*** Official STAR TREK (2009) Discussion Thread - Page 17

Re: *** Official STAR TREK (2009) Discussion Thread

Zack-

You make a very good point that I should have known. I saw this in your earlier post and forgot about it, but you reiterate it here. When I design stuff, I do take into account what goes inside.

This illustration done by David Kimble in 1979 is my favorite. This one is a modified version of the original, but the cut-away portions are the same as the one I have. Looking at the center deck on the saucer, there really is room for one deck there. If you look at the rear side of the saucer, you can partially see the rec deck which is 2 decks tall. Given how it's drawn, the rec deck is strategically hidden to hide that it doesn't exactly fit. The floor would have to raise up a bit to match the curve of the hull. The area Kirk is standing when he tells the crew about the V'Ger threat in TMP.


In my browser, Safari, if you click on the image, it should enlarge. I'm sure it will in Firefox too. Or copy/paste to your computer to see full size, if interested.

Given your arguement of not looking at the external details as a way to gauge scale, then I agree with you. Though the hatch Kirk's get ejected through was pretty big still compared to the ship's size.

One last think, one other minor problem I noticed is that there is a few feet of corridors in front of the engineering section you can see in the TMP when Kirk tells Decker he's taking command. In the cut-away drawing, there is no room for that! You be walking into the upper sensor dish area.

This is fun stuff!

Re: *** Official STAR TREK (2009) Discussion Thread

If I remember correctly, of all the diffenrent iterations of the Enterprise done over the years never once has a toilet ever been included in the designs. Do you think they rectified the situation for the new movie? Maybe they have some sort of combo tractor-bean/transporter for waste disposal. If they haven't those 5 years mission are gonna get very uncomfortable.

Re: *** Official STAR TREK (2009) Discussion Thread

Has there been any mention (even tentative) of when the DVD release might be? I'm assuming Thanksgiving/Christmas, but seeing as how my birthday's in October, I'm hoping for around then!

Re: *** Official STAR TREK (2009) Discussion Thread

Clay, regarding release dates, check out this thread:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...red-dates.html

Re: *** Official STAR TREK (2009) Discussion Thread

Why do you think Kirk was ejected from the ship?

Re: *** Official STAR TREK (2009) Discussion Thread

There was a toilet in the Enterprise A brig in Star Trek V. It had a warning sign not to use it while the ship was in space dock.

Re: *** Official STAR TREK (2009) Discussion Thread

Oh cool - thanks a lot!

Re: *** Official STAR TREK (2009) Discussion Thread

In some slightly off-topic news;

For those interested in model making, and I know that some of the members here have expressed interest, if you have not seen, trekmovie.com has a story today about some new model kits coming for Star Trek 2009 and classic Trek too.

The new Enterprise kit sounds a little dissapointing at first, small scale and snap together. But perhaps it's detailing is quite good.

What was interesting, Polar Lights has re-issued the 1/350 scale re-fit Enterprise. A beauty at over 30" long. They mention the possibility of a TOS 1/350 scale Enterprise sometime in the next year. That would be excellent. However I am trying to prepare for a similar scratch build.....

Exclusive First Look At Star Trek Movie Enterprise Model + More Round 2 Trek Model Previews | TrekMovie.com

Re: *** Official STAR TREK (2009) Discussion Thread

Yes, saw that. It looks very cool. The TMP version looks very nice as well.

Good luck with your do it yourself project.

Re: *** Official STAR TREK (2009) Discussion Thread

First Details On Star Trek Movie Blu-ray – including Features and Deleted Scenes | TrekMovie.com

Trekmovie.com has what could be some early details on the Blue-Ray release. Looks like it could be an October release, the sooner the better IMO.

What do we call this new Series of re-booted alternate timeline Star Trek movies? Is it time for the fans to find a name. We can't call it the TOS movies. Star Trek TOS Movies Alternate Timeline? Star Trek - AT, Star Trek - Dimensions. I think it needs a name.

ST:R -- Star Trek: Rebooted

Or RS (or RBS) for Rebooted Series.

Star Trek NeroVerse, named after the revenge crazy Romulan who started it all! ;)

Star Trek - New Timeline

Star Trek - NT

AR, or Alternate Reality, seems to be the going name for it on most things Trek (memory alpha wiki, interviews with the creators, et cetera).  Personally, when contributing to threads dealing specifically with the new movie (such as this one), all of my references are to the alternate reality, unless otherwise stated as referring to the "prime reality" (which is the unofficial term for the original timeline).  When the topic is trek in general, I specify for both.

What a fun film -- again. We picked up the two-disc limited edition of XI yesterday, and watched it last night. We celebrated our youngest son's birthday Friday evening (he turns 13 this Sunday, on Nov. 22). As is customary on our childrens' birthdays, they get to watch what they like. So, I asked him what he wanted to watch, and without hesitation, he said the new Trek film. I didn't complain. All of our children loved it.

As always, it's great to see a film a second and third time. There is so much there that one can miss with only one viewing. I am quite interested in seeing the special features for this edition as well.

I posted this in one of the threads in the HD section but when the Enterprise is flying through all the ship wreckage at Vulcan,

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
goes flying by on the left side of the screen at 0:47:39 or 0:47:40. You'll probably need to slow it down to see it though.

Travis,

LOL.  I haven't seen that, but I have read here (and on one other Trek Board) that that 'item' is seen in XI. :)

Watched the BD the other night (only the 2nd time I have seen the movie), and it's a very good film. The casting is really tremendous. The people in the various roles made famous by other people do such a good job of inhabiting those parts that you feel that it is the characters you know and at the same time that you are seeing them in a new way.

I will however, discuss a few things I did not like, minor in the scheme of things. Let's start with Nero's ship. It's terrible. I know it is supposed to look like some horrible, imposing creature in space, but it's just a mess. It doesn't look like much of anything, let alone a starship capable of more destruction than warships. I thought the movie folks failed big time in Nemesis with the silly appearance of the Romulan ship, but this is just as silly looking. (Meanwhile, the Romulans always had very good looking ships in TOS, TNG and DS9.)

I know there is this whole elaborate backstory about Nero and how he was just a regular guy who got overwhelmed by extraordinary circumstances, etc. etc. But come on. Eric Bana plays him as a mustache-twirling villain who wants destruction simply for revenge. Explaining his motivation in a comic book isn't sufficient for crafting a good movie. NOTE TO STAR TREK WRITERS AND PRODUCERS: Enough of the Khan villain template! It was done successfully exactly once, and every time since hasn't measured up. Come up with something new.

Enough, also, with destruction. No less than two planets bite the dust in this movie. Use the special effects budget to showcase something wondrous and awe-inspiring, not to blow shit up.

Still, it was really a terrific movie. The origins of the relationship between the characters was handled so well that it felt honest. McCoy's comment to Kirk about Spock - "I like him" - was a highlight. Easily one of the best Trek movies, and certainly one of the best films of the year.



Edited by Sam Favate - 11/23/09 at 6:13am

Nero's ship is the first civilian Romulan ship I think we've ever seen in Trek. It looked pretty scary enough coming out of that rift to me! And I can believe a late 24th century mining vessel might be able to kick some 23rd century starships around.

And I didn't need the comic book to understand that losing your wife, unborn child, and your entire civilization all at once, might make you a little crazy and obsessed with revenge.

I’ve seen the JJ Abrams film twice in the theater and once last night on blu ray. Plus a rewatched a few sections while listening to the audio commentary.

 

I have to say that I enjoyed it more this time. When I first saw it, perhaps it was a shock to the system to see this incarnation with the new actors. But above all, I had issues with the main MacGuffin. And I still do and probably will for a while. The MacGuffin is Nero’s time travel back that causes the death of George Kirk and to a lesser degree, the birth of James T. Kirk in space, rather then in Iowa. Though he does grow up in Iowa, so maybe that’s nitpicking.

 

This new timeline is explained as an alternate reality. What’s funny is that now, this film is considered an alternate reality film.

 

As such, it means that the TOS that we know still exists, as far as the writers are concerned. But the more I think about it, Nero came back in time and altered the life paths of our Universe. He literally came back and reset the timeline so new events will occur now. I didn’t see any evidence to suggest that the original timeline continues. Spock Prime at the end even says there are so few Vulcans left, he’s sticking around to help rebuild his world. At least Spock was able to save the Vulcan elders and the cultural history. So I suppose nothing is really lost.

 

As I viewed the film this time, I did not remember the lines in the cave on Delta Vega where Kirk asks Spock if his other self knew his father. And Spock affirms that he did and he saw Kirk take command of the Enterprise. I rather liked that, it was so quick, it didn’t stick in my mind. Because I didn’t like how the film starts with Kirk being such a punk wasting his life getting into bar fights. I now realize that Pike sort of becomes that father figure he was missing that Kirk Prime had.

 

I didn’t like how Kirk skipped 13 years in this film and missed being a brash young Lieutenant in the Prime Universe to Starship Captain in this film. But after seeing the film again, I know that the incursion from Nero messed things up. I had hoped that after Kirk and crew saves Earth at the end of the film, that he’d still have a few more years to go before they gave him command of the Enterprise. But in retrospect, this film is full of little moments that it’s a shorthand way to get from punk kid to Captain in one movie.

 

I have the same feeling for Pike that I had the first time, I really like how he is portrayed in this film. Greenwood made the role his own. He had enough gravitas and strength of character to be a father figure to Kirk and leader of men. So I can now more easily accept the path of alternate timeline Kirk. And if it was intended or not, I thought Captain Pike was great as Kirk’s surrogate father figure.

 

As far as McCoy goes, Urban was very good. But I felt the writers took it right to the line and perhaps crossed it by using too many of his often used phrases. “Dammit Jim!”, and “I’m a Doctor, not a Physicist” and such. I know they had to do it. I think they also brought in a touch of De Kelley from the films verses the De Kelley of the series. In the films, he tended to almost be a parody or exaggeration.

 

I hated how they made Scotty less the serious and capable engineer and the comic relief and disgraced engineer who lost Archer’s beagle.

 

The rest of the characters like Sulu, Chekov and Uhura I really liked. As most TOS hardliners, I had issues with Uhura and Spock together. But she did flirt with him once and only once in TOS, in The Man Trap. I guess Quinto Spock is still trying to deal with his emotions at this stage of his life, as the actor had said in interviews.

 

The new Enterprise is another character we all love. I think the new version is a mix of hit or miss. I already commented earlier in this thread about what I don’t like about, so I’ll keep it short. It’s malformed and out of proportion! The extras on the second disc show the CGI artist say how they made it twice as large as the original. I think on paper they can say that, but to me, it looks about the same size based on window sizes and the size of the bridge dome compared to The Motion Picture version. I’ve seen the original Ryan Church design illustration and it’s a better design until the CGI guys and Chambliss, the art director, decided to amp up the engine size and tweak other areas.

 

 

Sam, I agree with you. The next film would be nice if there was less destruction and Khan like villains. But it seems the formula they feel they need. (TOS did have a fairly high destruction count too) Star Trek The Motion Picture had no villain and was more intellectual. And TMP is one of the best of the Trek films I feel. But they use it to measure what works too. The Voyage Home had no villain, but it did do very well. So that is the better measure. But I liked the first film’s harder Sci-Fi take, it just need that bit of humanity the series had.

Nelson,

As I mentioned in some thread, Nero was to me a complete afterthought in this film. From my perspective, he wasn't necessary, and really didn't do too much to move the film forward. I was much more impressed (as it seems you were) with seeing the characters as their younger versions, and with all of the TOS references. These kept me entertained (and nostalgic) throughout the film. Perhaps when I watch it again, I will pay more attention to Nero and some of the other aspects included in the film that you brought up.

That dialog in the cave is imperative for what will eventually occur between Spock and Kirk on the Bridge. I missed it when I saw it in the theater, so seeing Spock's (albeit provoked) anger was a bit of a surprise to me.

 I think the movie could have ended with Kirk being made first officer to Capt Pike on the Enterprise.   Then you could have the sequel open with it being a few years later with Pike leaving and Kirk taking over.

 Trekmovie.com has the cut scene written for William Shatner that would appear at the end of the film. Placed in the scene when Spock Prime meets and speaks with Quinto Spock and right before the last scene. The link to trekmovie below takes you to the story with details about. It says that there was concern that Shatner would not do it as he has said in the past he would not do cameos. Plus the concerns of Abrams.

http://trekmovie.com/2009/11/23/read-the-star-trek-2009-scene-written-for-william-shatner/

And here's the actual text:

ALTERNATE SCENE B

SPOCK PRIME
Then I ask that you do yourself a 
favor… put away logic, and do what 
feels right. The world you’ve inherited 
lives in the shadow of incalculable 
devastation… but there’s no reason you 
must face it alone.

And from around his neck, he removes the PENDANT that 
until now, we’ve only caught glimpses of. Places it on 
the table beside his younger self. The feeling in his 
eyes is profound…

SPOCK PRIME (CONT’D)
This was a gift to me. Representing… 
a dream. One we were unable to fulfill.
(softly)
The way you can now.

And moves to the door. Stops. Offers the VULCAN SALUTE:

SPOCK PRIME (CONT’D)
As my customary farewell would appear 
oddly self serving, I will simply say… 
good luck.

Their eyes hold. Spock turns, disappearing into the 
corridor. Young Spock stares at the empty doorway a 
beat, his mind a jumble of thoughts. Looks to the 
pendant… and realizes it’s a HOLO-EMITTER. After 
considering a beat, he hits an activation button and a 
MOVING HOLOGRAPHIC MESSAGE materializes before him:

CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK. WILLIAM SHATNER. As always, 
brash, wry, confident — and SINGING:

KIRK/ SHATNER
Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to 
you… 
(stops, grins)
I know I know, it’s illogical to 
celebrate something you had nothing to do 
with, but I haven’t had the chance to 
congratulate you on your appointment to 
the ambassadorship so I thought I’d seize 
the occasion… Bravo, Spock — they tell 
me your first mission may take you away 
for awhile, so I’ll be the first to wish 
you luck… and to say…
(beat, emotional)
I miss you, old friend.

… and we’re PUSHING IN on Young Spock, taking in the 
image of Kirk’s future self, the message, but above all — 
the clear, unquestionable friendship these two men had…

INT. CORRIDOR – CONTINUOUS

As Spock Prime walks off down the corridor, he passes 
right by a man conferring with a nurse — the man pauses, 
turns… it’s SAREK. Suddenly overcome by a feeling that 
the stranger who’s just passed him is… oddly familiar.

KIRK/SHATNER (V.O.)
I suppose I’d always imagined us… 
outgrowing Starfleet together. Watching 
life swing us into our Emeritus years…

INT. STARBASE ONE – HANGAR – ETERNAL NIGHT

MUSIC BUILDING — glass walls reveal THE ENTERPRISE at 
dock, UTILITY CRAFTS floating around it, repairing. 
Standing at attention in rows, THE ENTERPRISE CREW — 
over four hundred of them wearing DRESS UNIFORMS — TRACK 
DOWN the faces, all proud:

KIRK/SHATNER (V.O.)
I look around at the new cadets now and 
can’t help thinking… has it really been 
so long? Wasn’t it only yesterday we 
stepped onto the Enterprise as boys? 
That I had to prove to the crew I 
deserved command… and their respect?

And we STOP ON YOUNG KIRK. Composed, focused, proud. A 
man. And to every fan’s delight, finally wearing his 
YELLOW SHIRT. The FEDERATION COMMANDANT stands at a 
podium:

COMMANDANT
This assembly calls Captain James 
Tiberius Kirk…

Kirk breaks from formation, pivots, marches down the 
hangar — past UHURA… SULU… CHEKOV… SCOTTY. All 
Beaming. Notably absent, is Spock. Kirk ascends the 
stairs, snaps to attention:

COMMANDANT (CONT’D)
Your inspirational valor and supreme 
dedication to your comrades are in 
keeping with the highest traditions of 
service and reflect utmost credit to 
yourself, your crew, and the Federation. 
By Starfleet Order 28455, you are hereby 
directed to report to Commanding Officer, 
USS Enterprise, for duty as his relief.

Kirk turns. Walks to… PIKE. In a wheelchair now, 
wearing an ADMIRAL’S UNIFORM. Overnight, his hair’s 
turned totally grey — but despite his trauma, his 
pride’s overwhelming. They SALUTE each other:

KIRK
I relieve you, Sir.
 

PIKE
… I am relieved.

He opens a BOX in his lap — glorious in repose, a MEDAL:

PIKE (CONT’D)
And as Fleet Admiral, for your… unique 
solution to the Kobayashi Maru, it’s my 
honor to award you with a commendation 
for original thinking.

Pike containing a smirk, pins the medal to Kirk’s 
chest…

PIKE (CONT’D)
(a touch choked)
Congratulations, Captain.

KIRK
Thank you, Sir.

Kirk turns to the crowd. Eyes shining. WILD APPLAUSE. 
OUR MUSIC SOARS. Bones leans in to Sulu, rolling his 
eyes:

BONES
… Same ship, different day.

As Kirk rejoins his crew for hugs and congratulations, we 
go to the BACK of the hangar… SPOCK PRIME. Watching. 
Moved beyond words. He turns and leaves them to it… as 
he goes…

KIRK/SHATNER (V.O.)
I know what you’d say — ‘It’s their turn 
now, Jim…’ And of course you’re 
right… but it got me thinking:

INT. STARFLEET HOSPITAL – EARTH – DAY

Our montage comes full circle as we END on Kirk’s 
transmission:

KIRK/SHATNER
Who’s to say we can’t go one more round? 
By the last tally, only twenty five 
percent of the galaxy’s been chartered… 
I’d call that negligent. Criminal even — 
an invitation. You once said being a 
starship captain was my first, best 
destiny… if that’s true, then yours is 
to be by my side. If there’s any true 
logic to the universe… we’ll end up on 
that bridge again someday.

Stops, grins. Because this is the part he needs to say 
most…

KIRK/SHATNER
Admit it, Spock. For people like us, the 
journey itself… is home.

Young Spock’s face. Lost in feelings that flood through 
him.

 Scott-

Yeah, the cave scene for me was about Kirk understanding his destiny and what his life would be like in the other universe.

The scene where Spock Prime later tells Pine/Kirk that he has to make Quinto/Spock realize he's emotionally compromised was a fun homage to This Side of Paradise. But to me, Pine didn't do it as well as Shatner did. It seemed so forced. "Your father was a computer, like his son!"

Nelson,

Thanks for the cut scene text (Kirk).  I just read it -- very interesting.  I do wish (somehow) that some footage had been shot of this.  Think of how great it would have been to see it on the Collector's Editions (SD or blu-ray).

Oh my God, I LOVE that cut scene! I really wish they'd done it!

That scene with Shatner would have been awesome. It's too bad they didn't do it.

I noticed quite a few are comparing this film to the others, how it lines up or how the time line has been changed. As I see it, this film is a complete restart to the franchise so it cannot be compared to anything previously Star Trek.