once Upon a Time" episode was actually to be the planned end of Season 1, and "Fall Out" was almost added as a coda when the series was cancelled, it was inevitable that McGoohan had to take a wild and allegorical approach to capping the series. I agree with the interpretation that the series was always an allegory about the character (or McGoohan) wrestling with questions of ego and identity through the device of a "prisoner" in the "village." 

If you pursue it, there are very detailed interpretations out there, but sometimes the best art engages the observer's collaboration in unexpected ways. I remember first seeing "A Clockwork Orange" in the theatre opening day and half the audience stormed out in disgust and the other sat there in stunned awe at its brilliance. Put me in the latter camp ... on that film and this series. If I don't want to think, there's plenty of shows to fill that vacuum.

Comments from imdb ...
us.imdb.com/title/tt0679178/usercomments

Interview with McGoohan
www.cultv.co.uk/mcgoohan.htm

Theory by a guy who thinks way too much.
prisoner.gigacorp.net/fallout.html

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post #96 of 127
11/17/09 at 8:14am
Prisoner blu-ray is $34.99 with discount code N4V24RVDNH on DeepDiscount.

from:

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=3744
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post #97 of 127
11/17/09 at 9:50am
Even better, it's actually $34.98 (one cent less)

Also, if you go through bing.com, 4% cashback.
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post #98 of 127
2/8/10 at 6:48pm
I see that Amazon has pulled this set.

I bought it through their marketplace and am just reaching the end of disc one, however I must say that the audio is not as good as the reviews seem to indicate. The 5.1 track has a constant phasing running through it, it's moderately subtle, but not near as clean as reported. I'm also seeing a lot of brief jumps in the video, although I'm watching at 1080i which may or may not be the cause.
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post #99 of 127
2/8/10 at 7:02pm
I just bought the set a little over a week ago from Amazon.com (for under $40 shipped, less than they were charging for the DVD set.)  So far I've only had a chance to watch two episodes, and I don't see any problems.  I'll have to go through the rest of the set quickly so I can exchange it if necessary.  I hope there's nothing wrong, because so far the set is gorgeous, it is almost like seeing the show again for the first time.  This is only my second TV release on Blu-Ray (the first was the 1995 BBC production of Pride and Prejudice) and I've just been blown away by the quality of both.  

Regards,

Joe
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post #100 of 127
2/8/10 at 7:05pm
After a bit more research, the problem noted at Amazon is with disc 5 (a regular DVD) not playing on many players.

I am seeing the show for the first time.
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post #101 of 127
3/6/10 at 12:55pm
Thought I'd bump this thread.

I just spent the last week and a half watching the Blu Ray set in a semi daily fashion so it was one long viewing.

I know the show and how it ends, i saw in the 80's for the first time. But I didn't really get into the individual episodes because my mind wasn't receptive to this series then. I knew it was innovative and there was something really cool about it.

So this time, it was like watching it the first time. I enjoyed each episode and really got into it! Yes, Once Upon A Time is a bit tedious, for me anyway. And I want to see it again. At one point, I know that Number 6 turns it around and cracks Number 2! And I wanted to see that part again. The dialogue is fast and furious and having the subtitles on helps. And Fall Out is just as crazy as ever. But good fun allegory. The answers, McGoohan spells it out for you. It's not totally up to you. But he leaves enough clues there. Of course, many have other theories.

I'm curious Ron if after the past few months, you've changed your point of view. You were very disappointed after seeing the end.
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post #102 of 127
3/6/10 at 1:35pm

Quote:
I'm curious Ron if after the past few months, you've changed your point of view. You were very disappointed after seeing the end.


More like devastated.

No.  Have not changed my point of view.

The show was one of the best I had ever seen, that is, up until
the final two or three episodes.

Have no urge to ever watch those final episodes again.
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post #103 of 127
3/6/10 at 2:50pm
Hi Ron,

Well, I understand how you feel. It started off with a terrific premise and a great mystery. Who are these people, where is the Village and what did they want?

It ended with something totally different, but in an abstract sort of way. It wasn't a straight forward ending. And that was cool!

Maybe in time, you might change your mind and have another look.

PS: Forgot to mention, I compared the new Blu Rays to the 2000-2001 DVD set release I have, didn't get the 2007 remastered set.. What a huge difference in quality! The old DVD is dark!

Edited by Nelson Au - 3/6/10 at 3:39pm
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post #104 of 127
3/6/10 at 4:31pm
I just want an explanation of the final episode
and not someone giving me the "high and mighty"
approach that if I wasn't intellectual enough to
"get it" then it's not worth explaining.
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post #105 of 127
3/6/10 at 8:10pm

Quote:
not someone giving me the "high and mighty"
approach that if I wasn't intellectual enough to
"get it" then it's not worth explaining.

My understanding is the opposite, Ron. McGoohan has said in an interview some years ago that he didn't want to insult the audience's intelligence. He didn't want to pander. And he wanted to avoid the conventional answer. And you take from it what you make of it.

So, if you want to bother to look, my interpretation is this, and I think it's the average answer:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Number 6 is Number 1.

His flat's front door number is 1.

Number Two answers Number 6's question, "Who is Number 1?". "YOU ARE, Number 6." 

In the end, he never really escapes. His flat's front door automatically opens like it does in The Village. In the end credits, the main 3 actors are given screen credit, except McGoohan. In the long shot you see him driving his Lotus and he is credited as "prisoner".

London, or our society, is the prison. The location of the Village appears very close to London, but was earlier thought to be near Spain or Africa. So you don't really know where it is.

The ape mask is symbolic of "aping" or copying. He didn't want Number 1 to be who you expected, just like all the other villains you see on spy shows.

And the end credits starts with the same shot of the opening credits, it suggests that the Prisoner's fight starts all over again, or just continues.

So in the end, McGoohan expanded the premise from the spy world that was the original intention of his co-creator of the show, to encompass our society. 

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post #106 of 127
3/6/10 at 9:37pm
 I think it says a lot that the last few episodes didnt have the (Producer i think) George Markstein (sp). If i recall right, he and McGoohan didnt see eye to eye on how to end it, so Markstein left.
It was either him or the story editor who left. Its midnight, and i dont feel like looking it up. You can say McGoohan had a vision, but i think he lost his way toward the end.
While i do not really care for the last episode, what can you do, its what we got.

I agree with your spoiler Nelson, and thats how i see it too.
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post #107 of 127
3/7/10 at 12:28am
I have to admit that I share Ronald's view on the last episode. I had never watched the series before or any of the episodes before until I recently purchased/ordered Comcast Digital and was able to watch the entire series straight through, without commercial interruption, on Comcast On-Demand.

The series was easy to follow until I got to the very last episode. The director didn't bother to explain how Number 2 got to that episode and I keep hearing everyone explain the last episode as being too intellectual. To this day, I cannot even understand that final episode. It was like the director and producer for the series threw everything out of the window.

What's sad is that I really liked the series up until that last episode. It was just too painful to watch and it was like they produced the episode without a valid script with everyone making up the dialogue as they went along.
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post #108 of 127
3/7/10 at 4:52am
Nelson,

Thank you so much for providing an answer that so many
would not.  It is the best interpretation of that show's ending
that I have read to date.


Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:


Now this is interesting.  In the opening credits of each
show McGoohan asks Number Two, "Who is Number 1?"

He is always replied, "YOU ARE, Number 6."

Could we have been given the answer all along since the
first episode?  Was it just a simple matter of putting a pause
somewhere in that answer so that Number Two's reply meant

 


Number Two answers Number 6's question, "Who is Number 1?". "YOU ARE, Number 6."

something totally different?

If so, that's pretty ingenious. 

...and Jaref, welcome to the club!

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post #109 of 127
3/7/10 at 4:54am
 Nelson,

Thank you so much for providing an answer that so many
would not.  It is the best interpretation of that show's ending
that I have read to date.


Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Number Two answers Number 6's question, "Who is Number 1?". "YOU ARE, Number 6."



Now this is interesting.  In the opening credits of each 
show McGoohan asks Number Two, "Who is Number 1?"

He is always replied, "YOU ARE, Number 6."

Could we have been given the answer all along since the
first episode?  Was it just a simple matter of putting a pause
somewhere in that answer so that Number Two's reply meant
something totally different?

 

If this is so, then that is pretty ingenious and the viewing
audience was effectively fooled each night.

....and Jaref, welcome to the club!
 
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post #110 of 127
3/7/10 at 7:36am

I love the Prisoner but I was also disappointed by the final 2 episodes.  The ingenuity of the series for me resided in the fact that every episode could be interpreted literally (a man taken prisoner in a physical location unknown) and allegorically (man vs. society, etc.).  The fundamental flaw in the last 2 episodes is that the subject matter was so "far out" that it was great allegory but too far into the realm of fantasy to be taken literally anymore.

I think Nelson's analysis is spot on and consistent with comments made by McGoohan in interviews.

 

 

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post #111 of 127
3/7/10 at 9:54am
Ron, 

I'm glad to have helped. I didn't realize that no one had explained it to you. I guess we all didn't want to spoil it for you.

Upon this recent viewing of Fall Out, there is a few things that kept going through my mind as I watched it. What do you guys think?

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
1. It is so absurd, i think McG intended it to be way over the top. And one reason that occurred to me was that it was still a ploy that the Village was using to break him. McG was going for imagery that was so fantastic, the robed figures and masks and the bizarre cave setting, it could all be another drug induced situation set-up to get Number 6 to crack. All part of Degree Absolute. He was having a drink with Number 2 right at the end of Once Upon A Time and it could have been drugged.

2. It looked like You Only Live Twice. During the climax of that James Bond film, it takes place inside the Volcano. Perhaps McG was using that imagery to parody Bond and the absurdity of that film's ending. McG was doing the same thing, there was a huge gun fight in the end, there is a missile Blofeld is about to launch and Number 6 does launch the Number 1 missile, with Number 1 still inside it.

3. Did Number 2 really die? I think it was drug induced as well to look like he died. In the end, he re-enters Society as part of the British government. He's part of the Establishment again. Or did he really leave it?

4. Number 48, represents the youth and counter culture of the 1960's. This is the time of Sgt. Pepper, flower power and recreational drugs and free love. He represents the most rebellious aspects of our society. He was hitch hiking at the end, where did he go?

5. I'm not sure the significance of Dem Bones. I think McG was very religious and it may have to do with a Bible passage. Perhaps Resurrection? 

6. He does escape the Village at the end. Was it part of the plan of whoever is in charge of the Village? In the Chimes of Big Ben, when he thinks he's escaped, he's in the office of people he knows. His old bosses? Turns out they were in on the plan to find out why he resigned. So is the British Government in on it too? During that same episode early on, Number 2 and Number 6 talk about which side runs the Village. Number 2 says it doesn't really matter, eventually it will be all the same, all one thing. Number 6 replies, the whole Earth, one big Village? Number 2 replies, that is his hope. Who is Number 1, Number 6 asks, Number 2 replies, doesn't matter. Forgot to add, this Number 2 in The Chimes of Big Ben is the same Number 2 brought back for Once Upon A Time and Fall Out.
This is the kind of cool stuff that you discover upon repeat viewings. After you've seen the entire series. It's like Lost, you can really get into the details and make note of certain dialogue passages and analyze it to death!
Edited by Nelson Au - 3/7/10 at 10:46am
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post #112 of 127
3/7/10 at 1:02pm
The non-conformist, surreal and otherworldly aspects of the finale, both in content and style, have certainly influenced other series finales that came in its wake, from M*A*S*H to LIFE ON MARS.

The fact that it continues to yield such erudite interpretations and analysis over 40 years later is a testament to its profound inspiration for thinking beyond the conventional, something that should be celebrated in any art, let alone the medium of television.

It's not always about finding answers, it's about asking questions.
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post #113 of 127
3/8/10 at 5:15am
While I would agree with Nelson's excellent assessment of the ending, I would also add that, thematically, one of the main points of the show is that

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
we make our own prisons.
I was not disappointed in the ending. I admit I haven't watched it in about 6 or 7 years, but I recall being very excited when I first saw it.
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post #114 of 127
3/8/10 at 10:01am
Sam, I agree. The show can be interpreted in a few ways and everyone has their own views.

I was just corresponding with a friend whose a real Prisoner fan and has analyzed the series for years. He gave me his own episode order. He's ordered the episodes in a way that shows Number 6's progression in The Village. Possible spoiler:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
And I can see why he did it that way, going from Number 6 being helpless to the one who is in control at the end.
If anyone is interested, I can post the episode order.
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post #115 of 127
3/8/10 at 10:27am
Nelson go ahead.
I've been to a few web sites devoted to this show and every where I've checked has a very similar interpretation of the ending of the series.

Having it all spelled out that way helps make the last 2 shows more clear.
I will never agree that the last 2 shows were anything but ridiculous and nearly incomprehensible, and many years of study were needed before anyone could figure out the last show.


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post #116 of 127
3/8/10 at 11:26am
Okay,

Here's my friend's episode order:
1) Arrival
2) Dance of the Dead
3) Checkmate
4) The Chimes of Big Ben
5) Free For All
6) Many Happy Returns
7) The Schizoid Man 
8) It’s Your Funeral
9) The General
10) A.B. and C.
11) Do Not Forsake Me, Oh My Darling
12) Living in Harmony
13) A Change of Mind
14) Hammer Into Anvil
15) The Girl Who Was Death
16) Once Upon a Time
17) Fall Out

It's pretty close to the order of some other lists, he switches a few in the middle because one other number 2 appears twice and the order makes more sense this way, as well as show Number 6's progression and his character's growth.
 
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post #117 of 127
3/12/10 at 10:05am
I just finished the series for the first time (well, 3/4... I'd usually be asleep by the end). I'll have to rewatch it when I can do so earlier in the evening.

Has anyone found a resolution to disc 5 being defective? The disc loads on my BR player, but trying to play any of the features just stops the disc. It's far too late to try and return it.
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post #118 of 127
3/12/10 at 12:43pm
Thread Starter 
I think earlier in this thread we discussed the fact that the extras DVD is a data disc and doesn't play in some systems. It wouldn't play on my LG390 BD, but it did play on my PS3. And I assume it might play on a PC. But I don't know about any exchange programs or replacement discs available through A&E.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Ulmer View Post

I just finished the series for the first time (well, 3/4... I'd usually be asleep by the end). I'll have to rewatch it when I can do so earlier in the evening.

Has anyone found a resolution to disc 5 being defective? The disc loads on my BR player, but trying to play any of the features just stops the disc. It's far too late to try and return it.
 


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post #119 of 127
3/12/10 at 8:02pm
Disc 5 plays on my Sony BD player. A really good hour long documentary on the making of the series with actors, writers, and vintage photos and on-set home movies. Though I was hoping there would be more extras, I think that 's it!
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post #120 of 127
3/15/10 at 2:43pm
I don't think this question of Nelson's needs to be spoilerized, since it refers to something used on-screen that lots of people would naturally wonder about:


Quote:
5. I'm not sure the significance of Dem Bones. I think McG was very religious and it may have to do with a Bible passage. Perhaps Resurrection?  

"Dem Bones" or "Dry Bones" is a traditional spiritual whose chorus

"Them bones, them bones, them dry bones. Them bones, them bones, them dry bones.
Now hear the word of the Lord."

This definitely derives from the Bible, although not from anything in the New Testament.  The lyric derives from the book of Ezekial, chapter 37, verses 1 through 14, to be exact.  The account of Ezekial's vision of the valley of the dry bones, and their ressurection begins with these lines, which are reflected in the song:

Quote:
 
The Valley of Dry Bones

 1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the LORD and set me in the middle of a valley; it was full of bones. 2 He led me back and forth among them, and I saw a great many bones on the floor of the valley, bones that were very dry. 3 He asked me, "Son of man, can these bones live?" 

      I said, "O Sovereign LORD, you alone know."


 4 Then he said to me, "Prophesy to these bones and say to them, 'Dry bones, hear the word of the LORD! 5 This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath [a] enter you, and you will come to life. 6 I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.' "  


McGoohan was a very devout Catholic, I believe he considered the priesthood and may have studied for it, briefly.  He almost certainly  knew Ezekial well, as the book is widely interpeted as prefiguring the ministry, death and resurrection of Jesus.  (Jesus frequently refers to himself as the "son of man" in the Gospels, for instance.)  McGoohan, who was married to the same woman from young adulthood until his death, twice turned down the role of James Bond because he thought that the character's casual womanizing and casual killing were both immoral.  So yeah, I think McGoohan was doing something with religious symbolism here, but I'm not sure I'm ready to guess what.   

Regards,

Joe
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