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A few words about...™ Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned... -- in Blu-ray - Page 2

post #31 of 56
6/9/09 at 10:13am
Thread Starter 

Re: A few words about...™ Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned... -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Steinberg
RAH - forgive me for asking, because I don't mean to sound doubtful, but does "2001" really need restoration work? I ask because it's my favorite film of all time, period, and I'd hate to see anything bad happen to it. That said, I saw it in 70mm as recently as 2003 and in 35mm as recently as last year, both were fairly new prints and looked about as close to pristine as you can get. The current DVD and Blu-ray releases look pretty good to my eye as well. Is the negative really in trouble?

2001 is in no danger. Damage to the OCN that occurred over the past 40 years can now be upgraded, dirt can be digitally removed. But there is plenty of redundancy of elements. The film isn't going anywhere.

RAH
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post #32 of 56
6/9/09 at 11:21am

Re: A few words about...™ Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned... -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris
2001 is in no danger. Damage to the OCN that occurred over the past 40 years can now be upgraded, dirt can be digitally removed. But there is plenty of redundancy of elements. The film isn't going anywhere.

RAH

Phew... that's what I thought but thanks for confirming. I have to say, when I saw it for the first time in 70mm during it's 2001-2002 run (I had previously only seen it in 35mm), I was completely blown away. I mean, I expected to be, but it exceeded even that expectation. The print was surprisingly dirt and scratch free. The only clue that it wasn't a brand new film was the Pan Am logos visible throughout.
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post #33 of 56
6/9/09 at 12:59pm

Re: A few words about...™ Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned... -- in Blu-ray

If I remember correctly, the score during that B-52 'copulation' scene (in Strangelove) is "Try a Little Tenderness".


Cees
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post #34 of 56
6/9/09 at 2:00pm

Re: A few words about...™ Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned... -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob LoVerde
If I may take the question one step further, do you think that, say, "2001: A Space Odyssey" or "A Clockwork Orange" would have benefited from the treatment given Dr. Strangelove or do they not need that due to being more recent motion pictures? I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris
2001, yes, but I don't know if the results would necessarily show up in low-rez. ACO, doubtful.

I'd heard complaints about the Blu-Ray of ACO; apparently there are some color differences from previous, Kubrick-approved transfers. Rob's given it a good notice on this forum, however.

Still, I have high hopes that they'll do a Harris-level job on _Barry Lyndon_, whevere they decide to put that one out on Blu.
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post #35 of 56
6/19/09 at 4:35pm

Re: A few words about...™ Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned... -- in Blu-ray

BRAVO Sony.....

I just watched this and I know this phrase is used too often with BD ...."this is the best the film has ever looked" ... but it is true

Gone from the 2001 Kubrick Collection dvd (and likely subsequent dvds) are the annoying and frequent dirt/debris flaws that plague that presentation

a must own for fans of the movie and fans of great cinema alike
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post #36 of 56
6/20/09 at 10:48am

Re: A few words about...™ Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned... -- in Blu-ray

I am disappointed that the cut 'pie fight' was not included on this disc.
Before anybody steps in and says it's lost, I saw the footage in 35mm at the BFI last year.
I don't know if Sony are aware of this.
Did the Kubrick Estate say they didn't want it to be seen?
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post #37 of 56
6/20/09 at 11:34am

Re: A few words about...™ Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned... -- in Blu-ray

yep, I too am still disappointed that footage has not seen its way to home video
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post #38 of 56
6/20/09 at 7:26pm

Re: A few words about...™ Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned... -- in Blu-ray

Robert, could you comment about how Kubrick achieved the look of Dr. Strangelove. So many shots are gritty and not robustly detailed. The airbase battle scenes that look like newsreel footage would be an example of what I'm on about. Most of the film looks as if it was shot so as to mute detail atleast some to me. Have you any thoughts for this teenage fallout queen....?
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post #39 of 56
6/20/09 at 10:24pm

Re: A few words about...™ Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned... -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen PI
I am disappointed that the cut 'pie fight' was not included on this disc.
Before anybody steps in and says it's lost, I saw the footage in 35mm at the BFI last year.
I don't know if Sony are aware of this.
Did the Kubrick Estate say they didn't want it to be seen?

The booklet insert refers to it as "lost footage" so presumably Sony doesn't know it exists. Kubrick himself cut the scene, saying that "it was too farcical and not consistent with the satirical tone of the rest of the film."
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post #40 of 56
6/21/09 at 9:02am

Re: A few words about...™ Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned... -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen PI
I am disappointed that the cut 'pie fight' was not included on this disc.
Before anybody steps in and says it's lost, I saw the footage in 35mm at the BFI last year.
I don't know if Sony are aware of this.
Did the Kubrick Estate say they didn't want it to be seen?
You saw the footage? How was it?
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post #41 of 56
6/22/09 at 6:02am
Thread Starter 

Re: A few words about...™ Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned... -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Gallagher
The booklet insert refers to it as "lost footage" so presumably Sony doesn't know it exists. Kubrick himself cut the scene, saying that "it was too farcical and not consistent with the satirical tone of the rest of the film."

The footage certainly exists. I asked the film's editor, Anthony Harvey, about the original ending, and was told that the footage was in place, but was removed after the Kennedy assassination, which occurred only eight weeks before release. It's interesting how many films either in production or about to go into release were affected by the tragedy.

The actual lift stayed with Mr. Harvey for several years, and when he came upon it amongst his things, he returned it to SK.

I'm told that the studio has made efforts to add it to this, and earlier DVD releases, but apparently for whatever reason is has not been made available to them.
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post #42 of 56
6/22/09 at 6:07am
Thread Starter 

Re: A few words about...™ Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned... -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael B
Robert, could you comment about how Kubrick achieved the look of Dr. Strangelove. So many shots are gritty and not robustly detailed. The airbase battle scenes that look like newsreel footage would be an example of what I'm on about. Most of the film looks as if it was shot so as to mute detail atleast some to me. Have you any thoughts for this teenage fallout queen....?

It is probable that neither Mr. Kubrick nor cinematographer Gilbert Taylor, currently 95 years old, achieved anything with the footage. But rather, it is what it is.

Since the original negative does not survive, what we see was created from the finest extant film elements, inclusive of a not terribly well made fine grain master. "Gritty and not robustly detailed" in this case may well simply mean "dupey."

RAH
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post #43 of 56
6/22/09 at 8:18am

Re: A few words about...™ Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned... -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael B
Robert, could you comment about how Kubrick achieved the look of Dr. Strangelove. So many shots are gritty and not robustly detailed. The airbase battle scenes that look like newsreel footage would be an example of what I'm on about. Most of the film looks as if it was shot so as to mute detail atleast some to me. Have you any thoughts for this teenage fallout queen....?

Alexander Walker's book _Stanley Kubrick Directs_ says that Kubrick used "othochromatic" stock to give the battle footage a documentary, shot-in-battle texture. I can't say whether Walker got the tech detail correct or not, but that's all I know.
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post #44 of 56
6/22/09 at 11:51am

Re: A few words about...™ Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned... -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris
It is probable that neither Mr. Kubrick nor cinematographer Gilbert Taylor, currently 95 years old, achieved anything with the footage. But rather, it is what it is.

Since the original negative does not survive, what we see was created from the finest extant film elements, inclusive of a not terribly well made fine grain master. "Gritty and not robustly detailed" in this case may well simply mean "dupey."

RAH

Thanks Robert and Brian too! I feel so extanted! You taught me a new, to me, word this week Robert, I feel like a human Extantanista. I quess it's part dupey and part style.....this Strangelove. It sounds as if this also might be your fav movie...? Now, don't throw pies at me but if you do, I like coconut creame.
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post #45 of 56
6/22/09 at 6:10pm

Re: A few words about...™ Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned... -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris
The footage certainly exists. I asked the film's editor, Anthony Harvey, about the original ending, and was told that the footage was in place, but was removed after the Kennedy assassination, which occurred only eight weeks before release. It's interesting how many films either in production or about to go into release were affected by the tragedy...

Wasn't a line of dialogue spoken by Slim Pickens also ADRed due to the assasination? I seem to recall reading that when Pickens goes over the items in each soldiers survival pack, he originally said something like, "A fellow could have a fun weekend in Dallas with all that", but the city was changed in ADR following the JFK assasination.

A lot of films were altered after Columbine, too. SCREAM 3 had its violence toned back considerably, and I think even the plotline may have been changed from what was originally intended. I remember that Kevin Smith got some worried calls from Miramax around this time, too, as we were mixing DOGMA at Skywalker Sound for its Cannes screening when Columbine occured, and some of the violence in that film was suddenly an issue (i.e., Loki shooting up the boardroom). Kevin didn't cut anything at that point, but it was definitely suddenly on the Miramax executives' minds.

Vincent
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post #46 of 56
6/22/09 at 6:30pm

Re: A few words about...™ Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned... -- in Blu-ray

Vincent, I think you could have a big weekend in Vegas with a copy of the Strangelove BD.
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post #47 of 56
6/23/09 at 9:03am

Re: A few words about...™ Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned... -- in Blu-ray

The release of The Quiet American (with Michael Caine and Brendan Fraser) was delayed owing to the attacks on 9/11 as the studio did not want to market a film suggesting a US government conspiracy to stage an attack and blame a despised enemy on the heels of the attacks on NYC.

Films and other forms of pop culture are not immune from the pressures of current events.
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post #48 of 56
7/19/09 at 3:59pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon McMurphy View Post

The previous 2-disc SD transfer was far too dark, as the DVD Beaver comparison reveals. The BD may be a little too bright when viewed on my PC monitor when compared to my plasma TV which often seem to be the case. The cropping/framing on the BD is better. The original mono soundtrack really ought to have been uncompressed, though. Otherwise, this is marvelous work from Sony.

Wow, that 2004 release looks really bad.  As you said, it's indeed way too dark and the framing looks wrong.  I just finished watching the BD and thought it looked great. 

It's interesting how this film just gets better every time you watch it.

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post #49 of 56
11/28/09 at 2:28am
Was this ever screened in cinemas with the shifting aspect ratio, or was that just created for home video releases?
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post #50 of 56
11/28/09 at 5:48am
Thread Starter 


Quote:
Originally Posted by iDarren View Post

Was this ever screened in cinemas with the shifting aspect ratio, or was that just created for home video releases?
The use of the word "ever" comes into play here.  The OCN had varying aspect ratios as it was shot with more than one camera.  Same situation with Lolita.  To add a widescreen matte, the lab must go to an optical dupe, which is not a good way to go.

So, ever?  Probably.

However, the film was designed to be to run with a proper aperture plate in projection, and with the image properly centered.

RAH

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post #51 of 56
12/4/09 at 7:15pm
The restoration and picture quality for Strangelove is fantastic. I think the only person who had the audacity to criticize this amazing release is the ever-annoying Jeffrey Wells of Hollywood Elsewhere. I wish someone would have a talk with this guy and explain that grain is not the enemy. The guy could wind up doing a lot of harm to catalogue titles with his oblivious anti-grain crusades. 

Jeffrey's review: http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2009/06/beware_of_stran.php
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post #52 of 56
12/5/09 at 2:57pm
Wow, that was a great laugh . You should check out his review of The Third Man too, it's even more hilarious.

And Dr. Strangelove didn't even struck me as obtrusively grainy to me? I've seen titles with much more grain. In any way, Mr. Wells should be happy he held onto the 2001 dvd, if not for the much less visible grain then for the alternating ratio.
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post #53 of 56
12/5/09 at 6:37pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris View Post

The footage certainly exists. I asked the film's editor, Anthony Harvey, about the original ending, and was told that the footage was in place, but was removed after the Kennedy assassination, which occurred only eight weeks before release. It's interesting how many films either in production or about to go into release were affected by the tragedy.
That would be a very interesting thread: "Films Changed Because of Current Events Prior to Release."  Well that's a clumsy thread title, but you get the idea.
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post #54 of 56
12/7/09 at 8:39am
 A film release that was changed for "current events" is the second screen adaptation of The Quiet American in 2001.  Originally meant to come out just after 9/11, its release was delayed (and done on fewer screens than initially planned) because a key plot point suggests


Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
a government conspiracy by the US was responsible for a terror attack against civilians.

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post #55 of 56
11/30/10 at 7:53am

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Borst View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris
There is only one Dr. Strangelove, and it's a must own for anyone who even has an inkling that they love the cinema. Not to own this film can lead to the loss of one's cinephile license.
LOL is that a threat ? Doesn't matter, though. I already planned to pick this up. Sony continues to take very good care of their back catalog, I must say. Along with Ghostbusters this should be a very satisfying release.

 

Looks like I'll finally upgrade to the BD for this one (at just $8.99 from Amazon) -- and can come out of hiding ... though I think I've only been operating on a learner's permit all this time anyhow... smiley_wink.gif laugh.gif

 

 

And a much belated thanks, RAH, for another very fine (and fun) "few words"... thumbsup.gif

 

_Man_

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post #56 of 56
11/30/10 at 9:39am

Man, be sure and get a bottle of Pure Grain Alcohol and some Fluoride-free water.

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