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Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Here they are, from every HTF'ers 2nd favorite web site.

I know about the misleading nature of screen caps, but the comparison shots from the SD are promising.

Fargo Blu-ray Steve Buscemi William H. Macy Frances McDormand

EDIT: After looking again, on my bigger and better home monitor...sharpening is all over the place. Now it's anxious crossed fingers.
post #2 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

Looks like it's been digitally sharpened. The shot of the parking lot has lots of edge enhancement, and the details on the actor's faces and the grain appear bit too sharp.
post #3 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

Thanks for this thread David.

I didn't even realize Fargo was coming to Blu-Ray.
One of my favorite films, I'm picking this up for sure.
post #4 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

The dvd suffered from severe edge enhancement as well, at least the R2 version did. It's too bad, otherwise I would've gotten it. Fargo remains one of my absolute favorite films.
post #5 of 28
Thread Starter 

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Borst
The dvd suffered from severe edge enhancement as well, at least the R2 version did. It's too bad, otherwise I would've gotten it. Fargo remains one of my absolute favorite films.

Yes, indeed. I'm a hardcore Coen-head, but unless I hear much better from multiple sources beforehand, the pre-order will be cancelled.

Damn shame. But if any movies are ripe for do-overs, as we move further into the Blu-era, the Coen films will surely be among them.
post #6 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Wilkins
Yes, indeed. I'm a hardcore Coen-head, but unless I hear much better from multiple sources beforehand, the pre-order will be cancelled.

Damn shame. But if any movies are ripe for do-overs, as we move further into the Blu-era, the Coen films will surely be among them.

It's really too bad, because if they hadn't used so much EE it would've been a gorgeous Blu-Ray.
And I doubt that the Coen films will be revisited much. Yes, the popular ones like Fargo and The Big Lebowski perhaps, but the fairly unknowns like Barton Fink and The Hudsucker Proxy barely got any extras on the dvd. I don't think Blu-Ray will be much different.
post #7 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

Hmmm... I don't know, but I don't see any particularly bad signs of EE in those screen caps. There doesn't seem to be any obvious EE haloes and such artifacts, and there also isn't the usual DNR that would've likely been the studio's reason for applying heavy EE.

Looks plenty good enough for me so far...

_Man_
post #8 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

Look at screenshot 4, check the big version of the cap. You can see everything in it has halos.
post #9 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-Fai Wong
Hmmm... I don't know, but I don't see any particularly bad signs of EE in those screen caps. There doesn't seem to be any obvious EE haloes and such artifacts, and there also isn't the usual DNR that would've likely been the studio's reason for applying heavy EE.

Looks plenty good enough for me so far...

_Man_

I have to agree. I know EE when i see it, but i must admit i really dont see it in this case. I see sharpness, and detail thats lacking in the DVD versions.

But the value of screen caps on a computer monitor, and a still image, at that, have never kept me from buying a movie. The value of them has been debated around here even before we had Blu-ray. Id rent if i was on the PQ fence. In this case its a day 1 buy for me!
post #10 of 28
Thread Starter 

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

I sure hope that you optimists are right. I'll reserve final judgement until there's evidence and/or feedback from other sources.

I used to be an optimist, until my skin took on this obnoxious jade tint.
post #11 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

While the EE only seems to affect that white snow covered shot, the other screenshots look unnaturally sharp as well. Look at William H. Macy and Frances McDormand. They look like they've got skin conditions.
post #12 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

EE just doesn't bother me on blu. I simply don't notice it. That's not to say I want EE applied to transfers -- it's just nowhere near as distracting as it is on DVD.
post #13 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

Two points:
(1) these are static screen caps and in no way indicative of what the film looks like in motion; and
(2) haloes don't only come from EE, and the parking lot shot is a classic example of where we would see haloes created by optics.

I'll reserve judgment until I actually see the disc.
post #14 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

I looked at the Beaver link and at least one set of caps for sure is a bloody mess

These caps look very unnatural and edgy and I strongly doubt that I will find the Blu-Ray acceptable in motion. So for now it is a rental for me. Good thing that we have sites that post caps so that we can spend money on releases that we deem worthy purchases both with regard to the quality of the movie and the presentation.
post #15 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
Two points:
(1) these are static screen caps and in no way indicative of what the film looks like in motion; and
(2) haloes don't only come from EE, and the parking lot shot is a classic example of where we would see haloes created by optics.

I'll reserve judgment until I actually see the disc.

Good points, obviously.
I want to wait until reviews are coming in, so the matter is resolved. Also, DVDBeaver would've mentioned it, if there was EE applied, I would think?
One question, though. How could halos be created by optics? And why would it be done? Accidental or intended? Thanks.
post #16 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Borst
Good points, obviously.
I want to wait until reviews are coming in, so the matter is resolved. Also, DVDBeaver would've mentioned it, if there was EE applied, I would think?
One question, though. How could halos be created by optics? And why would it be done? Accidental or intended? Thanks.

I don't know the details about optics, but it should not be surprising if halos might show up as an accepted side-effect -- a choice made and accepted by the original filmmakers.

The concept (and practice) of sharpening images (and tweaking contrast) on film is not new w/ digital. For instance, the use of methods like unsharp mask (for that purpose) actually came from the old (B&W) film world before it ever showed up in Photoshop -- great photogs like Ansel Adams used such methods all the time to enhance their photographs. That's true for still photography anyway.

So just because you see halos does not necessarily mean it was added via EE later just for the homevideo transfer. For instance, I think there was much talk about whether Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey had such effects due to his choice of optical effects -- I remember seeing that in one AVS thread debating over EE issues (though I rarely ever drop by there anymore).

OTOH, RE: DVD Beaver, their comments/info may not be so critical as to scrutinize the more subtle applications of EE and such, IIRC. For instance, they certainly did not pan the Amadeus BD (nor Dark City nor Dark Knight, IIRC) nearly as much, if at all, as RAH did over here -- well, RAH didn't pan Dark City and Dark Knight, IIRC, but he did note that their PQ are mildly questionable due to possible DNR and/or EE added even though they didn't bother him much.

_Man_
post #17 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

Thanks for the info . It does seem strange to add edge enhancement and leave the grain intact. Most of the time it goes hand in hand with DNR. But I'll wait for other reviews, and hopefully Mr. Harris' take on this.
post #18 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

Certain lenses in certain circumstances will produce artifacts that some mistake for edge enhancement haloes, particularly in scenes where the predominant colour is white and extremely bright, like if sunshine were shining on snow.
post #19 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
Certain lenses in certain circumstances will produce artifacts that some mistake for edge enhancement haloes, particularly in scenes where the predominant colour is white and extremely bright, like if sunshine were shining on snow.

Maybe you're refering to some sort of chromatic aberration(?) that looks similar to EE halo-ing then.

In digital still photography, you can easily get somewhat similar aberrations that show up as purple fringing around blown-out areas of an image -- though in that case, it's usually a combo of the optics and the image sensor, not strictly an optics-only issue.

_Man_
post #20 of 28
Thread Starter 

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

This one is at the top of my Netflix queue. If anybody else has a chance to look at it, rental or otherwise, your personal impression of PQ would be welcome.
post #21 of 28
Thread Starter 

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

The disc arrived from Netflix yesterday, and I'm sorry to say the edge enhancement is well beyond my limits of acceptability. I'm a hardcore fan of the Coen brothers' work, and I can wait as long as required in order to put quality discs on my shelf. No purchase...not even on sale.
post #22 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

Sorry to say I purchased this and have to agree. This is perhaps the first Blu-ray I've seen (and I work in home video, so I've seen A LOT) that I think may be worse than the DVD. The edge enhancement is atrocious. Sad, I'm a huge fan of the Coen Brothers and they and Roger Deakins deserve far better treatment.

I will say this for it: they did manage to leave the grain intact, no DNR here. But this is the first case of this extreme over-sharpening that I've yet seen on Blu-ray, and I dislike it just as much as extreme DNR.
post #23 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Mason
Sorry to say I purchased this and have to agree. This is perhaps the first Blu-ray I've seen (and I work in home video, so I've seen A LOT) that I think may be worse than a DVD. The edge enhancement is atrocious. Sad, I'm a huge fan of the Coen Brothers and they and Roger Deakins deserve far better treatment.

I only noticed a bit of EE now and again (on a 92 in. FP set-up). Maybe I was expecting that look for a film filled with subjects against white backgrounds, I don't know. YMMV, but I'm certainly glad I picked it up. Wonderful grain intact, rock solid image (look at the tree limbs and fine detail when they get to the lake house - simply...wow...).
post #24 of 28
Thread Starter 

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

I'm not saying that the issue is as severe as Patrick indicates. Some scattered scenes look very good.

For me, 'Fargo' isn't just another title, and it's one I've been waiting for in hi-def since the formats began; therefore the issue isn't comparable to a garden variety action flick (though I would still steer away from purchase without an inviting price).

Everybody should decide for themselves. Thankfully, due to feedback and alerts via forums like this one, I own very few marginal discs. Just my two cents.
post #25 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

So are you guys actually spotting EE halos (or similar) in the darker scenes, not just against white snow background in daylight? Also, are you sure some of these "halos" are not just side-effects of certain backlighting techniques?

Does seem kinda odd they would apply substantial EE while still leaving all the grain/noise intact.

_Man_
post #26 of 28
Thread Starter 

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-Fai Wong
So are you guys actually spotting EE halos (or similar) in the darker scenes, not just against white snow background in daylight? Also, are you sure some of these "halos" are not just side-effects of certain backlighting techniques?

Does seem kinda odd they would apply substantial EE while still leaving all the grain/noise intact.

_Man_

Yes, I noticed edge enhancement in scenes that were dominated by mid-tones and below, not just daylight, snow dominated scenes.

I'm curious to hear impressions from others here on the forum. I certainly don't have the same credentials that many of you have, and my system isn't top of the line (Sanyo PLV-Z4 projector, with an image of 65" diagonal, not professionally calibrated, and a Samsung BD-P1400 player.) In other words, a poor man's entry level projection system.
post #27 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

I love Fargo to death, and have bought it several times, starting with the LaserDisc back in the "good ol' days."

Needless to say, I couldn't resist picking this one up. I have just compared it directly with the MGM SE DVD.

Yes, this new blu is definitely over sharpened, with EE, but to be honest, its SO much better than the DVD that despite this flaw, the Blu is the only copy I'll watch from now on.

Extras seem to be identical, except the 20-minute excerpt from "The Charlie Rose Show" is gone, and the still gallery has been upgraded to HD.
post #28 of 28

Re: Early screen caps from 'Fargo'...

Looks, and sounds fantastic. I'm really pleased with this one. Worlds better than the SD dvd. Love that film grain
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