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Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

post #1 of 58
Thread Starter 
I think George's rug may be on a little too tight. As expressed in his op-ed in the Washington Post....

George Will hates denim

Quote:
On any American street, or in any airport or mall, you see the same sad tableau: A 10-year-old boy is walking with his father, whose development was evidently arrested when he was that age, judging by his clothes. Father and son are dressed identically -- running shoes, T-shirts. And jeans, always jeans. If mother is there, she, too, is draped in denim.

Writer Daniel Akst has noticed and has had a constructive conniption. He should be given the Presidential Medal of Freedom. He has earned it by identifying an obnoxious misuse of freedom. Writing in the Wall Street Journal, he has denounced denim, summoning Americans to soul-searching and repentance about the plague of that ubiquitous fabric, which is symptomatic of deep disorders in the national psyche.

It is, he says, a manifestation of "the modern trend toward undifferentiated dressing, in which we all strive to look equally shabby." Denim reflects "our most nostalgic and destructive agrarian longings -- the ones that prompted all those exurban McMansions now sliding off their manicured lawns and into foreclosure." Jeans come prewashed and acid-treated to make them look like what they are not -- authentic work clothes for horny-handed sons of toil and the soil. Denim on the bourgeoisie is, Akst says, the wardrobe equivalent of driving a Hummer to a Whole Foods store -- discordant.

Long ago, when James Dean and Marlon Brando wore it, denim was, Akst says, "a symbol of youthful defiance." Today, Silicon Valley billionaires are rebels without causes beyond poses, wearing jeans when introducing new products. Akst's summa contra denim is grand as far as it goes, but it only scratches the surface of this blight on Americans' surfaces. Denim is the infantile uniform of a nation in which entertainment frequently features childlike adults ("Seinfeld," "Two and a Half Men") and cartoons for adults ("King of the Hill"). Seventy-five percent of American "gamers" -- people who play video games -- are older than 18 and nevertheless are allowed to vote. In their undifferentiated dress, children and their childish parents become undifferentiated audiences for juvenilized movies (the six -- so far -- "Batman" adventures and "Indiana Jones and the Credit-Default Swaps," coming soon to a cineplex near you). Denim is the clerical vestment for the priesthood of all believers in democracy's catechism of leveling -- thou shalt not dress better than society's most slovenly. To do so would be to commit the sin of lookism -- of believing that appearance matters. That heresy leads to denying the universal appropriateness of everything, and then to the elitist assertion that there is good and bad taste.

Denim is the carefully calculated costume of people eager to communicate indifference to appearances. But the appearances that people choose to present in public are cues from which we make inferences about their maturity and respect for those to whom they are presenting themselves.

Do not blame Levi Strauss for the misuse of Levi's. When the Gold Rush began, Strauss moved to San Francisco planning to sell strong fabric for the 49ers' tents and wagon covers. Eventually, however, he made tough pants, reinforced by copper rivets, for the tough men who knelt on the muddy, stony banks of Northern California creeks, panning for gold. Today it is silly for Americans whose closest approximation of physical labor consists of loading their bags of clubs into golf carts to go around in public dressed for driving steers up the Chisholm Trail to the railhead in Abilene.

This is not complicated. For men, sartorial good taste can be reduced to one rule: If Fred Astaire would not have worn it, don't wear it. For women, substitute Grace Kelly.

Edmund Burke -- what he would have thought of the denimization of America can be inferred from his lament that the French Revolution assaulted "the decent drapery of life"; it is a straight line from the fall of the Bastille to the rise of denim -- said: "To make us love our country, our country ought to be lovely." Ours would be much more so if supposed grown-ups would heed St. Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, and St. Barack's inaugural sermon to the Americans, by putting away childish things, starting with denim.

(A confession: The author owns one pair of jeans. Wore them once. Had to. Such was the dress code for former senator Jack Danforth's 70th birthday party, where Jerry Jeff Walker sang his classic "Up Against the Wall, Redneck Mother." Music for a jeans-wearing crowd.)
post #2 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

Actually that is a pretty funny article.
Aside from work and weddings, all I have ever worn is jeans, by the way.
post #3 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

That's an oddly asinine article that ignores the obvious: denim pants are comfortable. More comfortable, in general, than typical khakis or dress pants. Denin is affordable, often less than dress pants. And denim goes with almost everything, so the unfashionable male doesn't have to worry (and get wrong) whether to to wear light brown, dark brown, or black pants; denim serves all purpose.

That said, I cringe at times at the slobification of the workplace.
post #4 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

This from a guy who wears a bow tie!
post #5 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob McLaughlin
Actually that is a pretty funny article.
Aside from work and weddings, all I have ever worn is jeans, by the way.
If I could wear jeans to a wedding, I would! LOL

I love this part of the article:
Quote:
Eventually, however, he made tough pants, reinforced by copper rivets, for the tough men who knelt on the muddy, stony banks of Northern California creeks, panning for gold. Today it is silly for Americans whose closest approximation of physical labor consists of loading their bags of clubs into golf carts to go around in public dressed for driving steers up the Chisholm Trail to the railhead in Abilene.
Does this guy think that most Americans are yuppie golfers that never get their knees dirty?? We sit in our mansions while our maids, butlers, and gardeners handle our chores??

The last time I checked, I could get my jeans dirty/muddy (from the harsh New England winter mess) and a quick wash in the washing machine would solve the case. Ever try to get encrusted road salt/grit out of a pair of Dockers, George?

Although, I guess one wouldn't know anything about road salt when you get picked up, curbside by your stretch limo. LMAO!
post #6 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

So basically George Will would never vote for a guy like this?

post #7 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Brooks
This from a guy who wears a bow tie!
post #8 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Nicholls
So basically George Will would never vote for a guy like this?

The funny thing is that guy only put on jeans to sell a false image of himself.

There is a great story of an interview he gave on his ranch. His handlers showed up first and to their horror found him decked out in full English riding gear. If I remember correctly they had to provide him with the western attire.

That makes sense considering the he came from a time in Hollywood when actors were always nicely attired when in public.

As for Will’s article, I would agree that jeans are often worn in situations in which they are inappropriate attire but there is no accounting for taste.
post #9 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

I know the dress code out here on the West Coast is much more casual than on the East Coast. A Polo shirt and Khaki's is the norm out here. And I've seen guys walking down the halls at Palm in Sunnyvale wearing a tank top, shorts and thongs. Doesn't bother me a bit if they do their job well (I know, Palm isn't doing too well right now but who is?).

As for denim, I wear it all the time. As long as it's neat and clean and not too in-appropriate, who cares what it is? I know George Will is a well respected journalist, but in this case, f*%#'em.

Sorry, I'm having a lousy day .
post #10 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

Quote:
Originally Posted by gene c
I know George Will is a well respected journalist
Not so much lately.

(I won't get into detail; a Google search should bring it up.)
post #11 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

Quote:
Originally Posted by gene c
Sorry, I'm having a lousy day .
No reason to appologize. If some out-of-touch old man wants to express his ignorant mind, then you don't need to be having a lousy day to tell that geezer off.

George Will sounds like one of those old dudes who doesn't adapt very well to change. He mentions why denim was first invented then doesn't expect it to find it's way into modern fashion?? Hey George, I hate to tell you but fashion DOES change. People wear baseball hats without being on a baseball team; People wear jogging pants to go shopping; Strraight women wear men's clothing; Guys (who've never been in an airplane) wear bomber jackets.

Get a clue. Fasion didn't stop in the 1900's.
Quote:
I know the dress code out here on the West Coast is much more casual than on the East Coast.
Besides maybe the business areas of Manhatten, we're just as casual.
post #12 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

What's so wrong with denim jeans? That's what I wear and my friends and so on. This guys a trip. However, I will say that sweat pants are sloppy looking on most people and I can't imagine why people wear them casually in public. People who wear sweat pants in public have given up on life.
post #13 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

And then there's always this guy.



I'll bet every president since FDR has worn jeans.

EDIT Well maybe not Harry Truman...he was a haberdasher previously. But how about FDR's smarter cousin?



"Perdicaris alive, or Raisuli dead!"
post #14 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

Quote:
Today it is silly for Americans whose closest approximation of physical labor consists of loading their bags of clubs into golf carts to go around in public dressed for driving steers up the Chisholm Trail to the railhead in Abilene.

I have degrees in physics, math, and a doctorate in law. Summers in college I got a job cleaning the printing press at the San Jose Merc after the night's run was over, and came home looking like a coal miner. When working as a defense contractor I had to install and debug prototype systems on ships and submarines worldwide, and it was a tough and dirty job on occasion. I restored old British sportscars as a hobby, and still do all my own work on my cars. When money was tight I re-roofed my own home. In retirement I keep a rake in my pickup since I volunteered to run the irrigation system for our HOA, and have to pull debris out of the irrigation canal so the water runs right. I also hike distances in the Sawtooth Wilderness area with a pack on my back, a pistol in my holster, and jeans on my legs.

Somehow Will comes across as some Nancy-boy who coasted through J-school and never did an honest day's work in his life. I'm far better educated than him and never shirked honest work. IMHO that's what made America a great country: her educated classes would do what it took to get the job done.
post #15 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

I had a similar conversation with an old friend of my father-in-law about 15 years ago. He railed against everyone wearing jeans on a holiday (Thanksgiving) while he was decked out in dark brown Sansabelt slacks, a baby blue golf shirt, black socks, and white shoes. Thanks but I'll stick with the denim.
post #16 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

Maybe Will is experiencing AndyRooneyization -- the unfortunate transition of journalist into ranting about stupid, obvious things in their twilight years.

When George Will observes that there are not, in fact, any pebbles in "Fruity Pebbles", we'll know he's fully there.
post #17 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

How un-American!! Blue jeans are right up there with baseball and apple pie. Reminds me of the time I had to sit outside during a school dance because I wore blue jeans. The principal thought they contributed to bad behavior. Jeans were all I owned.
post #18 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

I don't see anything wrong with jeans except:

If it's a jean-jacket, GROOOOOOSSSSS!
If it's too dark.
If it's too light.
If it's acid washed
post #19 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

I work in a warehouse and do a lot of loading, lifting, pulling, pushing and cleaning..... jeans are pretty much the required uniform! I love my denim! Infact if I could I would wear it every day.... oh wait I do!

I personally do not want to have to be dressed to the nines every day like women use to back in the day. If I had to put on a dress and heals every day and make sure my hair was curled just so and that my makeup was on right, I would be miserable. I enjoy getting dressed up for special occasions, but an every day thing is just too much for me.

Besides, I can look just as nice in my denim as I would in dress. Hell, Brooke Shields made denim sexy with her white buttoned down shirt and her Calvins!
post #20 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

Why does George Will hate America?
post #21 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd H
Why does George Will hate America?
I don't think he does. I've seen plenty of rants on HTF on various subjects--behavior in theaters, service in restaurants, behavior in stores, the price of various goods, etc. Such rants don't mean the people "hate America", but rather, express their displeasure at what people do. Expressing an opinion is VERY American.

As far as dressing in jeans, the culture has changed. I rarely see people dress up in my office work environment. That's just the way it is.
post #22 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd H
Why does George Will hate America?

He should have titled that piece, "F*ck You Yankee Blue Jeans!"
post #23 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Almeida
He should have titled that piece, "F*ck You Yankee Blue Jeans!"
Considering that he was born in Illinois, received much of his education in the Northeast, and lives in D.C., I don't see what relevance the "Yankee" label has.
post #24 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

You may be an immature slob for some, but it could make you rich!

Brit Eaton: Hunting for Vintage Denim | Outside Online

Jay
post #25 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

I would have been perfectly fine with the article (and would have agreed) if he had just spoke about how people wear denim inappropriately. I'm not fond of it when I see people wearing jeans to church or "classy" occasions. I've even seen my share of jeans at wedding receptions. To me, that's just disrespectful.

But George's views were not just that, he's definitely still holding onto the ideals of the 30's and 40's where people dressed up whenever they went out in public. Going to the movies, dinner, sporting events, etc. meant you got dressed up nicely. Have you ever seen photos of old baseball games where all the fans would wear suits and those old hats (Bolero's??)??

But fashion and style changed with the times. It is now socially acceptable to wear denim as an every day item. It's also acceptable to go out to dinner without the need for wearing a jacket and tie. Society is allowed to dress more relaxed then was socially acceptable 50 years ago.

The problem I see is that George's ideals are still stuck in that time period. That's not a healthy view and should be used as judgment on society. Sure, maybe back when George was a child you'd be looked upon as 'low class' if you wore jeans because only the low class people wore jeans (i.e. the coal miners and laborers), but I would have hoped that we've all learned from our mistakes and that it's no longer sociably acceptable to look down on people whom we feel superior to.


EDIT: after rereading the full article, I'm a bit confused - how much of this article is actually George Will and how much is Akst?? Is George just agreeing with this guy? because it sounds like the real ass in this Daniel Akst guy.
post #26 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

Quote:
Originally Posted by troy evans
However, I will say that sweat pants are sloppy looking on most people and I can't imagine why people wear them casually in public. People who wear sweat pants in public have given up on life.

That's the same opinion George Will has about jeans. It's just a generational thing. I'm sure when I'm his age I'll rail against what the younger generations are wearing (or not wearing).

And I agree with MarkHastings, while day to day living, jeans are fine, it would be nice if people would 'dress up' for church or 'classy occasions'.
post #27 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

Quote:
Originally Posted by troy evans
I will say that sweat pants are sloppy looking on most people and I can't imagine why people wear them casually in public. People who wear sweat pants in public have given up on life.
I feel the same way about young guys wearing pants way, WAY low. I hope I'm not considered an "America hater".
post #28 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

But in Troy's defense, at this point in time, it's more sociably acceptable to wear jeans when going out (i.e. to a restaurant) than sweat pants.

When sweat pants become 100% sociably acceptable as appropriate attire in decent public places, then you'll sound like George if you bad mouth it.

But as of right now, it's not exactly proper to wear sweat pants when going to Applebee's or Chili's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
I feel the same way about young guys wearing pants way, WAY low. I hope I'm not considered an "America hater".
not hating them is one thing...but to say "summoning Americans to soul-searching and repentance about the plague of that ubiquitous fabric, which is symptomatic of deep disorders in the national psyche." is another.

Them's pretty strong words against the American society. He may not exactly hate America, but he surely hates society...or should I say 'the "low class" society'.
post #29 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

I think he intensely dislikes many aspects of popular culture, some of which I agree with and some of which I don't agree with.
post #30 of 58

Re: Do you wear denim? George Will thinks you are a immature slob

I always wonder whether a 68 y/o conservative Washington columnist would approve of my outfit before I walk out of the house. The article is an amusing read but it's generating a surprising (and puzzling) amount of controversy here and elsewhere, some of it personal.

--
H
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