A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!] - Page 2

Re: A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!]

Ron - thanks for saying what needed to be said. WHV is a first class organization all the way and deserves to be treated as such.

When members have offered constructive criticism (in a professional way, WHV has listened and implemented as many as they could. Remember the days of snappers? Gone. Remember pre-released titles in box sets? Gone. During the chat there were questions about retaining original logos and offering standalone BD releases of classics (as opposed to deluxe $$$ editions) and both time WHV said they'd make Upper Mgmt aware of consumer concerns. How much more consumer friendly can you be?

During this chat the Warner reps indicated they know members by name. If that doesn't prove that they have a genuine interest in the thoughts of the membership I don't know what does.

There is a reason that WHV is perenially the HTF "Studio of the Year". Let's make them feel welcome.

Brian Ri - loved your post! Your two main paragraphs are spot on in my opinion.

Steve

Re: A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!]

Thank you, Ron, for this commentary. I, for one, feel incredibly lucky to have the chance to participate in Q&A with a studio.

I can identify with many people who have a pet title they are dying to see released and find themselves frustrated. And I have seen some titles that meant a lot to me ruined by shoddy work or shortcuts (not by Warner, though), which is also frustrating. But even if Warner Bros. occasionally doesn't do something right, they have done SO MUCH that goes above and beyond. I can't believe the amount of effort that went into the Superman and Blade Runner sets, and let's not forget the disc replacements for Superman - one because they decided that it was the "right thing to do" to remaster a disc to include a proper legacy soundtrack. I rarely find anyone who offers that level of customer service anymore.

As the person who brought up The Goonies, I want to apologize to anyone who feels I wasted their time. However, I will defend the fact that I asked specifically about deleted scenes, knowing that there would eventually be a Blu-ray. Sure, I have a decent DVD of the film, but there are still significant completed but cut scenes that could be pulled from the vault to enhance a Blu-ray release, so why not take the chance to plant the seed in the mind of the people who set these releases in motion.

Re: A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!]

I think we can all agree that suggesting that someone lied to you is inappropriate. However, should someone be able to suggest that WHV statements led to unfulfilled results? If not ...

I'm one of those that said just 'don't have these chats anymore.' Reading the couple threads on the aftermath just supports my viewpoint.

I see little benefit of putting WHV in the position of having to make vague answers that tend to irritate forum members. I see little benefit of putting WHV on the spot of commenting on a title that they are not prepared to comment on. I see no benefit of WHV discussing target dates that may change, making them look bad. I see no benefit of putting WHV in the position of potentially feeling disappointed about participating with HTF.

When someone questions why WHV is only putting out high price/deluxe editions of classic favorites (e.g. Casablanca) and wonders about the same for GWTW and The Wizard of Oz and the answer comes back that they will address it with "upper management" and you have George Feltenstein Senior Vice President of Catalog Marketing is in the room, doesn't that come across as (at the bare minimum) awkward? I mean if a S.V.P. is not upper management, what is he?

When three corporate guys say "Good question...that is a corporate issue...beyond our control. However, recent postings expressing your similar feelings have been noted and expressed to corporate." It reads like 'we would change it in a heartbeat, but Time Warner controls the shots around here.' This comes across as ... awkward for all involved.

Technically it is a 'live chat.' But the process of having WHV in their own offices huddling up for their collective answer from their SVP of Marketing and two publicity gentlemen while HTF forum members prepare to submit their questions upon their turn being called hardly seems truly live to me. In this day and age, a video over the Internet would be a huge step up and be a lot more interactive. However, that would mean that WHV could not huddle up for 'hey what are we going to say about that one' ... so my guess is that day will not be forthcoming.

As others have suggested, just seems like it might be better for all involved to just collect questions, submit them to WHV and they can comment only on what they want to comment on. This would eliminate putting WHV in an awkward spot and if they feel like throwing HTF new nuggets of info, all the better.

Re: A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!]

The idea of sending a list to Warner's would be a good idea. I don't think it would backfire, providing Warner's informs us that the info they are providing could change. When a film's release is pushed back of dropped, it's usually something that even Warner's was not anticipating.

WHV is only a one part of is company. Decisions can be made by those above that can effect what we see on the store shelves. I am sure that George Feltenstein would also be as disappointed if something he was working on was shelved. And to consider that he gets it from both ends.

There might be problems with sending a list to George Feltenstein, but the answers we wanted might have been revealed already if someone has asked them. We know that the Showboat collection is being worked on, but only because someone asked a question about the Ultra-Rez process. But other questions don't always reveal interesting details. I know you can't restrict what people ask, but being able to send a list to get an update would at least tell us where some projects are at.

I wanted someone to ask about Lon Chaney 2. Had this chat gone one for 3 hours we might have found out, but the 2 hours we did get had wasteful questions. Simply sending a list to Warner's, covering a few titles or collections missed in the chat would not be a big deal. After all, I would rather hear that Chaney is not coming out, then to sit around waiting for the collection. Simply knowing the status of a film collection goes a long way. Just consider that we are aware the gangster collection is no more. Are we disappointed, yes, but we know what to expect this fall or beyond.

Re: A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!]

Ron, I'm sorry WB was unhappy with the negative comments, there's really no excuse for it. I think one of the problems is that we're spoiled and some of us EXPECT these chats every year. I'll admit, I DON'T know the studio politics
that go on. I have no idea what has to happen in order to get a question answered. I've never been involved in any of the chats (don't even know how) but always looked forward to reading the transcripts. For me, it was like Christmas morning, ok Santa, here's my list, what are you gonna get me?

Usually all of my questions get answered but this year I noticed that no Mickey Rooney movies were mentioned and I've been DYING for an Andy Hardy set, I was just curious if any one had any info on that.

For years WB has done a bang up job on their releases and I've given them praises on a number of occasions. They truly listen to their fans and for that I'm grateful. I hope they do come back and also realize that ALL of us are passionate about our films (some more than others). I'm alot like Brian Ri, collect mostly golden age hollywood and most of my 500+ collection is WB releases. Thanks WB, your effort is most appreciated!

Re: A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!

Then you'll be pleased to know that a Blu-ray release was announced earlier this year - it's being released in a couple weeks, on April 7th. Amazon.com already has it for preorder, only $14.99 there. I'll be picking this one up as well.

Re: A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!]

I do think they should release Blu Ray Disc editions for Gone with the Wind, Casablanca and the Wizard of Oz... only because of the economy... I am lucky enough to have a decently secure job right now... but I have one friend who buys blu ray etc but has been laid off and hasn't bought a BD in months!

I know some people would be willing to buy titles like Wind and Wizard but the box sets are just too high for some in this climate... I liked the box set for Casablanca esp the size of the box and dimensions, however the new sets for Wizard and Wind seem so not great for the shelf but I could be wrong. The Woodstock one looks nifty though.

I know it was asked during the chat about disc only editions, and I would guess they would sell very well. Just hard on the wallet these days for some.

Re: A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!]

I stopped by a local Best Buy in West Los Angeles last night, and they literally had an entire top shelf of those Casablanca Blu-ray sets. They were priced at $54.99. I doubt they are flying off shelves at that price in this economy, nor can retailers be thrilled at those bulky boxes taking up all of that space for something that'll rarely sell.

Bottom line..... I believe Warner is shooting itself in the foot with these bulky collections. There's no reason why there shouldn't be a no-frills version for purchase.

Re: A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!]

Exactly. On another message board I summed up the future of studio release strategy as follows:

- New films will still be released on DVD as they have been the last several years, with all except the more indie, low distribution films also getting a BD release. Even that will become less and less common as time goes on and the BD market grows.

- The "evergreen" titles - the Gone with the Winds and Ben-Hurs - will get new releases on BD. If the previous DVDs are not up to snuff and the title is big enough it will get a new DVD release as well. This has already happened with the likes of Blade Runner and An American in Paris.

- Some "evergreen" catalog titles that have already made it to DVD will eventually get the BD release they need, but may have a concurrent new Special Edition DVD release passed up to entice people to move to the BD format. This has already happened with such titles as The Pelican Brief, and seems to be happening with the upcoming BD of Grumpy Old Men. Both titles had early DVD releases (1997-98) that are very poor releases by today's standard, but they will/may not be getting a new DVD release - only BD.

- The handful of A-list catalog titles that haven't seen a DVD release even at this stage of the format will have the red carpet treatment on both formats when the moment finally comes. However, the only title I can even think of that qualifies is The African Queen. Honestly, is there any other no-brainer title that isn't already available? (EDIT: I thought of The Magnificent Ambersons, and even then it might be hard to argue it's a A release and not a B).

- Of the remaining unreleased catalog titles, perhaps up to 10% will see a traditional release on DVD, with probably only a handful getting a BD release until much later in the format's lifespan. These will mostly be titles that are easier to promote with some theme or new-release tie in - horror cult films, for example, which no matter how small the title always find a buying audience.

- The remaining 90% of catalog titles will be available only through the on demand business model, primarily because they are only cost effective to make available if made when the order is received.

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In retrospect, my 10/90 ratio of DVD/DVD on Demand may be off, but overall I'd say I'm still confident in my analysis.

Re: A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!]

The bit about Grumpy Old Men is an interesting one IF they don't issue a new SD release.

Catalog title should be released in DVD as long as there is a willing market for it and the studio would be dumb not to release it as such. It's really quite simple, the studio gets ALL of the revenue from the first two week of sale on a new video (i.e. new UPC). Therefore the studio that is releasing a hi-def version will release its DVD equivalent, slap on a new cover (if not more) thus getting a new UPC and a higher revenue stream. The problem is when the above is not the case.

The studio may have concluded or retailers have simply told them that they won't be carrying a new UPC SD release of Grumpy Old Men. This could make a lot of sense for retailers that have seen a title at a low price point for a long time on their shelves. Fundamentally, this is a believe that a new UPC wouldn't do much business (three week in and beyond) at a price point that would attract consumers and give them more revenue than the old DVD is generating. Or simply, the studio's own analysis has indicated that draining the supply chain of the old title (and thus suffering stock-outs), cost of returns, etc. doesn't provide the break even point that would warrant the action.

Re: A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!

Pre-submitting wanted titles is one solution, but we have to understand that WHV won't be able to answer every inquiry about every film. That's just the nature of the limited time available on a chat. The advantage of "pre-submitting" is that the folks at Warner would be able to give accurate release status upfront and then proceed to the rest of the chat. It saves time and could give us a lot of information in a timlier fashion.

Re: A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!]

All great points.

There is a slight window of hope for these titles on DVD as the remastered versions, as in the chat Warner mentioned a "double features" program. One would presume titles like The Pelican Brief/A Time to Kill and Grumpy Old Men/Grumpier Old Men would be a part of this program.

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In regards to this later chat and the idea of submitting questions before hand, I'd like to mention one of the things I like about these chats goes beyond the "is this title coming" dominance of the questions. Learning more about marketing strategies, restoration processes, and the home video industry business in general is a fun part of these chats now and then, too.

Re: A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!]

Overstock on a title in the box set may or may not have prevented best Buy to do orders for BD disc only editions of An American In Paris, Gigi or FOXs South Pacific, as well as other more classic catalog WB titles. Looks like they only stock it online but none of those titles are stocked in stores. I just hope sales don't suffer because they don't stock a couple copies in stores for browsers to buy or someone like myself who doesn't usually pre-order a new release for overwelming fear I won't have it on the release date. I usually pay higher prices for sure, but I can't help it.

I just hope some GOOD changes occur to offer disc only editions for WIZARD- WIND, and CASABLANCA... I did buy Casablanca the day it was released the BOX set looked amazing but the shape was really perfect to sit on a shelf where as the Wizard ones and Gone seem so long and not great for the shelf I hope inside the sets they contain the film in a standard BD case also.

Re: A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!]

I certainly hope Warner Brothers knows I'm very willing to purchase more Errol Flynn films on DVD! Although I haven't picked up the Western Collection yet. I don't care which titles in his filmography are released, I'll buy them regardless.

Re: A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!

Me too. Although OBJECTIVE, BURMA!, DAWN PATROL and DIVE BOMBER are out, there are still enough films left for a wartime themed Flynn box set: DESPERATE JOURNEY, EDGE OF DARKNESS, NORTHERN PURSUIT and UNCERTAIN GLORY.

Re: A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!]

Any news, whether there'll be another chat with Warner this year?

And by the way, wouldn't it be great to have a permanent platform to communicate with the great guys from Warner, like a special thread, where the user can ask questions and some of these questions will be send to Warner frequently, like every month or every two month?

This will lead to a constant information flow, if Warner accepts, and it'll be a great thing for both sides: we, the consumers, can ask for titles or some facts about the Archive program and Warner stays directly in contact with the customer and it's a nice way of market research, too.

Re: A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!]

A "permanent platform" would be great, but it would have to be constantly moderated to avoid it becoming a forum for the kind of intemperate remarks that followed the last Warner chat.

It shows forumites are passionate about discs that are both versatile and digital, but I can imagine it could get a little scary for Studio suits who usually have feedback filtered for them by PR companies.

Re: A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!]

Re: A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!]

Hello, I'm new, and I decided to start off by taking the advice above.
Please allow me to introduce myself.

In regard to the useful info. below, my problem is I own more than half in the box as single DVDs; so, it is not economic to buy the whole box...as tempting as it is to get the ones I'm missing.


More Harlow on DVD Now! - Red Dust, Bombshell, Hold Your Man, Saratoga, The Iron Man, Goldie, The Secret Six, Beast of the City, Three Wise Girls, Reckless, Personal Property, Riff-raff, Suzy & Girl from Missouri

Re: A few thoughts about...THE WARNER CHAT [Everyone on this forum should read this!]

I'm very late to this thread, so please forgive me.

Ron is 100% correct. That Warner comes to the table so frequently here is nothing short of miraculous, and I applaud them for it. At the same time, they are in a very competetive business in tough economic times, and deserve the right to play their cards close to the vest.

The only thing I can compare it to is Criterion. Laserdisc collectors saw their titles change street date so many times, we often wondered if they were ever going to come out at all - some were even withdrawn after release (Prince Of Tides comes to mind). You have no idea how long we awaited Criterion's pinnacle modern release, Brazil, and when it finally saw the light of day, it was worth every penny and every pushback.

It is the entertainment BUSINESS. They don't owe us anything. That they are able to put forth the effort to bring us both the best of the best, and the unpolished gems, more than any other studio would dare consider, speaks volumes.

When the gang comes to us for a scheduled visit, they are guests, just as we are as members on the forum. Treat them like such, just as you would expect the membership to treat you. I for one welcome their next visit, if we haven't metaphorically slammed the door on their butts after they brought the coffee and donuts.

Any news on this point? Would be nice to have the chance to talk with them again.

I'm not sure what the point of a chat would be now.  Warner has made it clear that they have given up on releasing classic films other than on burned DVRs.  Mr. Feltenstein said as much in the recent Maclean's article (“most of the studios have pretty much said ‘Screw it, we’re out of here, we’re not going to do this.’ ”).  Other than six or seven Blu-ray upgrades of their best selling catalog titles over the next two years, I don't think they've got much planned.  A chat would only lead to disappointment.  I know that expressing disappointment in Warner, no matter how measured or polite, is frowned upon here, but there it is.

Yep, and because of this, they're working on a next Errol Flynn Set for next year, which was confirmed two/three weeks ago over at the digitalbits. ;)

Jeff is exaggerating and mis-reading the Feltenstein statements.  Warner has slowed their release of catalog product on mass-produced DVDs, but they have certainly not stopped.  They have two box sets coming out on October 6th: Karloff & Lugosi Horror Classics and TCM Spotlight: Esther Williams Vol. 2  and more plans for months to come.  When the subject article identifies Feltenstein, it refers to him as: "George Feltenstein, a senior vice-president at Warner Home Video (which still has some classics scheduled)".

Regards,

Putting aside the current trickle of titles on the schedule, if I were Warner, I sure wouldn't want to have to justify why each and every title found it's way into the Archive rather than get the full treatment.  You know that's how this would go.  They would be on the defensive from the get-go and it wouldn't let up.  Beyond that, I'm not sure what they have to talk about.  They were really pushing the new Ninja Turtles release in the last chat and I just read a review saying it was simply a repackaging of the old discs.  I just don't see another chat going particularly well at this point in time.

I think they could easily answer an Archive vs mass produced justification question in general terms.  They would also now potentially have two-tiered answers saying whether or not certain requests might at least get consideration for Archive treatment if not a full fledged retail release.

Also, the Ninja Turtles release was a re-package on SD DVD, but three out of four titles were new to BD.