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2009 MLB Thread - Page 21

post #601 of 1171
6/22/09 at 7:19am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Yeah. I heard him say on the Red Sox Radio Network after the game that he didn't realize it was the ninth inning and a walk-off. That's not too cool. What else is he not paying attention to? I admit his defense looked pretty good during today's game. And a ninth inning walk-off? That's pretty good, too. But to admit you had no idea what was going on in the game when you were batting?
Mike,

I'm not a bit concerned. Green said he was at second base when he saw his teammates hovering around home plate. He thought the ball was going to be caught for an out, and yet he's at second base? That's hustle to me. And where the ball was going to end up was not all that clear at first -- the Pesky Pole is a bit tricky that way. Truth be told, I'd rather he be at second base on a 'sure out' (in his mind) rather than for him to assume he hit a home run. I commend his actions. To my way of thinking, he was paying attention to the things that needed to be paid attention to and not to the things that didn't need attention.

I love too that Green is hitting .293 with four home runs and twenty-five RBIs. I heard a stat yesterday that said the Sox are (I think) 30-11 with Green in the lineup. I think this might bode well for the team long-term.
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post #602 of 1171
6/22/09 at 8:14am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem
I heard a stat yesterday that said the Sox are (I think) 30-11 with Green in the lineup
Ah, but is Nick Green a positive influence, or does Julio Lugo's presence just hurt everybody that much?
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post #603 of 1171
6/22/09 at 10:52am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Seaver
Ah, but is Nick Green a positive influence, or does Julio Lugo's presence just hurt everybody that much?
An intriguing question to be sure.

Julio Lugo is the quintessential Boston Red Sox team player. He's head and shoulders a better player than Yaz, but a shade less a player than was Ted Williams.

I can post statistics to back this up if you wish.
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post #604 of 1171
6/22/09 at 10:53am
Thread Starter 

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem
I'm not a bit concerned. Green said he was at second base when he saw his teammates hovering around home plate. He thought the ball was going to be caught for an out, and yet he's at second base? That's hustle to me. And where the ball was going to end up was not all that clear at first -- the Pesky Pole is a bit tricky that way. Truth be told, I'd rather he be at second base on a 'sure out' (in his mind) rather than for him to assume he hit a home run. I commend his actions. To my way of thinking, he was paying attention to the things that needed to be paid attention to and not to the things that didn't need attention.

Scott: You are certainly not going to hear me ever complain about a player's hustle. But the impression I got was that he didn't know the situation he was in (inning, score, etc.)...which, frankly, I found hard to believe. But that's what he said--twice. It's one thing to run hard on a batted ball (something all players should do all the time anyway)...but another to say you didn't realize it was the ninth inning. That's all I'm saying. Seems weird to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Nicholls
Oh dear, I still am confused about baseball terminology. Is a "slug" a diminuative "slugger"?

C'mon, Dennis. You better than anyone should know the status of the slug in modern sports:



=====================

Something tells me TonyD is going to be very happy that the AL teams won't be back to Philadelphia for the rest of the regular season.
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post #605 of 1171
6/22/09 at 11:16am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Only if they have to keep playing the games at home.
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post #606 of 1171
6/22/09 at 11:49am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Scott: You are certainly not going to hear me ever complain about a player's hustle. But the impression I got was that he didn't know the situation he was in (inning, score, etc.)...which, frankly, I found hard to believe. But that's what he said--twice. It's one thing to run hard on a batted ball (something all players should do all the time anyway)...but another to say you didn't realize it was the ninth inning. That's all I'm saying. Seems weird to me.
Mike,

I see. If the 'ninth inning comment' is truly where his head was at, I might have to question that one. That does seem a bit odd.

Re: the Phillies--

Most teams (there are probably one or two exceptions) in MLB would die for the road record put together thus far by the Phillies -- 23-9? Are you kidding me? Then I look at what they've done at home. Very unusual, I think.
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post #607 of 1171
6/22/09 at 12:13pm
Thread Starter 

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem
He (Nick Green) thought the ball was going to be caught for an out, and yet he's at second base? That's hustle to me.

Instead of hustle, I'd call it playing the game the right way.

Something which David Ortiz did not do yesterday. Here's a guy struggling to climb over the Mendoza line in mid-June and he pops up (a mile high) to short-stop/third base (on a VERY windy day). Instead of standing on second base when the ball is allowed to drop to the ground untouched, he's looking in amazement from the vicinity of first base. THAT is bad baseball from a player who should know a lot better. And don't even get me started that he's posing after hitting homeruns.

People were making such a big deal about Mark Texeira running hard from first base to score on the dropped pop fly by Luis Castillo in that Met/Yankee game a week ago. He was simply doing what players are taught to do in those situations--for the very reason which presented itself! That is something that Ortiz would be smart to do himself. The guy doesn't even play in the field. RUN OUT the plays, David.

===================

I'll bite on the your stats which show Lugo to be a better player than Yaz. I know you can't mean it...but you must have a reason for saying it!
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post #608 of 1171
6/22/09 at 1:34pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Instead of hustle, I'd call it playing the game the right way.

Something which David Ortiz did not do yesterday. Here's a guy struggling to climb over the Mendoza line in mid-June and he pops up (a mile high) to short-stop/third base (on a VERY windy day). Instead of standing on second base when the ball is allowed to drop to the ground untouched, he's looking in amazement from the vicinity of first base. THAT is bad baseball from a player who should know a lot better. And don't even get me started that he's posing after hitting homeruns.

People were making such a big deal about Mark Texeira running hard from first base to score on the dropped pop fly by Luis Castillo in that Met/Yankee game a week ago. He was simply doing what players are taught to do in those situations--for the very reason which presented itself! That is something that Ortiz would be smart to do himself. The guy doesn't even play in the field. RUN OUT the plays, David.

===================

I'll bite on the your stats which show Lugo to be a better player than Yaz. I know you can't mean it...but you must have a reason for saying it!
Mike,

I've noticed that about Ortiz as well. And it does bother me -- a lot.

Sure, I can provide the stats. on Lugo vs. Yaz. May I make them up, or do they have to be historically accurate?

I didn't see any rule against levity every now and then. Me hopes it's okay.
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post #609 of 1171
6/22/09 at 2:41pm
Thread Starter 

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Aaaaah. Yer all talk, I tells ya!

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post #610 of 1171
6/22/09 at 5:01pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Aaaaah. Yer all talk, I tells ya!
Not to mention that Yaz is one of my favorite Red Sox players.
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post #611 of 1171
6/22/09 at 5:06pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Fehr to retire as head of baseball players’ union

I don't what this will mean for baseball in the future. But I can remember having a difficult time getting back into the sport after the '94 strike, and can understand why some people have stayed away since that time.
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post #612 of 1171
6/22/09 at 5:36pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter C
Fehr to retire as head of baseball players’ union

I don't what this will mean for baseball in the future. But I can remember having a difficult time getting back into the sport after the '94 strike, and can understand why some people have stayed away since that time.
I almost stayed away from the sport after Curt Flood. But somehow, my love for it just keeps coming back every year....
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post #613 of 1171
6/23/09 at 7:06am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

I figure Fehr is like Scott Boras - for the most part, he does his job extremely well, and most of us would absolutely want him defending our interests should they need defending. He miscalculated a bit where drug testing was concerned, initially valuing privacy over public perception, but it's his job to take the heat for matters like that. Without a Fehr, the owners would likely run roughshod over the players as is the case in the NFL, and I know I wouldn't want that.
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post #614 of 1171
6/23/09 at 11:44am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem
Sure, I can provide the stats. on Lugo vs. Yaz. May I make them up, or do they have to be historically accurate?

They have to be historically accurate, but you didn't say he was a better *baseball* player than Yaz. . .
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post #615 of 1171
6/23/09 at 5:12pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

AAHHH!
It's good to be home on the road.
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post #616 of 1171
6/23/09 at 8:13pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Silverman
They have to be historically accurate, but you didn't say he was a better *baseball* player than Yaz. . .
I actually did say that Lugo was a better *baseball* player than Yaz -- I just didn't post it as such on this Board.

The Sox got a big six-run eighth inning tonight against the Nationals. Bay and Ellsbury combined for eight hits. And ESPN reports that this was Ellsbury's first two triple game. And my man got a hit and an RBI as well.

And speaking of Nick Green:

"Boston SS Nick Green made the defensive play of the game, snagging a grounder near second base and tagging runner Cristian Guzman in one motion before making an acrobatic throw to first for the double play."



How about this tidbit (bolded):

"In their first regular season visit since 1971 -- when Boston great Ted Williams was managing the Washington Senators -- the Red Sox took the lead for good on Jason Varitek's flyball off Julian Tavarez (3-5) in the seventh inning. Manny Delcarmen (2-1) got the win in relief for the Red Sox, who have won 14 of 19 in June."

Boston Red Sox vs. Washington Nationals - Recap - June 23, 2009 - ESPN

Bay is really having a very good year. His three RBIs tonight bring him nearly to seventy for the season, behind only Pujols at this point. I hope he keeps this up (a la Hack Wilson and/or Hank Greenberg).

Tony,

Hey, the Phillies defeated the Rays handily tonight. Was this game six of the World Series? And the Yankees were shutout again. Hmmm.
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post #617 of 1171
6/24/09 at 8:27am
Thread Starter 

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem
How about this tidbit (bolded):

"In their first regular season visit since 1971 -- when Boston great Ted Williams was managing the Washington Senators -- the Red Sox took the lead for good on Jason Varitek's flyball off Julian Tavarez (3-5) in the seventh inning. Manny Delcarmen (2-1) got the win in relief for the Red Sox, who have won 14 of 19 in June."

Williams had many strengths and many weaknesses as a manager. But the highlighted section is really misleading for the casual reader given that the Washington franchise is completely different (different league, etc.) and the '71 franchise is still in operation elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem
And the Yankees were shutout again. Hmmm.

I had the opportunity to watch that entire game last night. The Yankees looked awful (and Kenny Singleton was in complete denial. On three separate occasions Yankee players hit routine fly outs and Singleton, each time, said it was the wind that held those balls in the park. ). They are in a pretty bad place right now. A-Rod is plummeting. The NY tabloids are reporting late night partying on days he's being rested for fatigue. The Yanks aren't getting ANY clutch hits. Their pitching is so-so and hurt. And their outfield is pretty bad. They'd be smart to unload Damon now while he's still got a small amount of value because of his bat.
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post #618 of 1171
6/24/09 at 9:12am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Williams had many strengths and many weaknesses as a manager. But the highlighted section is really misleading for the casual reader given that the Washington franchise is completely different (different league, etc.) and the '71 franchise is still in operation elsewhere.
Williams led the team to its first winning season. I have good memories of the Washington Senators, what with Brinkman, Howard, and McClain on the team. I didn't know at the time that McLain would have one of his worst years, however. But Frank Howard was a joy to behold at the plate. He hit forty-four home runs one year, and forty-five of them were against Boston.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
They'd be smart to unload Damon now while he's still got a small amount of value because of his bat.
They'd be even smarter to unload Mark Teixeira to the Red Sox.
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post #619 of 1171
6/24/09 at 12:23pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
A-Rod is plummeting. The NY tabloids are reporting late night partying on days he's being rested for fatigue.

That was awesome!!! Plus my former neighbor, a die-hard Stankee fan, was at his old place cleaning the driveway this morning, so I got to tell him about it.

On the other hand, I have been having serious nightmares about Jason Bay in pinstripes next year.
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post #620 of 1171
6/24/09 at 1:41pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Silverman
On the other hand, I have been having serious nightmares about Jason Bay in pinstripes next year.
I've been having thoughts of Papelbon playing for the Yankees -- esp. since he's on record recently as saying he wouldn't necessarily say no to an offer from New York after 2010. Jason Bay? Say it ain't so!
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post #621 of 1171
6/24/09 at 8:01pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Good to see Ortiz and Tek hit home runs tonight. And Papelbon picks up his 17th save. Nick Green dodged a broken bat tonight -- kind of a scary moment.

Looking around the league, most of the teams in the AL East won their games.

The Dodgers are being handled tonight by the ChiSox, and the Mets routed the Cardinals. The Rays also bounced back against the road-best Phillies. I was hoping for a Phillies sweep.
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post #622 of 1171
6/25/09 at 5:03am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

the phillies deserved that loss last night.

the load the bases on 3 straight walk and no outs, then Werth comes up,
swings AT THE FIRST PITCH and grounds into a double play.

He should have been pulled right out of the game for that.

Too bad coaches don't have the guts to do something like that anymore.

Oh I forgot, Jimmy rollins flips to second trying for a force to end the inning
instead of throwing to first with the slowest runner in the world Pat Burrell trying to get to first.

Runner is safe and the Rays score a bunch of runs.
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post #623 of 1171
6/25/09 at 6:25am
Thread Starter 

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Gee, Tony...

The Phils have really hit a tough patch here. They've won 2 of their last 10 and 4 of 14 in Interleague. The home record thing is bizarre altogether. Pretty strange, huh?
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post #624 of 1171
6/25/09 at 9:20am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
the phillies deserved that loss last night.

the load the bases on 3 straight walk and no outs, then Werth comes up,
swings AT THE FIRST PITCH and grounds into a double play.

He should have been pulled right out of the game for that.

Too bad coaches don't have the guts to do something like that anymore.

Oh I forgot, Jimmy rollins flips to second trying for a force to end the inning
instead of throwing to first with the slowest runner in the world Pat Burrell trying to get to first.

Runner is safe and the Rays score a bunch of runs.
I'm not worried about the Phillies. I'm sure they will do better at home soon.

Your post, though, reminded me of something. In High School, I got into a heated debate with my (at the time) best friend. He insisted that a batter gets credit for an RBI when he hits into a double play. I knew that he did not. But it's one of those quirky tenets of the game. Baseball has many of these, and IMO it makes the game all the more interesting.

Some others that come to mind (with varying degrees of quirkiness) are the infield fly rule (try explaining that to someone who does not know the game all that well); the ground rule triple (or three-base award); several ways a pitcher can balk; the twenty-three ways a man can get on first base; and the triple play without the ball touching a fielder (my personal favorite in the 'quirky' category).

There are many others. Please chime in if you have any favorites.
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post #625 of 1171
6/25/09 at 9:32am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
He insisted that a batter gets credit for an RBI when he hits into a double play.

It makes sense to me (that there is no RBI), as choosing the double play over trying to throw a guy out at home could be considered a fielder's choice.

I haven't heard of the ground rule triple...unless that is what it's called when a fielder throws his mitt at the ball?
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post #626 of 1171
6/25/09 at 9:45am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Perry
It makes sense to me (that there is no RBI), as choosing the double play over trying to throw a guy out at home could be considered a fielder's choice.
Brian,

Except that with a fielder's choice, the batter is credited with an RBI in many cases (assuming that a run has scored, and unless Rule 10.04(b) applies). And when hitting into a double play, the batter is never credited with an RBI.

Rule 10.04 (b): "Do not credit a run batted in when the batter grounds into a force double play or a reverse force double play."

At the time (High School), I was just repeating what I had heard numerous sportscasters say over the years. I think it may be because two outs are made by one batter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Perry
I haven't heard of the ground rule triple...unless that is what it's called when a fielder throws his mitt at the ball?
Yeah, that's why I was careful to include "three-base award" parenthetically.

"There are two ways that this can happen and you almost never see either at major league level. One, is if a player deliberately touches the ball with his hat or mask (ie, tries to catch it, for instance), or, two, if a player deliberately throws his glove at, and touches, a fair ball. Since neither of these corresponds to unique characteristics of the field it isn’t really a ground rule triple but rather a three-base award."

Rules and quirks -- The Hardball Times
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post #627 of 1171
6/25/09 at 9:49am
Thread Starter 

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

There are so many. Here's one:

Not being able to give an error on the back end of a double play--because you can't "assume it." I think you can assume it in many instances. It should be up to the discretion of the scorer.

If you didn't read Tim Kurkjian's book of a year or two ago "Is This a Great Game, Or What?", I highly recommend it for just such insights/stories.

There was also a book which came out years ago called "The Joy of Keeping Score." Terrific at explaining scoring, baseball's rules and many of the vagaries and inconsistencies of both.
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post #628 of 1171
6/25/09 at 8:42pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Rule 10.04 (b): "Do not credit a run batted in when the batter grounds into a force double play or a reverse force double play."

So how about this...

Bases loaded, nobody out. Batter flies out and all runners attempt to tag up. The runners at first and second are thrown out, with the third out occurring after the runner on third scores. I assume the batter would get an RBI, even though he hit into a triple play?
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post #629 of 1171
6/26/09 at 7:18am
Thread Starter 

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Perry
So how about this...

Bases loaded, nobody out. Batter flies out and all runners attempt to tag up. The runners at first and second are thrown out, with the third out occurring after the runner on third scores. I assume the batter would get an RBI, even though he hit into a triple play?

The logistics of that would be tough, I think...but I'd give the batter the RBI on a sac fly. It's not his fault that the baserunners on first and second are morons! And the rule seems specific about groundouts.

The flaw in the scenario is that all runners are tagging up but somehow two runners (at first and second) are thrown out. They would have to be horrific baserunning blunders (or injury) which would occur long after the run scored.

How about if--same scenario--and the runner at third tags but the runners at first & second don't think the ball's going to get caught and take off. The ball is caught in a dramatic fashion, runner at third leaves and scores. The outfielder throws the ball in to second and doubles off both of the runners. Still a horrific baserunning blunder not to go half-way and make sure the ball isn't caught. I'd still give the RBI to the batter. He did his job.
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post #630 of 1171
6/26/09 at 8:37am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Brian,

I love your scenario! Best answer? It would depend on the official scorer.

Seriously, I was trying to think of how it could occur. I think it could, but it would be highly implausible. Still, I think an RBI would have to be credited to the batter given the scenario playing out as you have it written, wouldn't it?

I also concur with Mike about the RBI on a sacrifice fly. {BTW, I wonder if the infield fly rule would be invoked? I suppose it would depend on the distance of the fly out. If invoked, that could throw a bit of a wrench into the play, I think.}
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