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2009 MLB Thread - Page 3

post #61 of 1171
4/14/09 at 1:58pm
Thread Starter 

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Did you see the play in question, Robert? Unless there's some history between those two (that might very well exist. I don't know), I'm surprised that one occurrence of up & in results in a suspension.

This article on mlb.com says the head of the umpiring crew didn't think there was intent. And Beckett is also emphatic about the situation.

Like I said before, I'm not sure why the Angels reacted so strongly.
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post #62 of 1171
4/14/09 at 2:23pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Okay...now I'm ticked off.

MLB has just suspended Josh Beckett six games for throwing high & tight to Bobby Abreu in the Sox/Angels series this weekend.

He wasn't even thrown out of the game!

Three different Angels were (including Mike Scoscia).

Put aside the fact that I'm due @ Fenway Saturday (Beckett's next scheduled start)...but that's crazy! He'll probaly appeal (and pitch Saturday)...but if you saw the play the umpire granted Abreu time just as Beckett was beginning his wind-up. I'm not even sure why the Angels were so apoplectic about the incident.
Mike,

Hopefully he will appeal and pitch Saturday. It's odd that this occurred as it did after-the-fact. I was very surprised that four Angels were ejected, but no BoSox (without regard to whether what Beckett did was right or wrong).

I think, and this is only speculation, that they were as apoplectic as they appeared to be because of the tensions that had been with the team since Adenhart's death. I don't know, obviously, but I think this had something to do with it.
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post #63 of 1171
4/14/09 at 3:44pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

A couple fun stats/firsts from Monday's games:

Jermaine Dye and Paul Konerko hit back-to-back HRs for the White Sox (the 300th for each in their careers)
Jody Gerut's leadoff HR at Citi Field was the first time a player hit a HR in the first regular-season at-bat to open a new stadium
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post #64 of 1171
4/14/09 at 7:50pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Did you see the play in question, Robert? Unless there's some history between those two (that might very well exist. I don't know), I'm surprised that one occurrence of up & in results in a suspension.

This article on mlb.com says the head of the umpiring crew didn't think there was intent. And Beckett is also emphatic about the situation.

Like I said before, I'm not sure why the Angels reacted so strongly.
Yes, I saw the play and I thought he was trying to send a message with that high pitch and Beckett has a big mouth and likes to talk crap. Secondly, I have zero respect for Joe West as an umpire.
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post #65 of 1171
4/14/09 at 8:00pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

The upming in that entire game was pure and utter crap!!
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post #66 of 1171
4/14/09 at 9:11pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Like I said before, I'm not sure why the Angels reacted so strongly.
I don't know if you've noticed, but Mike Scioscia takes every single little thing that doesn't go his way in a game like a personal affront. It's not quite as bad in the regular season as it is in the post-season (maybe he likes to play to the cameras), but if he's going to give the "did you see that? the umps hate us!" look after every borderline ball/strike call, he's going to have to go nuts at a ball up and in. I guess he sets the tone for the team.

Also, tonight's Sox/A's game is excruciating. And as much as I usually like Remy, can he shut up about the WBC? That doesn't exactly explain why everyone one else on the roster not named Youkilis sucks.
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post #67 of 1171
4/14/09 at 10:15pm
Thread Starter 

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
Yes, I saw the play and I thought he was trying to send a message with that high pitch and Beckett has a big mouth and likes to talk crap.

Well, I don't see how a message pitch earns someone a six-game suspension. And if having a big mouth and talking crap causes a suspension there would be a whole lot of ballplayers taking a lot of time off.

I'm the last guy who thinks anyone should be throwing at another player's head...but that was a split-second play as the ump was calling for time as Beckett was starting his delivery. And how Bob Watson figures he can determine a different intent days later and on another coast by watching TV pictures is beyond me.

Nothing happened before that play and nothing happened afterward to make anyone think there was some sort of subtext.

The only thing I thought Beckett did wrong was walk off the mound toward home plate to jaw with Abreu. He claims, however, he was trying to let Abreu know it was unintentional. My experience has been that most pitchers who throw a pitch to send a message won't talk about it in the media afterward.
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post #68 of 1171
4/15/09 at 5:50am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Well, I don't see how a message pitch earns someone a six-game suspension. And if having a big mouth and talking crap causes a suspension there would be a whole lot of ballplayers taking a lot of time off.

I'm the last guy who thinks anyone should be throwing at another player's head...but that was a split-second play as the ump was calling for time as Beckett was starting his delivery. And how Bob Watson figures he can determine a different intent days later and on another coast by watching TV pictures is beyond me.

Nothing happened before that play and nothing happened afterward to make anyone think there was some sort of subtext.

The only thing I thought Beckett did wrong was walk off the mound toward home plate to jaw with Abreu. He claims, however, he was trying to let Abreu know it was unintentional. My experience has been that most pitchers who throw a pitch to send a message won't talk about it in the media afterward.
No sympathy from me after Joba Chamberlain got suspended against your team and your Red Sox cried a river of tears. That same intent argument about Joba didn't prevent his suspension when he pleaded his case of unintentional. Also, it's funny how Beckett, who ran his mouth then is now pleading innocence while Youkulis is trying to explain Beckett's actions by saying things happen when he didn't do the same thing with Joba.
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post #69 of 1171
4/15/09 at 7:10am
Thread Starter 

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Robert: It seems like you're still hung up on the Joba suspension...because I'm not seeing much in common between the two incidents.
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post #70 of 1171
4/15/09 at 7:25am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Robert: It seems like you're still hung up on the Joba suspension...because I'm not seeing much in common between the two incidents.
I'm not hung up on anything as I applaud Bob Watson's actions.
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post #71 of 1171
4/15/09 at 8:50am
Thread Starter 

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

It's just that your rationale for supporting Watson's decision seems to be based on a completely unrelated incident that took place two seasons ago rather than on the actual incident in the Angels/Sox game.

One might draw the conclusion that you think Watson's decision is some sort of "payback" or "karma." That would be inappropriate on Watson's part, if there would be some sort of weird reason for it to be true.
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post #72 of 1171
4/15/09 at 9:14am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

The BoSox are off to a 2-6 start through eight games. Their pitching has been mediocre at best. Lester, Matsuzaka, and Wakefield are without a win yet. Hopefully Beckett and Penny will be relatively consistent, and two of the other three will be able to pick it up a notch or two. Matsuzaka gave up five runs in the first inning, and the Hose find themselves in last place at the moment.
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post #73 of 1171
4/15/09 at 10:07am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
It's just that your rationale for supporting Watson's decision seems to be based on a completely unrelated incident that took place two seasons ago rather than on the actual incident in the Angels/Sox game.

One might draw the conclusion that you think Watson's decision is some sort of "payback" or "karma." That would be inappropriate on Watson's part, if there would be some sort of weird reason for it to be true.
I don't know nor care why Watson made the decision he did, but in my opinion, based on how I view Beckett and what happened Saturday, he got what he deserved because I think he threw that pitch over Abreu's head on purpose.
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post #74 of 1171
4/15/09 at 12:10pm
Thread Starter 

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
I don't know nor care why Watson made the decision he did, but in my opinion, based on how I view Beckett and what happened Saturday, he got what he deserved because I think he threw that pitch over Abreu's head on purpose.

Gotcha.

I cannot argue your point that you think Beckett threw the pitch over Abreu's head on purpose...because neither one of us will ever know (unless he admits it). But I certainly respect your belief on that point. And, in my opinion, it actually makes for a much more spirited discussion.

But, on the other hand, I really care about why (and how) Bob Watson made that decision. This amounts to another situation where MLB is okay with taking control away from their own officials they place on the field-of-play. Both the home plate umpire and crew chief, in post-game interviews, said they didn't see any problem with Beckett's action. They went on to say they wouldn't even have given him a warning if the benches hadn't cleared.

As far as I know there was no other event in the game leading up to that moment to give any indication that Beckett was throwing a "purpose pitch." There has been no indication, in any of the post-game stories I have read that there has been any theoretical motivation as to why Beckett would have thrown at Abreu.

Between Questec, the use of instant replay and the commissioner's disciplinary office, more and more authority is being taken away from those charged with keeping order on-the-field--the umpires.

Even those who agree with replay (and even Questec) might also agree that having an individual overrule calls on the field of play--which is basically what Watson is doing here--is a far-reaching step.

I always refer to my favorite "worst call" in these discussions. Where was the commissioner's office to over-rule Chuck Knoblauch's phantom tag of Jose Offerman in 1999? Right where they should have been! Staying out of things! Even though that missed call still rankles me...I'd much rather have blown calls on the field than bad calls made after-the-fact by people who were nowhere near the field-of-play.
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post #75 of 1171
4/15/09 at 1:52pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

The Sox and A's are playing like they've got a plane to catch in Oakland - six innings in less than 1:15.

And not to jinx anything, but at this rate I'm about half an hour or so from feeling ridiculously happy for Tim Wakefield.
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post #76 of 1171
4/15/09 at 2:06pm
Thread Starter 

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

He's taken such games deep before. It would be so awesome for him.
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post #77 of 1171
4/15/09 at 4:10pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

I am thrilled that Wakefield had one of 'those' days -- where his knuckler had some zip, and pretty much stymied the opposition. The BoSox needed this one. Way to go Tim!
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post #78 of 1171
4/16/09 at 7:58am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

What will the reception be for Nomar when the A's visit Fenway later this season?

And does the AL look like the opposite of last season, from top to bottom, or more like bottom to top? Must be Bizarro World.
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post #79 of 1171
4/16/09 at 9:35am
Thread Starter 

Re: 2009 MLB Thread



If the shoe fit last year...

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post #80 of 1171
4/16/09 at 10:04am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter C
What will the reception be for Nomar when the A's visit Fenway later this season?
Assuming he travels with the team and isn't the DL...

It'll be huge. The CHBs and talk radio hosts will try to rile the fans up or act like he wasn't popular by the time he was traded away, but their job is to be jackasses. I've yet to meet a fan here who doesn't adore Nomar, and when Johnny Pesky's number was retired last fall, nothing in the pre-game ceremonies got a bigger cheer than a video message from Nomar wishing Pesky the best.

Trot Nixon got a big cheer a couple years ago, and I'm pretty sure Pedro Martinez did, too.
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post #81 of 1171
4/16/09 at 10:34am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

I guess as long as an ex-Red Sox is not a Yankee, they won't be booed.
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post #82 of 1171
4/16/09 at 10:43am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter C
I guess as long as an ex-Red Sox is not a Yankee, they won't be booed.
Which is precisely the way it should be, in a perfect world.
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post #83 of 1171
4/16/09 at 10:57am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
I don't know nor care why Watson made the decision he did, but in my opinion, based on how I view Beckett and what happened Saturday, he got what he deserved because I think he threw that pitch over Abreu's head on purpose.

so what if he did.
pitchers used to be allowed to control the game with inside pitches and pitches that had a meaning.
not anymore.
Beckett threw a pitch a foot away from Abreu's head, wasn't even close.
the mistake here was the umpire, they need to
stop giving batters time this late into the pitch.
It was Umpire's fault anything happened.


also Bob watson is a boob.

Pitchers get tossed and get warnings for throwing inside without ever hitting anyone. ridiculous
and watson gives out suspensions for the same.

It's a joke.

Bob Gibson

I think the problem starts because players run off the bench onto the field
everytime someone throws inside and the BATTER starts yelling at the pitcher.

The batter needs to be held to stricter rules on this and just like
hockey the first person who comes of the bench onto the field
needs to thrown out and have a serious suspension.

STAY OFF THE FIELD.
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post #84 of 1171
4/16/09 at 12:22pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Seaver
Assuming he travels with the team and isn't the DL...

It'll be huge. The CHBs and talk radio hosts will try to rile the fans up or act like he wasn't popular by the time he was traded away, but their job is to be jackasses. I've yet to meet a fan here who doesn't adore Nomar, and when Johnny Pesky's number was retired last fall, nothing in the pre-game ceremonies got a bigger cheer than a video message from Nomar wishing Pesky the best.

Trot Nixon got a big cheer a couple years ago, and I'm pretty sure Pedro Martinez did, too.
Reminds me of the reception Jim Thome got when he came to Philadelphia for interleague play the year he got traded to the White Sox. A massive standing ovation. Fans love great players and they don't generally hold a grudge when someone moves on late int heir carreer. (as long as they don't move on to a rival in their prime....)
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post #85 of 1171
4/16/09 at 1:55pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Hamm
Fans love great players and they don't generally hold a grudge when someone moves on late int heir carreer. (as long as they don't move on to a rival in their prime....)

And for a lot more money.
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post #86 of 1171
4/16/09 at 5:26pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Yeah, it defeinitely makes it worse when it's a rival team. It's like your girlfriend dumping you to go out with your worst enemy. It's almost like she's rubbing your nose in it...not cool!
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post #87 of 1171
4/18/09 at 2:00pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Huh? The Indians scored fifteen (15) runs on the Yankees in the top of the second inning before there were any outs. Okay, now ESPN shows that fourteen runs were scored in the top of the second, with one run home in the third. I know what I saw -- something must have been corrected. What is going on in this game?

BTW, Beckett is slated to pitch tonight, so as Mike said, he may have appealed the decision. Enjoy your time at the game, Mike.

Go BoSox!
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post #88 of 1171
4/18/09 at 7:32pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Zach Grienke..

20 IP.. ZERO runs.
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post #89 of 1171
4/18/09 at 8:41pm

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

I'm pleased that the BoSox won, and that Mike got to see it! Beckett got the win, and if it weren't for the two-run double, he might have looked a bit sharper. Papelbon picked up his fourth save.

And how about those Marlins? They're 10-1!
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post #90 of 1171
4/19/09 at 6:57am

Re: 2009 MLB Thread

Yeah, a 3 game winning streak for the Sox. Wooo! That's pretty amazing for a team with only 5 wins.

But it's finally good to see the Sox and Yanks climbing their way back up the standings where they should be
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