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Season 5 of MTM Show. Is This a Gamble - Page 4

post #91 of 122
10/24/09 at 3:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyjet View Post

ted baxter was my least favorite character.  i usually dont like those "dumb" parts that tv shows would put in.  i think mainly, because they are not believable, in the sense that any real person is like that.
 

There was an L.A. television station newscaster in the late 60's named George Putnam. He looked like Ted Baxter, sounded like Ted, and, apparently, was just as dumb as Ted.
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post #92 of 122
10/24/09 at 9:00am
All characters and situations are exaggerated for the sake of comedy.  I think that the Ted Baxter character was pretty believable, especially when you would compare this character to another character such as Steve Urkel.  I guess the Steve Urkel character was more of a nerd, instead of not being too bright like Ted Baxter.  Just a few minutes of Urkel (nothing against the actor) was more than enough that I could stand.  So annoying and not believable at all.  I guess the producers of Family Matters wanted him to play it way over the top.
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post #93 of 122
10/24/09 at 8:06pm
i have been watching episodes of the fugitive.  ted knight has been on 2 of them so far.  each were serious roles, and his voice was quite different.  it took quite awhile before it actually dawned on me that it was him.  and then i'd say, "oh my gosh, that is ted baxter - LOL".

i dont like those dumb characters.  but usually they dont have major roles.  for example, i hated the character of the brother in wonder years.  but luckily he wasnt on for very long at any one time.

i never watched the urkel show.  i got a glance of it once on youtube, to get a feel for it.  the voice itself was so irritating that i couldnt listen to it for more than a minute.  from what i have been told, he was a major character, if not THE MAJOR character.

i recall the name of george putnam.  he had a pretty big name, but i was just a little kid - so i doubt if would have known how dumb or smart he was.  i was into sports though, and even as a little kid, knew that curt gowdy made more mistakes than all the rest of the announcers put together.
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post #94 of 122
10/24/09 at 9:40pm
This thread has really brought the trolls out of the woodwork
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post #95 of 122
10/24/09 at 9:41pm
Remember the time Ted walked off the set to complain that the tennis match was going on too long and cutting out the news and they ended up cutting back to an empty studio for 10 minutes?  Wait,  that was Dan Rather.
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post #96 of 122
10/25/09 at 8:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chas speed View Post

This thread has really brought the trolls out of the woodwork

Really?  I guess the posts must have been deleted.
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post #97 of 122
11/17/09 at 9:17pm
I am upset by a few quality issues with the MTM season 5 set. First, most, but not all the episodes have a glaring audio fault at :11 -:16 in the opening credits. And a couple ahve an abbreviated syndicated opening credit. What up with that?
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post #98 of 122
11/18/09 at 7:47am
I just got in S5 from the DD sale, and watched the first ep the other night.
I still have season 4 in the shrinkwrap so I don't know what the PQ of that one is like, but I immediately noticed how much poorer S5 looks in relation to the first three seasons.
If I had to guess, I would say that the first three (four?) seasons were remastered, and for Season 5 (and beyond?) they just used whatever existing masters were available. I'm seeing a very soft, lower res image replete with the usual moire effects you get with them. In addition, compression doesn't look like it was attended to very well. Very disappointed how much Fox seems to have lowballed this property.


I'm sure we'll get the remaining seasons without too much further waiting, but I'm also sure it will not be with anywhere near the care they put forth in the past.
That's a real shame.
I'll still pick the rest up, but I will definitely not be rushing out to get them. I'll wait until there is an 'offer I can't refuse' sale.
I really wish I'd waited for that on this one
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post #99 of 122
11/18/09 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphanguy View Post

I am upset by a few quality issues with the MTM season 5 set. First, most, but not all the episodes have a glaring audio fault at :11 -:16 in the opening credits. And a couple ahve an abbreviated syndicated opening credit. What up with that?
 

I can't say for sure without going back in time, but I do recall that in the later MTM years, CBS started abbreviating the credits on MTM for a few episodes so it's entirely possible that those abbreviated credits are correct.
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post #100 of 122
11/18/09 at 10:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_Ray View Post




I can't say for sure without going back in time, but I do recall that in the later MTM years, CBS started abbreviating the credits on MTM for a few episodes so it's entirely possible that those abbreviated credits are correct.
 

You are correct.  Those abbreviated openings were originally aired during the first network run.  In fact, during Season Seven most episodes were aired with them.
Edited by JohnMor - 11/20/09 at 1:55pm
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post #101 of 122
11/19/09 at 4:59pm
Quote:i have been watching episodes of the fugitive.  ted knight has been on 2 of them so far.  each were serious roles, and his voice was quite different.  it took quite awhile before it actually dawned on me that it was him.  and then i'd say, "oh my gosh, that is ted baxter - LOL".


 Wait til you see him as the jail guard at the end of 'Psycho', although he hasn't got a speaking role.
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post #102 of 122
11/19/09 at 10:21pm
I really don't see how anybody can complain about this set.  It's dirt cheap (got mine for 18 bucks), it looks better then most 70's shows on DVD, it's uncut, and it was probably their best season.  There are plenty of sets out there to complain about, this isn't one of them. 
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post #103 of 122
11/21/09 at 8:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chas speed View Post

I really don't see how anybody can complain about this set.  It's dirt cheap (got mine for 18 bucks), it looks better then most 70's shows on DVD, it's uncut, and it was probably their best season.  There are plenty of sets out there to complain about, this isn't one of them. 

Well said!  I am pleased with this set.  Yes, I would have liked a few more amenities in the set, but I am just thrilled that it appears we will see the entire series of my favorite sitcom, at last.
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post #104 of 122
11/21/09 at 9:33am
I don't need amenities (if you are talking about extras). I just want the best A/V that the source permits.
Unfortunately the 'source' here looks to have been a decades old master. The image is then further compromised by a lackluster compression effort. While most people watching this on a smaller display from a farther viewing distance might not notice a big difference, on a large screen I see a noticeable drop in quality from S3 to S5. My previous enthusiasm for MTM on DVD has been because the main element- the show itself- has been presented in such a stellar fashion. Viewing seasons 1-3 on a front projector, on a 45" tall screen, the PQ was comparable to some of the very best film transfers I've seen...just shy of High Def, and in some cases even better than the lesser Bd discs out there.

What I see on the S5 set is perfunctory, low-balled broadcast quality.
I'm glad some people are happy just to have it, but it's hard for me to get excited over the quality of a no effort release like this.

OTOH, because Fox doesn't have to put any effort into the last two seasons either, it is more likely than ever that they will see a release. The content is important of course, but with plenty of buying choices out there of content I'm interested in, quality of presentation is also going to factor into my purchases and that's why the next two seasons of this show will be getting bumped to the bottom of the list.
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post #105 of 122
11/21/09 at 11:27am
I'm very pleased with season 5 -- i was only disappointed with the video image on one episode where the darkness level seems to jump (sorry, don't remember the episode name). It is fairly sharp considering time and the typical mishandling these go through over the years.
The price was good value, considering no extras. I'm hoping they are going to put something special together for season 7 -- maybe including the Oprah show, Mike Douglas or Merv Griffin vintage shows, a commentary on the final episode... Hopefully i'm not dreaming but if anyone shares my hopes, let's figure out how we can get that word to Fox.
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post #106 of 122
11/21/09 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoeshineboy View Post

I'm very pleased with season 5 -- i was only disappointed with the video image on one episode where the darkness level seems to jump (sorry, don't remember the episode name). It is fairly sharp considering time and the typical mishandling these go through over the years.
The price was good value, considering no extras. I'm hoping they are going to put something special together for season 7 -- maybe including the Oprah show, Mike Douglas or Merv Griffin vintage shows, a commentary on the final episode... Hopefully i'm not dreaming but if anyone shares my hopes, let's figure out how we can get that word to Fox.

There's always the Complete Series set...

And then there's Blu-Ray 
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post #107 of 122
11/21/09 at 10:47pm
The set looks fine.  If you can get angry over this season set you should probably stop buying DVD's of any TV show that was aired before 2009 and save yourself the aggravation. 
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post #108 of 122
11/22/09 at 12:55am
Perhaps we would all have been better off if they'd just released a complete series set to begin with. Imagine the years of hand wringing we would have saved.

I'm hoping in the future when classic series like this are released that they will start with a complete series set. That approach seemed to work fine with Get Smart.
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post #109 of 122
11/24/09 at 5:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chas speed View Post

The set looks fine.  If you can get angry over this season set you should probably stop buying DVD's of any TV show that was aired before 2009 and save yourself the aggravation. 

I wasn't expressing anger, I was expressing disappointment- hence the in the earlier post.
There are also plenty of classic TV season sets of shows older than MTM that offer a superior presentation in terms of A/V quality. If the quality on display in S5 had been the standard from the get go it would be one thing, but I have the first three seasons sitting here and  a superior effort is evident.
And it looks like there is at least one other person out there who holds this view.
Paul Mavis on that other forum just posted his review
Quote:
The Video
If possible, the transfers for The Mary Tyler Moore Show: The Complete Fifth Season look worse than those for Season Four - and they weren't anything special. While the original source material looks sound, with good color and relatively blemish-free prints, the authoring is inadequate, with compression and artifacting noticeable (seriously - macro-blocking on the opening red titles?). Edge enhancement is also too heavy. Subpar presentation.
And Ron just posted the press release announcing Season 6, so it looks every bit like these last few season are just being dumped out on disc. It's some victory for everyone that just wanted the show out (myself included), but it's almost like the retreating army burning the village and hanging the populace as they cede control.
It's a bittersweet victory to finally get last few seasons and then have them show up in such substandard fashion.
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post #110 of 122
11/24/09 at 5:33am
Well, I haven't seen S5 yet (just ordered it from Deep Discount) but I think we have to face reality. Initially MTM was dead in the water. Based on the core fan base, Fox decided to complete the series but evidently thought it wasn't profitable enough to spend the extra dough to remaster them. Looks to me like the remaining 3 seasons will be lower quality and with no extras. I probably will not see much of a difference since I usually watch these on a smaller tv. It would be great if all seasons were remastered but I have to be thankful for finally having them.
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post #111 of 122
11/24/09 at 9:04am
I thought the remastering was already done before Fox acquired the MTM library. That's why music is missing on every MTM Productions series on DVD, and that's why Shout! Factory only got good-enough-for-a-UHF-station-in-1982 masters of Rhoda.
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post #112 of 122
11/24/09 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewA View Post

I thought the remastering was already done before Fox acquired the MTM library. That's why music is missing on every MTM Productions series on DVD, and that's why Shout! Factory only got good-enough-for-a-UHF-station-in-1982 masters of Rhoda.

No, it's my understanding from at least one interview with an excutive (I believe Peter Staddon) at Fox, that they did a fairly expensive restoring/remastering of the TMTMS eps.  It was one of the things they regretted spending on at the time the first season tanked in sales.  I'll try to look to see if I still have that interview anywhere, but I did delete a lot of that stuff after we got S4 or so out on dvd.

And I bet that's why they chose not to do any remastering on the Rhoda eps.
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post #113 of 122
11/24/09 at 9:50pm
The DVD Talk review of MTM Season 5 wasn't exactly Paul Mavis's finest hour considering he spent almost the entire review commenting on the fact that Rhoda wasn't in it.
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post #114 of 122
11/25/09 at 6:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMor View Post




No, it's my understanding from at least one interview with an excutive (I believe Peter Staddon) at Fox, that they did a fairly expensive restoring/remastering of the TMTMS eps.  It was one of the things they regretted spending on at the time the first season tanked in sales.  I'll try to look to see if I still have that interview anywhere, but I did delete a lot of that stuff after we got S4 or so out on dvd.

And I bet that's why they chose not to do any remastering on the Rhoda eps.

I'm not surprised they regret doing quality work. That's why it wasn't repeated. Everything else from the MTM library was dependent on existing masters. But did they also regret doing zero promotion, and cutting "White Christmas"? The only reason we're getting the rest, even in a quick and dirty edition, is because of Oprah. And why didn't she promote the discs when they first came out? In fact, she did a Mary Tyler Moore tribute back in 1993, so the recent cast reunion was not the first time she's publicly paid homage to the folks at WJM.

They never remastered anything other than "M*A*S*H", which already had good-enough-for-DVD masters to begin with. There are no reviews of any filmed shows from Fox that Shout! got a hold of that have anything good to say about the transfers. Even "The Simpsons" doesn't look all that great on DVD on a large screen because of the analog tape post-production, until about season 10 when it switched to digital tape.

I think they learned the wrong lessons from this show's ordeal on DVD. They think it failed because they did too good a job on it. Now they have an ice cold relationship with this show and its fans.
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post #115 of 122
11/25/09 at 8:19am
as i said before, the studios want to nickel and dime us - get the most profit possible.

but there are tons of people such as myself, who only want a complete series, so that we can sit down and watch it chronologically, and see the full show for probably the first time in our life.

the fact that season 1 out of 6 or 7 seasons did not sell, means nothing.

so they do a good job with the first 3 seasons, get people hooked in with half the collection, and then dont put any time in the last few seasons.  sounds typical of a money hungry group of people.

this is why i wont buy anything but a complete series, and wait to see comments about them.

if the studio wants to do a good job with a complete series, most shows will be purchased.  i have no doubts that mtm, which was hugely popular, would be a good seller.

but they need to give us a complete series, that is well done.
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post #116 of 122
11/25/09 at 2:30pm
I don't feel nickel and dimed by a $20 season. If the first season had cost half what it did (it retailed for $49.95) with the same amount of effort and extras, it may have sold much better. And the economy wasn't nearly as bad then.
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post #117 of 122
11/25/09 at 5:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewA View Post

I don't feel nickel and dimed by a $20 season. If the first season had cost half what it did (it retailed for $49.95) with the same amount of effort and extras, it may have sold much better. And the economy wasn't nearly as bad then.


Except that at that same time the I Love Lucy 1st Season retailed for $59.99 and The Dick Van Dyke Show 1st Season for $69.99.  So I never understood the reaction to the MTM S1 price.  Even M*A*S*H sets back then retailed for $39.99, with no extras.  I don't think there were any series on dvd for $20 or $25 back then.

But it's very true about Fox and the video quality.  Even on Buffy and Angel, which I have, the video quality is not first rate.  And even on the Buffy musical episode, the dvd is non-anamorphic windowboxed.  They were already putting out anamorphic X-Files dvds, so it wouldn't have kiled them.  But when it comes to tv series on dvd, they do like their shortcuts.  Mostly.  
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post #118 of 122
11/25/09 at 5:40pm
people want complete series.  releasing 1 year at a time causes many people to wait, to see what happens.  especially with long-running shows.  bonanza for 14 seasons, for example.

a lot of the charm of owning tv dvds is to watch the series from beginning to end - probably something that few people did while it was live.

you dont feel nickel and dimed ?  what do you call it when the complete series sells for less than the total individual seasons ?  usually the case.

the point is - the studios want to get as much as they can, while doing as little as possible.  forcing them to put out the series in complete before purchasing - guarantees the buyer that he can get the whole series, and that he can find out what kind of product was released - thru sites like this one.
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post #119 of 122
11/25/09 at 9:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMor View Post





Except that at that same time the I Love Lucy 1st Season retailed for $59.99 and The Dick Van Dyke Show 1st Season for $69.99.  So I never understood the reaction to the MTM S1 price.  Even M*A*S*H sets back then retailed for $39.99, with no extras.  I don't think there were any series on dvd for $20 or $25 back then.

 
I Love Lucy went for a hell of a lot more than 60 bucks when it was first released.

Season 1 was originally put out in 4 episode, single disc releases, and the huge box set collecting them all was around a hundred bucks.

That put it right in line with the Star Trek releases, which were $119.99.

By the time ILL S2 was finally released, though, I think it was down to 40 bucks for a season in the format we had for the rest of the series.

As for MTM S1's failure, I think Fox overestimated it. I think they expected to do Simpsons or X-Files or Buffy numbers with a show that wasn't in the spotlight like those three. And we've suffered for that miscalculation ever since. They got burned their first time out with classic TV, and they've been wary ever since.
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post #120 of 122
11/26/09 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Obsolete Man View Post



I Love Lucy went for a hell of a lot more than 60 bucks when it was first released.

Season 1 was originally put out in 4 episode, single disc releases, and the huge box set collecting them all was around a hundred bucks.

That put it right in line with the Star Trek releases, which were $119.99.

By the time ILL S2 was finally released, though, I think it was down to 40 bucks for a season in the format we had for the rest of the series.

As for MTM S1's failure, I think Fox overestimated it. I think they expected to do Simpsons or X-Files or Buffy numbers with a show that wasn't in the spotlight like those three. And we've suffered for that miscalculation ever since. They got burned their first time out with classic TV, and they've been wary ever since.

 

So true, but I was referreing to when they first collected the season into a unified box set.  But I had my figures slightly backward: Season One (boxset) retailed for $54.95 and believe it or not, Season Two retailed for $59.95.  Same for Season Three.  Season Four retailed for $69.95(!!), Season Five $58.95 and not until Season Six was the price point lowered to $39.95.  So it toiok a long while to get down to $40.  Later the retail prices were lowered on all the earlier sets.
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