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COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!! (Merged)

post #1 of 81
Thread Starter 
I currently only have basic-expanded cable in one room with no box, which works out perfectly for me. My HDTV's QAM tuner receives about 6-7 hi-def channels, and I supply my VCR and DVD-recorder with a cable signal with a splitter.

Well, I get a letter yesterday telling me that Comcast will be requiring everyone to get a digital cable box (in order to keep receiving channels 31-78 starting July 14th) which is going to totally screw up my TV watching-recording habits.

The box that we will be provided with does not provide any hi-def channels (you have to pay extra for that, of course) so I'll have to use a splitter and an A/B switch to watch any hi-def stations. Plus, I won't be able to watch one channel while recording another now, unless maybe the channel I want to watch is on channel 2-30 and the channel I want to record is on 31-78.

Plus, I'll have to program the cable box to the desired channels, in addition to my DVD-recorder every time I want to record programs while I'm away.

My VCR probably won't fit into the mix, so I won't be able to record 2 shows at the same time anymore. I can always bring the VCR into my bedroom where I have an antenna and a digital converter box, so I can record a broadcast station in there, but if I want to watch the tape in the den, I'll have to disconnect the VCR and move it.

...and this is assuming that the equipment and connections work as they're supposed to.

Thanks a freakin' lot Comcast!!!!!!!!
post #2 of 81

Competitors already require STBs on every television

Note that all of Comcast's competitors, here (four competitors in total), already require STBs (or CableCARD) for expanded basic service -- and those competitors derive a substantial competitive advantage from that requirement. Comcast has had to ride a very fine line between continuing the service that they've always had and as a result losing many of its most lucrative customers to its competitors.
post #3 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

You have four cable companies that will provide service to one address? Or are you perhaps talking about things like Dish Network, DirecTV, and Verizon FIOS?

Can you explain the competitive disadvantage that Comcast has by giving customers more flexibility? Personally, I've already pretty much given up on being a true Comcast customer as I've seen the writing on the wall as to what their intentions are. I hate STB's. If I have to, I'll just go back to OTA HD pickup for locals and do my other viewing using other methods. I'll treat them just like they treat me -- with little regard.
post #4 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

Cablevision here advertises that HD is free...but that's bogus. I just bought an LCD with qam tuning and I only get the broadcast HD channels. To get basic cable HD (i.e. Comedy Central, Fox News, Cartoon Network, etc.) I need a box or card.
post #5 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco
You have four cable companies that will provide service to one address?
By definition, there is always only one legacy cable company. The five subscription television competitors serving our town are Comcast, RCN, FiOS, Dish Network and DirecTV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco
Can you explain the competitive disadvantage that Comcast has by giving customers more flexibility?
Yes: It limits their available bandwidth, thereby preventing them from offering more HD channels, which is what all the other competitors tout as one of their big selling points, and one of the main reasons why the most lucrative customers switch providers.

There is no doubt that offering analog in-the-clear for expanded basic is also a competitive advantage, one that the legacy cable provider in many areas still retains. The question is when the competitive advantage that all-digital service affords (see above) trumps the competitive advantage that analog in-the-clear for expanded basic affords. That is probably already the case, and the legacy cable providers are working as fast as they can to catch up with the new reality.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco
Personally, I've already pretty much given up on being a true Comcast customer as I've seen the writing on the wall as to what their intentions are. I hate STB's. If I have to, I'll just go back to OTA HD pickup for locals and do my other viewing using other methods.
Then you're a lost cause with regard to the whole industry. They have to weigh the value of retaining customers like you against the value of customers willing to pay for the highest level of service with FiOS, because it offers a bunch more HD channels. The real shame of it is, in my opinion, that that bunch of HD channels is pretty much worthless, but that doesn't matter to many customers, who just see the advertisements and are sucked into switching.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco
I'll treat them just like they treat me -- with little regard.
Maybe you're misunderstanding their regard. You're not their only potential customer, and do be assured that their offerings aren't a personal insult directed at you, but rather reflects a weighing of how their offerings will be responded to by all their potential customers.
post #6 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooter
Cablevision here advertises that HD is free...but that's bogus. I just bought an LCD with qam tuning and I only get the broadcast HD channels. To get basic cable HD (i.e. Comedy Central, Fox News, Cartoon Network, etc.) I need a box or card.
You've misread Cablevision's advertisements. Here is what they actually say:

Quote:
HD is Free with iO!

* iO offers over 100 HD channels** in all, including NY sports, movies, and local channels in HD for FREE!
[Emphasis added.]

You can see it right HERE.
post #7 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

One of the many things I hate about Comcast, and there are many, is that I have to subscribe to the non-HD channels in order to get their flimsy HD selection (they haven't added a new HD channel in my area in months). As for the digital cable box being forced on subscribers, I hope it will actually be one that works. The Motorola one I have had is a crap-a-rola.
post #8 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn.F
One of the many things I hate about Comcast, and there are many, is that I have to subscribe to the non-HD channels in order to get their flimsy HD selection (they haven't added a new HD channel in my area in months).
Yes, that's precisely the point I was making to Mikah: There are a lot of customers like you who would prefer the limited bandwidth available be used more for more HD channels rather than for analog in-the-clear. And that's why Comcast is doing what MielR was concerned about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn.F
As for the digital cable box being forced on subscribers, I hope it will actually be one that works. The Motorola one I have had is a crap-a-rola.
The cable and satellite companies always have to offer an affordable (read: lower quality) option. Otherwise, consumers would complain even more about the (higher) prices (for rental of the higher quality devices).

Cable companies are also required to allow you to buy your own, higher quality host device, renting only a CableCARD from the cable company to support decryption of advanced services. So if you want a better digital cable box, you should buy your own. (However, do recognize that so few people feel that the lower quality cable boxes are such that buying their own higher quality cable box is worth it, so manufacturers don't have much incentive to offer boxes that the regulations say cable companies must support. If consumers were willing to pay more, then perhaps manufacturers would be more willing to offer you what you want. However, even though higher quality STBs are not available [yet], you can readily buy a high quality DVR, which will satisfy your need, and more.)

Note that the satellite companies got themselves exempted from the regulations that allow you to buy your own higher quality boxes, so you're stuck with what they offer themselves. Hopefully, the FCC will revoke that waiver someday.
post #9 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

This is from Cablevision's page:
iO offers over 100 HD channels** in all, including NY sports, movies, and local channels in HD for FREE!

And the TV ads don't have that mentioned either. They just say it's free. What's disingenuous about that is, they say that as regards FiOS which needs a box on every TV and the HD box is a bit more per month.
post #10 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

You apparently misread their advertisement again.

Read it more closely. It only says that the local channels in HD are for free.
post #11 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

Please show me where it says that. That sentence I quote is linear, no exclusions or seperation of service. And again, the commercials pump that HD is free with them.
post #12 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

There are commas in the sentence, that you are overlooking the ramifications of. If what you were saying was logical, then the sentence could be read to mean that they have 100 HD sports channels, for example. Rather, there are four parts of the sentence:

1) 100 HD channels in all,
2) including NY sports channels (like MSG?),
3) including movie channels (like HBO and Showtime), and
4) including local HD channels for free.

The commercials probably have the same statement, either verbally or in small print at the bottom of the screen, or a reference to "full details" elsewhere.

I understand you wish that they were staying that all HD is free. They're not saying that. You've misunderstood.
post #13 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

YouTube - Re: IO Digital Cable Rap (full version)
post #14 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooter
Did you watch the video?

Quote:
"For service limitations, details and restrictions, see optimum.com."
post #15 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

This Comcast development mainly screws me in not being able to record ESPN's Pardon The Interruption with my old ReplayTV on the analog cable feed (channel 46 in my area) in my bedroom, as it's the show I put on the TV when I go to sleep with a 30 minute TV timer. Sigh.

For my living room Comcast HD DVR, I'll have to pick up later showings of my non-broadcast network shows (from FX, TNT, USA, etc) since I now can't use my other ReplayTV to record above analog channel 30 once the switchover occurs. Boo. Nothing lasts forever.
post #16 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

Honestly, my opinion on it is that getting rid of analog cable is fine.

However, if they're going to do that, they need to offer those same channels that you were getting through analog on unencrypted QAM. Unfortunately, that's not how it appears that they'll be doing it. It seems to me so far that when they've taken away channels from my analog cable, that the digital equivalents have been encrypted.
post #17 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

Quote:
However, if they're going to do that, they need to offer those same channels that you were getting through analog on unencrypted QAM. Unfortunately, that's not how it appears that they'll be doing it. It seems to me so far that when they've taken away channels from my analog cable, that the digital equivalents have been encrypted.

Finally, someone who gets it. I don't mind them converting from in-the-clear (ITC) analog to ITC (Clear QAM) digital. What I mind is them converting from ITC analog to encrypted digital, and thus requiring me to use a STB on every TV.

I'd go into the number of reasons why it's an inconvenience, but I'm sure folks would just respond with telling me to get harmony remotes, ad infinitum just to watch TV. Rest assured I don't waste any energy trying to whistle into the wind, but when there's a thread dedicated to discussing how we feel about these things, you can be sure I'm going to let my feelings be known. Lost cause? Sure. But as I said, I expend no energy in trying to fight that lost cause because I already have alternative options that more than meet my needs. That's meant to represent my situation and feelings on the subject, and nothing more.
post #18 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

Eh, I more perturbed by the time-shifting changes that this new development entails because it will impact a lot of people's recording capabilities, costing them more for the "same" content to upgrade their recording gear.
post #19 of 81
Thread Starter 

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun
This Comcast development mainly screws me in not being able to record ESPN's Pardon The Interruption with my old ReplayTV on the analog cable feed (channel 46 in my area) in my bedroom, as it's the show I put on the TV when I go to sleep with a 30 minute TV timer. Sigh.

For my living room Comcast HD DVR, I'll have to pick up later showings of my non-broadcast network shows (from FX, TNT, USA, etc) since I now can't use my other ReplayTV to record above analog channel 30 once the switchover occurs. Boo. Nothing lasts forever.

Comcast says they'll provide (for free) one set-top box and up to two digital adapters.

I'm wondering if I should order an adapter in addition to the set top box, and using a splitter, use the adapter to feed my VCR and the set top box to feed my DVD-recorder? Would this work? I've spent the last few hours going through all of the wiring manuals that Comcast has on their site, trying to figure out how I'm going to have to hook up everything....ugggggh!
post #20 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco
Finally, someone who gets it. I don't mind them converting from in-the-clear (ITC) analog to ITC (Clear QAM) digital. What I mind is them converting from ITC analog to encrypted digital, and thus requiring me to use a STB on every TV.
So switch to one of the competitors.... except that they are all already operating that way. I think instead of condemning Comcast for switching to the new technology, it would be appropriate to acknowledge the fact that they've kept in-the-clear analog as long as they have. That's a balanced perspective regarding this development, rather than a one-sided consumerist perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco
I'd go into the number of reasons why it's an inconvenience, but I'm sure folks would just respond with telling me to get harmony remotes, ad infinitum just to watch TV.
Let's be clear: It is a big inconvenience. I use in-the-clear analog on three televisions. When Comcast does this in my area, I'm probably going to switch to FiOS. Not because Comcast did anything wrong, but just because at that point they would be no better for me than FiOS, and so I can switch back and forth to whichever supplier is currently offering the best price.
post #21 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

My biggest complaint was mentioned by the OP, I can't watch one channel while recording another, since I now have to go through their little STB.

On the other hand, for the two TVs I don't use that often, they now get about 30 more channels than before since switching to digital. Comcast also didn't charge me anything for the equipment.

I'd go satellite if I could, but don't really have a decent place to mount a dish. That leaves Comcast, which has a monopoly where I live.
post #22 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

Actually, you could get satellite if you had a decent place to mount a dish, so Comcast doesn't have a monopoly.

As it is, if you did go satellite, they'd force you to have a box on every television, as well.
post #23 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

Just for laughs, I decided to chat with Comcast this evening, and here's the transcript (with personal stull x'd out).

Quote:
Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:15:30 EDT 2009)>Hi, I am here to assist you with your concern. How are you doing today?

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:15:40 EDT 2009)>Hi Ricardo

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:16:08 EDT 2009)>Hi, how may I assist you today?

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:16:10 EDT 2009)>I'm looking for information on digital adapters for my analog TV recorders (like VCR and ReplayTV), since Comcast will be making channels above 30 into digital channels requiring a STB to decrypt and watch.


Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:16:58 EDT 2009)>I will be more than happy to assist you with that.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:17:01 EDT 2009)>May I please have your account number? It is located underneath your name and address in the upper left corner of the welcome letter.

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:17:02 EDT 2009)>hold on

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:17:36 EDT 2009)>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:18:00 EDT 2009)>Thank you very much.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:18:03 EDT 2009)>For security purposes, may I please have the name, phone number and address listed on your account as well?

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:18:07 EDT 2009)>patrick sun

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:18:15 EDT 2009)>xxx-xxx-xxxx

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:18:26 EDT 2009)>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:18:52 EDT 2009)>Thank you for that information. Please give me a couple of minutes while I pull up your account.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:20:10 EDT 2009)>Thank you for patiently waiting.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:21:45 EDT 2009)>Mr. Sun, as I have checked your account you already have a set top box so you do not have to worry about the digital migration because Comcast has you covered.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:22:39 EDT 2009)>However, if you want to have an additional TV you can order for the two digital adapters for free.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:22:51 EDT 2009)>You have the option to pick up your order at your nearest local center, have the equipment shipped to you or have a technician to install them for you. May I please know which do you prefer?

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:23:07 EDT 2009)>What are digital adapters? I was just looking for info on them.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:24:08 EDT 2009)>The digital adapter can only handle standard definition signals, as it is designed primarily for use with televisions that require to be connected to an antenna or have rabbit ears. If you are using an HD-capable television with the DTA, you may want to consider getting an HD-capable set-top box or a CableCard instead. For more information regarding your TV, please refer to your TV's documentation.

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:24:05 EDT 2009)>Losing the ability to record the analog channels above 30 is a pain in the rear, since I now have to look for other solutions.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:25:43 EDT 2009)>Mr. Sun, just to inform you that not all VCR are compatible with the digital device.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:26:54 EDT 2009)>Would you like to order the digital adapters, Mr. Sun?

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:27:16 EDT 2009)>sigh...at this point, might as well get the digital adapters ordered, though it doesn't help with my recording issues.

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:28:01 EDT 2009)>through the mail is fine, I don't think there should be a need for a technician visit for them.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:28:18 EDT 2009)>I do apologize for that, Mr. Sun.

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:28:31 EDT 2009)>I'm sure I won't be the only one who will complain about the recording issue.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:29:43 EDT 2009)>That is correct, Mr. Sun. How many digital adapters would you like to order?

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:30:25 EDT 2009)>Since 2 are free, 2 it will be (as I have 2 bedroom TVs).

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:31:11 EDT 2009)>That is great. Please give me a couple of minutes while I work on your order.

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:32:53 EDT 2009)>While I have you on the chatline, what would be the monthly cost for a 2nd STB? (both with and without recording capability)

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:34:40 EDT 2009)>Let me check on that. One moment, please.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:37:01 EDT 2009)>MR. Sun, it will cost around $6 to $8 a month.

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:37:18 EDT 2009)>that is without recording capabilities?

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:38:35 EDT 2009)>Yes, that is correct.

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:38:44 EDT 2009)>So...how much with recording capabilities?

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:40:44 EDT 2009)>Mr. Sun, DVR/HDTV services will cost $15.95 a month.

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:42:03 EDT 2009)>Ouch! So another $192/year to maintain the same level recording abilities before this change to convert channels above 30 to digitally encrypted channels? *sob*

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:42:47 EDT 2009)>I understand how you feel about this, Mr. Sun.

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:43:08 EDT 2009)>All right, so are we all set for the digital adapters order?

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:43:42 EDT 2009)>I will be processing it for you, Mr. Sun.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:44:05 EDT 2009)>Can you please verify the last 4 digits of your Social Security Number?

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:44:01 EDT 2009)>xxxx

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:44:27 EDT 2009)>Thank you very much.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:45:06 EDT 2009)>Do you mind to hold for a minute or two while I process this for you?

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:45:32 EDT 2009)>ok

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:45:52 EDT 2009)>Thank you.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:47:22 EDT 2009)>Thank you.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:48:02 EDT 2009)>Just to verify, the exact service address where you want your orders to be delivered is xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Is this correct?

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:48:00 EDT 2009)>yes

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:48:21 EDT 2009)>Thank you.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:48:25 EDT 2009)>One moment, please.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:48:32 EDT 2009)>I will be back with you shortly.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:50:27 EDT 2009)>Thank you for patiently waiting.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:50:41 EDT 2009)>I have successfully processed your order for DTA to be shipped.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:50:56 EDT 2009)>Here is your confirmation number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:51:17 EDT 2009)>This will take approximately 3-5 business days to be shipped.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:51:54 EDT 2009)>You also have an option to drop by at the nearest local office if you wish to pick up adapters immediately.

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:51:51 EDT 2009)>Okay, will be on the look out for the package.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:52:13 EDT 2009)>Is there anything else that I can further assist you with?

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:52:29 EDT 2009)>only if you can approve $200/year free vouchers for a 2nd STB/DVR...

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:53:36 EDT 2009)>Mr. Sun, it depends on the market. However, you may inquire the price at the local office.

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:53:42 EDT 2009)>I was just kidding.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:54:05 EDT 2009)> c1

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:54:15 EDT 2009)>Is there anything else could I help you with? I am more than willing to help you out.

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:54:22 EDT 2009)>This is perhaps a higher powers way of telling me to stop watching so much TV.

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:54:29 EDT 2009)>No, thanks for all the info.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:54:55 EDT 2009)>You are most welcome.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:54:57 EDT 2009)>Thank you for contacting Comcast, it has been a pleasure assisting you today. Please take a moment to participate in the survey by answering the pop-up questions when you click the "end session" button after this chat. We will greatly appreciate your feedback to help us improve our services.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:55:01 EDT 2009)>If you need additional assistance in the future, please do not hesitate to contact us at 1-800 COMCAST or through Live Chat (available 24 hours a day, seven days a week). Comcast also offers excellent FAQs and Help forums located at Comcast: The Official Website | High Speed Internet | Cable | Telephone Service to help you reach a resolution independently.

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:55:04 EDT 2009)>Good bye for now. Take care

Patrick Sun(Sun May 24 20:54:52 EDT 2009)>Bye

Ricardo.39111(Sun May 24 20:55:14 EDT 2009)>Analyst has closed chat and left the room

analyst Ricardo.39111 has left room



So, I don't think these digital adapter thingamabobs will do much for my situation at all, but if it cost them money to provide them free to me, so be it. Looks like I'm going to look into ATT U-verse and see when they'll be in my area (my officemate was able to get their service, as did another co-worker that lives near me).
post #24 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

Patrick wow.

I never had a problem with the dvr set top box until last year when the price for a second went from about $10 up to $20 were i live.
I quickly gave back the extra box.

last month i checked to see what the price was now for an extra box nd now it's about $15 but they offered me a discount of $7.99 for 6 months, so i took it.
btw I love the dvr, i stopped using my vcr as soon as i hooked up my first dvr and tried a dvd recorder
but found the process to be clumsy and far from easy, so it went back.

I don't see what the trouble with recording
onto a vcr or dvd recorder for those who have been doing it.
All you have to do is set the stb to go to the show you want to record
and it will tune right to it at the time of the show's airing.
This whole thing reminds me of when cable first arrived about 30 years ago or so.

there was no other option but to have a box and to tune your tv to channel 4.
Didn't other me then and really doesn't now, it's just the way it is.
post #25 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian^K
You apparently misread their advertisement again.

Read it more closely. It only says that the local channels in HD are for free.
The wording is ambiguous:

"iO offers over 100 HD channels** in all, including NY sports, movies, and local channels in HD for FREE!"

I read this sentence like Scooter does and take everything in the list to be encapsulated in the "for free":

"including (NY sports, movies, and local channels) for FREE!"

A more accurate wording would either be: ""iO offers over 100 FREE HD channels** in all, including NY sports, movies, and local channels" if all HD channels are free, or "iO offers over 100 HD channels** in all, including movies and NY sports! Local channels in HD for FREE!" if only the local channels are free in HD.

I have a feeling many of the legacy cable operators are going to use the June 12th OTA digital transition as an excuse to forcefeed digital cable to existing analog standard cable subscribers.
post #26 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

Quote:
I think instead of condemning Comcast for switching to the new technology, it would be appropriate to acknowledge the fact that they've kept in-the-clear analog as long as they have. That's a balanced perspective regarding this development, rather than a one-sided consumerist perspective.
Obviously, I disagree. Leaving current ITC content ITC after digital conversion is consumer friendly. If I'm unhappy with the service I pay for (or could pay for), I'm going to say so. Pointing out that the other alternatives have the same issues is a non-starter for me. I don't need what any of them are offering. I buy it if it works for me. I don't work for Comcast, so I don't feel any need to speak for them or be "balanced". They can do what they do. I can say why I won't be a customer without making excuses for them. You're likewise free to express whatever your feelings on the situation are. But since I'm not writing an impartial objective review of Comcast's offerings, it's a bit pointless to expect my feedback as a consumer to be "balanced".

BTW, when the local cable guy came out recently, we talked about this and when I innocently asked him why they're moving ITC content to scrambled, he said it's to combat cable piracy. Once again paying customers have to be inconvenienced for the pirates.

Quote:
This whole thing reminds me of when cable first arrived about 30 years ago or so.
That sure sounds like advancement.
post #27 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt
The wording is ambiguous:
And of course consumerists are going to read the message in a manner that indicates their advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt
I read this sentence like Scooter does and take everything in the list to be encapsulated in the "for free"
The real question is, now that you both know that you were mistaken, will you continue to read and interpret advertising in the future in the same way, setting yourself up for repeated bitter disappointment with the reality you encounter, or are you going to learn from the experience and learn to look at advertising with a much more critical and judicious eye, recognizing that there is no "free" lunch, recognizing that the mass-market is very good at assessing price-for-value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt
I have a feeling many of the legacy cable operators are going to use the June 12th OTA digital transition as an excuse to forcefeed digital cable to existing analog standard cable subscribers.
You'd be wrong. They are working at their own pace. They took a break during the period the FCC asked them to take a break, to preclude such confusion between the two transitions, from January to March 2009, but now they are back executing their projects, intended to improve their service offerings to better compete with their competitors. It is utterly unfair to expect companies to take more than three months off from trying to compete against their competitors.
post #28 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco
Obviously, I disagree. Leaving current ITC content ITC after digital conversion is consumer friendly.
But it isn't necessarily the most profitable manner of offering service... I typed in an explanation of it, but better yet, I'll just use yours (from later in the same message):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco
BTW, when the local cable guy came out recently, we talked about this and when I innocently asked him why they're moving ITC content to scrambled, he said it's to combat cable piracy. Once again paying customers have to be inconvenienced for the pirates.
We'll come back to this....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco
If I'm unhappy with the service I pay for (or could pay for), I'm going to say so. Pointing out that the other alternatives have the same issues is a non-starter for me.
You must be using the term "non-starter" in a manner I'm not familiar: If all the suppliers are operating the same way, then that's important information for you to integrate into your decision to switch. It basically means that the one that had been operating in a more customer friendly manner was better all along, and now they're going to be just as good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco
I don't work for Comcast, so I don't feel any need to speak for them or be "balanced".
I don't work for Comcast, either, but balance is always called-for. It is never best to ignore reality, to engage in entitlement mentality, whether your target be companies or countries or even just other people. Exercising entitlement mentality, I suppose, feels good when you're the one doing it, but remember that we all have different aspects to our lives, and you surely hate when entitlement mentality is directed at you in other contexts. And above I highlighted an example where someone else used the lack of balance in their perspective to justify cable theft, and you can clearly see how the lack of balance in their perspective prompted them to do something that ends up hurting you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco
They can do what they do. I can say why I won't be a customer without making excuses for them. You're likewise free to express whatever your feelings on the situation are.
Thanks. That seems to sum up the last page or so.
post #29 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

For the record, I still don't feel my take on this is wrong. The sentence and commercials make no bones about it. At minimum, it's misleading. If the sentence was written as in Adam's example, you would be right. However, it is not and thus, fraudulent.
post #30 of 81

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

From Cablevision's Website:
QUOTE:
Does HD cost more?
No. HD service from iO TVĀ® is free. Here's what you'll need:
A High Definition Television (HDTV).


An HD cable box connected with HD-compatible cables.
Exchange your current cable box for an HD cable box (same monthly charge) at any Optimum Store location, or call us to have an HD cable box shipped to you at no charge. Make sure you connect your HD cable box using the component cables provided or an HDMI cable (purchased separately).


A program broadcast in HD.
HD channels begin at channel 700. Note: Not all programming on HD channels is broadcast in high definition.
Depending on your iO TV package, you may receive up to 70 HD at no additional monthly charge.

Please visit your local Optimum Store or contact your local Cablevision representative to order an HD cable box today.

So it's not really free. You need to rent the box. They try to make a difference between their service and FiOS, as I stated earlier.
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