*** Official KNOWING Discussion Thread

re: *** Official KNOWING Discussion Thread

Justin,

Although, I'm a believer, I'm not well versed Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show) so when said moment happened, it hit me hard as to what the film was really about.

But here's the issue I'm having with the film at the moment...the nature of how the Whisper People are presented, if you buy what they truly are in the end of the film. Why are they presented this way in the film, in terms of tone?

The other issue(s) of the film that I keep coming back to is the numbers and the children...they are the McGuffin of the piece but they kind of don't have a true purpose...or am I overthinking their importance? And why these two children?

re: *** Official KNOWING Discussion Thread

Someone on the Chud boards pointed this out - I won't delve into spoiler territory, but there is a reason a certain picture in a certain trailer home mentions a verse from the book of Ezekiel - read through that book and you will find tons of spoilers for this movie, as well as some filling in between the lines of some of the aspects of the plot.

I had a feeling the generic aspect of I, Robot was not Proyas fault - he has gone on record, like many directors, as describing the head of that studio, Tom Rothman, meddling with it like he does every major picture they do. The production of Wolverine has been littered with stories like that. He also said working with Summit was a pleasure, so I had a feeling that had given him pretty free reign, and it shows.

As for the final sequence, I agree it's Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

re: *** Official KNOWING Review Thread

the movie sounds interesting, i am going to watch it this weeke

re: *** Official KNOWING Discussion Thread

I can't say I agree with this. Hammering the point home would have undermined the very delicately laid subtext. I loved that the aliens/angels were presented as ambiguous throughout the entire film. I'm not sure I've ever seen this kind of story married to the iconography of the horror genre. And I'm not talking about religion and horror (see Frailty) or aliens and horror (see countless):

The aliens are gentle and non-violent, but they are not exactly benevolent. The scene in the clearing presents sort of a Calvinist argument: all men are not created equal; your salvation or condemnation is prewritten from before you are born. Clearly Caleb and Abby are more special than all of the rest of us. They have free will (they both had to choose for themselves to go with the aliens) but it was predestined that they would choose to go. The aliens made sure they would be in that field at the right time. Nicholas Cage figured the whole thing out, pieced together the mystery and generally proved himself to be the smartest man on the planet (even if he did need to look at the instruction manual for his revolver). But he still wasn't as special as two grade schoolers whose greatest responsibility consisted of staying at home. The alien agenda is definitely an Old Testament-style God.

The most impressive performance in movie came from Lara Robinson, who played both Lucinda as a child in the opening scene and Abby through the latter half of the film. We've seen lot of creepy paranormal girls in movies the last decade or two, so it was fascinating to see the subtle different with Lucinda. Robinson didn't play her as malicious, creepy or impenetrable. She player his as a little girl terrified 24/7 because she knows all of the horrible things in the world and she doesn't have the capacity to deal with it. And then you wouldn't know that Abby is the same actress, because she gives a completely different vibe as a very normal-seeming and generally happy girl. And then the moment at the end with her and Caleb dressed in white on Eden, she carried herself with a regal serenity that was about as far as you can get from Lucinda. I'm sure a lot of that is down to Proyas's direction and Duggan's cinematography. But still, I was really impressed.

And you're either a Nicholas Cage fan or your not. I most definitely am, so seeing him headline this was a tree. His performance reminded me of his work in National Treasure and The Family Man in just about equal measures. Rose Byrne has changed a lot since her role as a handmaiden in Attack of the Clones. It's the kind of role Jennifer Connolly likes to take, but I found Byrne a lot more plausible than Connolly is.

The final sequence was to the spiritual what the final sequence in 2001 is to the scientific. It's the part that pulls heavily at making this a four-star movie for me instead of the really strong 3 that it is.

My second biblical-level origin story in two days. Both taking place at the end of the world. What fantastic time for science fiction again.

Re: *** Official KNOWING Discussion Thread

Justin,

Thanks. I think I'm going again sometime next week because I'm still thinking about this damn film.

Re: *** Official KNOWING Discussion Thread

Also this was Alex Proyas's first film shot with digital cameras (ironically, Summit Entertainment doesn't release films digitally). The cameras used capture images in 4k+ or slightly greater than the functional resolution of 35mm film. It's the first digitally shot movie where I never suspected it was digital.

Re: *** Official KNOWING Discussion Thread

I just saw it and this movie was awesome. For one thing, so many movies like this, somehow the hero finds a way to stop or avert the main disaster that seems destined to happen. Kudos that he did not do that in this film.

Re: *** Official KNOWING Discussion Thread

One thing that struck me thinking about this film today: if the aliens are surrogates for angels, then that kind of makes Lucinda, Caleb and Abby all prophets.

I know this is old but the reason the kids were the ones chosen was because of their extensive knowledge on animals. Both the children watched documentaries and hours of the discovery channel, etc. Cage followed and met the girls at that museum while they were in the animal section. I assume the other kids taken from around the world specialized in different areas so that a new civilization could be created based on the collective knowledge of the chosen ones. 

Interesting observation on the connection to animals, although the only thing that ties Abby to animals IIRC is that they met her and her mom at the aquarium. I also don't think any other kids were taken; the other pods we saw rising from the earth moments before impact were collecting the life forms not found near Caleb and Abby. In other words, all of the space pods collectively equate to one Noah's Arc. If more than the two kids were taken, it sort of upsets the parallels to Adam and Eve at the end with the Tree of Life.

Just watched this and loved it, from beginning to end.  i was worried at one point that it was going to end up being another tedious parable about CO2 emissions and our failing stewardship of the earth, so i was enormously relieved when it wasn't. and i was quite frankly amazed that proyas managed to make the religion cum extraterrestrial angle work as elegantly as he did.

i think that the aliens' choice of which children to save had to do with genetic and social engineering: they wanted to ensure that the progenitors of the new human race shared their own genetic predisposition toward telepathy, presumably because when that gift matures it enables a degree of fellow-feeling and empathy that is otherwise difficult to achieve (imagine how much less inclined to anger and pettiness we'd be if we actually felt what others felt in any given situation, and also knew exactly what they were thinking), and the aliens wanted to maximize the possibility that, this time around, we end up living in peace with one another.

absolutely loved the portrayal of the end of the world, too - i'm tired of bombs and tidal waves and alien death-beams...nice to see everything undone by a lash of fire from the sun.

as an aside, while i understand the point of describing it the way the film did, the philosophical doctrine of determinism is not that things happen for a reason, but only that they couldn't have happened differently. things only happen for a reason if there is a reasoner using those things to bring about some end. of course, determinism is compatible with the idea that god (or someone else) uses deterministic means to achieve his ends, but it's also compatible with the atheistic idea that the universe is without an ultimate source, ground, or guide.

I think it depends if you view the revelation of the film as aliens with biblical iconography or God with alien iconography. I've come around to the interpretation that Caleb and Abby were chosen because they love animals and had become knowledgeable about them, and so would be careful stewards much like Noah and his family on the original ark. For they reason, they were predestined by God to be prophets, and everything else -- including Lucinda's prophecy -- is a reflection of that. I don't believe, in other words, that the telepathy is a two way radio, or that Abby and Caleb can hear each other's thoughts.

well, i certainly agree that the kids' telepathic sensitivity is very primitive, but i understood that the aliens were selecting for the presence of the telepathic gene-sequence in their DNA in an attempt to maximize the chance that the telepathy will develop and improve in their descendants over the next thousands of years, and that the race that abby and caleb birth will end up like the aliens themselves.

what kind of leaves me cold about the love-of-animals angle is that (A) the kids don't really show any signs of loving animals - they seem just to know a lot about them; (B) selecting based on a love of animals leaves the requirement of telepathic sensitivity unexplained: all sorts of kids love animals, not to mention the thousands of adults the world over who give their very lives for the sake of animals; and (C) loving animals as a child bears almost no relation to what kind of steward one will be when one becomes an adult.

I don't feel that Caleb and Abby were the only two humans saved.  Regardless of aliens/god at the heart of the relocation, you cannot perpetuate a species with just two and that would be by god's design if you believe in a god.  In the end I took it that the numbers were what it took to get Nick Cage's character to get Caleb at the right place at the right time.  Other human's would have had other signs or influences to get them where they needed to be.

If the movie was trying to show a Genesis/Noah's arc tale where only two humans were saved then I am disappointed it was just a religious piece and not strong science fiction since two cannot perpetuate a species in this god created universe.  This could be what they were going for because Nick Cage's father had fatalism as his belief.  "When it's my time, it's my time" or "God willing" type beliefs.  I feel the movie missed a great opportunity to either explore the whole concept that events can be predicted, which could use the theory if you had infinite knowledge you could calculate all actual outcomes instead of chaos theory that says regardless you cannot predict the future.  Or the movie could have explored how the whisper people were influencing many different people around the Earth to get them where they needed to be right before the end.  Something along the lines of Signs.

I probably won't rewatch this one because it fails to explore some very interesting concepts that it presents.  It provides no indication what all those ships were carrying, which would seem to be a the crux what was really going on outside of the characters we see on film.

I'm not the type of person that wants everything in a film telegraphed. But I do agree somewhat with this point. To me, it was one of those twists that just came too out of left field, pretty much to the point of where the ending could have been anything the writers wanted to retro-fit in there because there were no rules or significant clues in the story. To me, the best films of this type are the ones that provide all the clues, but manage to distract you enough where it still comes as a surprise. Take "The Sixth Sense" for example. That movie gave you all the relevant clues to the ending, but distracted you enough where you still did not see it coming. You actually feel kind of angry in a good way where you kind of say to yourself "how did I not see it" Hell YOU WATCHED BRUCE WILLIS GET SHOT IN THE FIRST SCENE OF THE FILM AND STILL DID NOT SEE IT COMING! Another example (and it does seem kind of weird) is "Die Hard 2" in one of the first scenes of that film, the bad guys mention that the was one last minute replacement on the team. At the time, it just seems like a throwaway line, but later in the film one of the guys on Major Grant's team mentioned that he was new on the team because the last guy got appendicitis. So, it's a very subtle clue, but it's enough so that an astute viewer could pick up on it.

I had the same problem with "Vanilla Sky" where the twist of that movie could have been anything. In a similar respect, I was disappointed with "Lost" somewhat, which is a show I enjoy a lot because:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show) That being said, there were some things about the film to like. There were some ballsy elements such as making the viewer think the deadly solar flare had occurred, but then actually bringing on the real one that pretty much destroyed Earth. Also that they did kill off Diana as had been predicted. I did also like how the final disaster avoided the cliche in so many similar films of how it was all Man's doing and just made it a completely unavoidable natural event.

What was the other one?


I was surprised to read this.  I watched this on Blu-ray Saturday night and didn't really think about the medium on which it was shot.  I just enjoyed the visuals and got involved in the storytelling.  That's a good thing.

Got my UK BD today. PQ is pretty good I would say 8/10. Stunning razor sharp detail & accurate colour rendering. Audio to me is 8/10 as not really much more than a regular std big budget action soundscape. Extras are pretty poor however (1 x EPK style doc, 1 x scientist(s) doc which is all what would/could happen & pretty silly, Director commentary, TV spots & Trailer). No Nic Cage anywhere so he is obviously not supporting this movie for the home market release for some reason!! Please do not look at the extra's or show them to anyone who has not seen the movie first as they pretty much spoil everything and your enjoyment will be greatly diminshed!!

Movie is very intense on BD in several places!!! not suited to younger viewers at all I would say the UK certificate of 15 is about right.

On further reflection I would say this is still a highly enjoyable but deepy flawed mystery/action/sci-fi movie but at least the BD gives an overall strong presentation which will certainly make new viewers take notice of what is happening on screen!!!

Paul, official review threads are for reviews only. Comments such as the above belong in the official discussion thread, which is where I have moved it. (Generally, non-review posts are simply deleted.)

Edited by Michael Reuben - 8/1/2009 at 04:13 am GMT

 "Banal:  Lacking freshness or originality."  Seen a lot of movies where the protagonist is trying to stop disasters decoded from a set of numbers, have you?

In the movie Knowing why the rabbits? How many sets of children were deposited on the new planet?

are the rabbits pets, a source of protein?? Many spaceships took off simultaneously with our two young heroes and many ships were seen at different spots on the new planet far from the two we saw. Does this mean many pairs were deposited to colonize the new planet?

I think the rabbits were just there for lazy symbolism short-hand -- the two kids are supposed to grow up and boink "like bunnies" to repopulate. The visual short-hand was just as lazy as the Eden shot at the end with the Tree. I was so disappointed with Proyas, that he resorted to other people's symbolism rather than invent his own. Dreadful.

Just watched this. I enjoyed it for what it was. I'm not sure why the warnings were so cryptic other than it created a mystery for Cage's character to solve. I also thought it was stupid that he was living in a falling down house. That seemed hit-me-over-the-head symbolism for the decaying state of his life or some other nonsense. Either explain it or have him live in a normal house.

I'm puzzled that so many seem confused about how many children were taken. Caleb says specifically that only those who hear the call can go. When we see multiple spaceships in the next scene it's pretty obvious that many survivors have been rescued.

That said, I think Greg Bear should sue whoever wrote this. Read The Forge of God to know what I'm talking about.