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Warner Archive Discussion Thread (FEEDBACK) - Page 98

post #2911 of 3526
11/2/09 at 5:52am


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Cashill View Post

"Double" or "triple" the price? Yes, minus coupons they are $19.95--but are most pressed DVDs $6.50 or $10 when released? I don't think so.
For new movies no, but I think for comparable titles that used to be released in the various Warner box sets, yes. It was quite common to pay less than $8 per movie. Also, with those retail boxes one could wait just a short while for sales, like the DeepDiscount 20% off sale or Amazon sales and pay even less.

With the MOD, there is less opportunity for bargains.
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post #2912 of 3526
11/2/09 at 7:16am
Livius, there are over 2,900 responses to the original post. Of course, everyone is entitled to express their opinion and their concerns regarding the Warners program. And someone who states their disapproval of the Archives program has a legitimate complaint. When they announce their "concerns" a second time to reiterate their point fine. A third time? Why not? But when one gives a fourth and fifth and sixth and ...... well, you get the picture ..... it changes from concerns and complaints to tiresome bashing. We got it the first three times! Do those naysayers think that by constantly whi ..... expressing their concerns that Warners will tuck the program away and give us bundles of pressed DVDs again? But consistently using words like "public domain" quality and "bootlegs" to describe Warners program goes beyond legitimate concerns to ludicrous bashing.
Edited by Thomas T - 11/2/09 at 8:55am
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post #2913 of 3526
11/2/09 at 7:59am
Well said, Thomas T ! ! ! 

Let me add one other historical observation re 'remastering.'  I've been a collector since my first VHS machine back in 1978--the term seems to have no precise definition; video producers (VHS, Beta, SVHS, CED, LD & DVD--and I assume variations of hi-def) roll out the term ANY TIME they reintroduce the slightest quality upgrade or extra feature. It's always been, and continues to be, a buyer beware situation.

Also, some of our fellow posters conveniently forget the issues of copyrights and licensing; those who control these issues are understandingly in the business of making money, so we as potential buyers need to tell them what we'll buy, not gripe about what we won't buy, something they'll figure out for themselves. Warners sure caught on quickly way back when the marketplace told them $89 for VHS wouldn't fly.

I completed the recent Archive survey, used the 10% coupon and will buy selectively until it becomes more apparent what forms of better pricing they come up with for bona fide collectors finding their offerings attractive.
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post #2914 of 3526
11/2/09 at 8:01am
I can only comment on the single Archive purchase that I bought which was the Barker Tarzan set.  imo, can't complain, they're better than unofficial or PD releases.

I do agree with many here about the price point for DVD-R's though.  Maybe the price will drop as time moves on.
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post #2915 of 3526
11/2/09 at 11:16am
I don't think most people will be happy untill wanters makes fresh transfers on everything and lowers the price to $5! :D
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post #2916 of 3526
11/2/09 at 11:20am


Quote:
Originally Posted by DeWilson View Post

I don't think most people will be happy untill wanters makes fresh transfers on everything and lowers the price to $5! :D

Nah, I'm happy when this is fulfilled: "This DOES NOT replace our retail initiatives. THEY REMAIN FULL SPEED AHEAD..."
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post #2917 of 3526
11/2/09 at 12:12pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Willis View Post

I can only comment on the single Archive purchase that I bought which was the Barker Tarzan set.  imo, can't complain, they're better than unofficial or PD releases.

I do agree with many here about the price point for DVD-R's though.  Maybe the price will drop as time moves on.

My experience is similar to Jeff's in that my only purchase so far is the Barker Tarzan set. And even then I waited for Jeff to buy it first and give it the thumbs up. Thanks Jeff

As far as video goes, to my eyes the Barker DVDs are of similar video quality of the pressed Weissmuller sets. So while they aren't cleaned up in anyway, if the film elements are in good shape then it can be a decent release. There is probably more potential for some PD quality releases, but a little research and checking reviews should help in making good decisions.

As far as price goes, I bought the Barkers as a set and with a coupon so I averaged about $8 a film. While I know we use to buy DVDs for $20 a piece, most of the pressed releases in the same category as the archives have generally been available for under $10 a piece in the recent past and even less when bundled in sets. It is hard to go back to those old pricing scheme's once you've gotten use to less.

As far as DVD-R's go, the jury is out as to their longevity. Personally, I've had DVD-R's I made for my kids go bad after a few years and it isn't because they abuse them, but just that they have worn out in a way (freezing, skipping, pixelating) from lots of use. I use high quality blanks and burn at slow speeds (which I found makes them last longer). Unfortunately, we just don't know how Warners burns these and it is still too soon in the process to know if they will go bad and when. I like to feel confident that my purchases will last up to 30 years of periodic viewing.

So I do believe the program has merit for titles that would have otherwise have had no release. And it is hard to know for sure how much impact this program has had on the decline of vintage pressed releases (they may have declined anyways).

Personally, these releases are a bit of a gamble for me because I am unfamilar with the majority of the titles. That is why I liked the multi-DVD pressed sets from the past (fiml noir, gansters)  because at an average of $4 - $6 a piece I could experiment more. I won't gamble on a title @ $20 but I will pay more if it is a known commodity for me (I spent similar for some criterion and kino releases).

So all in all, I would say the program has value to those who have a strong understanding of lesser known releases, know what they want, have the means to pay a slightly more inflated price, and just want to see some of their favorite films released. Even if their longevity may be in question.

However, I don't think it is as friendly a program when it comes to promoting these films to less knowledgeable viewers wishing to expand their horizons since the per disk cost makes it more difficult to take chances.  Too many obscure titles and if they may not last, renting might suffice.
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post #2918 of 3526
11/2/09 at 1:26pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas T View Post

. When they announce their "concerns" a second time to reiterate their point fine. A third time? Why not? But when one gives a fourth and fifth and sixth and ...... well, you get the picture ..... it changes from concerns and complaints to tiresome bashing. We got it the first three times!
Which of course begs  the question: Why on Earth are you reading past the third post if it offends you so much?  Last time I checked, being a member of the HTF does not require you to read every single post in a thread.  A novel approach which does indeed work is to gauge the tenor of a perspective by the beginning of a post and then move on if said indication does not interest you.  Try it and I guarantee you a mostly whine free experience and a easy way to avoid all subsequent bashing of the alleged bashers!

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post #2919 of 3526
11/2/09 at 2:59pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcoBiscotti View Post

The fact that non-progressive transfers are being sold possibly irks me the most though. Especially when such issues could be solved using free software on my dell laptop at home!

I'm pretty sure that the titles have all been progressive (outside the initial launch titles).
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post #2920 of 3526
11/2/09 at 5:07pm
I have 50 of the Archive titles to date and have watched about half of them so far.  Other than a couple of 1930s titles that were made from pretty rough source material, I don't really have any complaints.  Among the titles in my most recent order were color/widescreen westerns: THE BADLANDERS, THE SHEEPMAN, and TRIBUTE TO A BADMAN.  They look wonderful---as good as any DVDs of films from that period from any manufacturer in my opinion.  I'm watching them upconverted from a Sony Blu-ray player on a 65" Toshiba DLP Hi-Def monitor.
 
Those who say these do not look professional simply don't know what they're talking about.
Get the best deal you can, and if you still can't handle the price, you'll just have to do without.  As for the gentleman who wants a product that will last 30 years, check back in 30 years and I'll let you know how they hold up.  Maybe by then you'll be ready to take the plunge.
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post #2921 of 3526
11/2/09 at 5:14pm
"So all in all, I would say the program has value to those who have a strong understanding of lesser known releases, know what they want, have the means to pay a slightly more inflated price, and just want to see some of their favorite films released. Even if their longevity may be in question.

However, I don't think it is as friendly a program when it comes to promoting these films to less knowledgeable viewers wishing to expand their horizons since the per disk cost makes it more difficult to take chances.  Too many obscure titles and if they may not last, renting might suffice."

Very sensibly put. And I agree that Warner could do a much better job promoting these films. 

"Other than a couple of 1930s titles that were made from pretty rough source material, I don't really have any complaints."

Me, neither!


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post #2922 of 3526
11/2/09 at 5:25pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Kuhns View Post

As for the gentleman who wants a product that will last 30 years, check back in 30 years and I'll let you know how they hold up.  Maybe by then you'll be ready to take the plunge.

You might have noticed that I already dipped my toes in the water so to speak and bought one set. I'm not adverse to buying some more under the right conditions, but I won't buy as heavily as I do pressed disks for the reasons stated. If there are any issues with DVD-R's and how Warner's approaches producing them, I'll bet we will hear much sooner then 30 years.
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post #2923 of 3526
11/2/09 at 8:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeWilson View Post

The big question is what bothers people more - the price points or the fact they are using TCM quality masters?

Neither. The transition from pressed discs to burned ones is my biggest obstacle. Price points and transfers can change, but a format downgrade is more foundational and permanent in nature.

I could imagine a friend charging me $20 to put a TCM-recorded movie on DVD-R. Heck, it'd be worth it to avoid the hassle of doing it myself. But I expect a professional product from a business. Cheap, recordable discs are for your home PC projects.
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post #2924 of 3526
11/3/09 at 5:08am


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Kuhns View Post

I have 50 of the Archive titles to date and have watched about half of them so far.  Other than a couple of 1930s titles that were made from pretty rough source material, I don't really have any complaints.  Among the titles in my most recent order were color/widescreen westerns: THE BADLANDERS, THE SHEEPMAN, and TRIBUTE TO A BADMAN.  They look wonderful---as good as any DVDs of films from that period from any manufacturer in my opinion.  I'm watching them upconverted from a Sony Blu-ray player on a 65" Toshiba DLP Hi-Def monitor.
 
Those who say these do not look professional simply don't know what they're talking about.
Get the best deal you can, and if you still can't handle the price, you'll just have to do without.  As for the gentleman who wants a product that will last 30 years, check back in 30 years and I'll let you know how they hold up.  Maybe by then you'll be ready to take the plunge.


I have a 100" film screen and I've screened a handful of titles from the Archives. Many were acceptable, some were not.

If acceptable is the new standard of quality for Warner Home Video, than so be it. But it's certainly not reflected in the price point. That seems to be people's biggest beef. Furthermore, presentation for a $20+ title goes beyond the transfer itself imo. While the very least of my concerns, the fact that a major retailer is not even offering proper cover art goes a long way in reflecting the attitudes of the studio with this program I think. Again, I've receive more professional packaging from eBay sellers on the early 30s Paramounts I've purchased in the past. WHV is approaching this as essentially nothing more than TCM in a box, as someone else already stated. What bums a lot of us out, is that this has the POTENTIAL to be an amazing program if it were approached differently. I'm not inherently opposed to DVD-R if it;s out of necessity. There are just way too many strikes against this for me personally.

What I would like to know however, is whether WHV is still issuing interlaced transfers or if this has since been corrected, and what of the early launch titles? Can anyone confirm or deny?

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post #2925 of 3526
11/3/09 at 11:48am
I just watched the Region 2 dvd of Northwest Passage. Very acceptable transfer, I'm guessing from the old laser disc.

I've just ordered two more dvd's from the same Spanish seller....Five Graves to Cairo and Inferno.

I now have choices thanks to a region free player. If Warner, Universal, Sony, etc... want to end regular pressed releases, so be it. My money can now go elsewhere.
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post #2926 of 3526
11/3/09 at 1:20pm
I've purchased several Archive titles, taking advantage of deals such as the 5 for $50 package in August and, based on limited viewing, I'm underwhelmed with the quality.  From reading this thread, I was aware of some of the quality issues plaguing older titles such as THE BIG HOUSE and so I stayed away from such titles even though those early '30s films are some of the ones I am most interested in.  

The general consensus was that widescreen-era films that had never previously been issued in OAR boasted to newer to new transfers. So, I was quite unpleasantly surprised and disappointed when the first film I watched, MIKE'S MURDER (from 1984, no less) was decidedly sub-par in quality.  The picture is muddy and dull, with terrible black-levels, and based on screen-shot comparisons between the full-screen trailer and the 16x9 feature, it seems to be framed incorrectly.  I watched the film upconverted on my Oppo BDP-83 player on a 42" hi-def television.  I don't know where this transfer came from, but it sure didn't seem recent.  As far as I know, the film hasn't appeared in widescreen on home video previously and I have not seen it on TCM before.  

The film itself is quite good, a gem awaiting rediscovery. This disc, however, is a far cry from those of the pre-Archive WHV stable.  In the "good old days," it was such a happy occasion when WHV put out a favorite film, whether it be an acknowledged classic or something more obscure, one could be assured that the film would be treated right...top-notch a/v quality, classy packaging, and maybe an extra or three.  The slapdash presentation of MIKE'S MURDER is so contrary to this it just doesn't seem possible that it came from the same home video label, but Mr. Feltenstein is still the one steering the ship...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Kuhns View Post

I have 50 of the Archive titles to date and have watched about half of them so far.  Other than a couple of 1930s titles that were made from pretty rough source material, I don't really have any complaints.  Among the titles in my most recent order were color/widescreen westerns: THE BADLANDERS, THE SHEEPMAN, and TRIBUTE TO A BADMAN.  They look wonderful---as good as any DVDs of films from that period from any manufacturer in my opinion.  I'm watching them upconverted from a Sony Blu-ray player on a 65" Toshiba DLP Hi-Def monitor.
 
Those who say these do not look professional simply don't know what they're talking about.
Get the best deal you can, and if you still can't handle the price, you'll just have to do without.  As for the gentleman who wants a product that will last 30 years, check back in 30 years and I'll let you know how they hold up.  Maybe by then you'll be ready to take the plunge.



Edited by Jon Hertzberg - 11/3/09 at 1:30pm
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post #2927 of 3526
11/3/09 at 2:44pm
Not to veer too far off topic, but speaking of transfer quality, even with what little back catalog WHV is putting on pressed disc these days it seems like they're not even trying.  They still (for the time being) release a lot of animation to DVD and I buy most of it.  I've been quite underwhelmed with some of the video/transfer quality on the recent Plastic Man and Saturday Morning cartoon sets.  I know the material is old and not exactly masterpieces, but I've rarely ever seen video look this bad (grainy,fuzzy,dirty,washed out) and completely unrestored on WHV pressed DVDs.

I feel most of their animation releases won't last much longer, although a few are still scheduled in coming months.  Seeing as Yogi's Christmas is being dumped in the archive, no doubt most future animation releases of any kind will appear there as well.  I'm seriously worried anything over 20 years old will have horrible transfers, whereas most of the animation I have bought and supported from WHV these past several years have been carefully restored or at least had good quality transfers to DVD.
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post #2928 of 3526
11/3/09 at 2:52pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by smithb View Post

My experience is similar to Jeff's in that my only purchase so far is the Barker Tarzan set. And even then I waited for Jeff to buy it first and give it the thumbs up. Thanks Jeff

As far as video goes, to my eyes the Barker DVDs are of similar video quality of the pressed Weissmuller sets. So while they aren't cleaned up in anyway, if the film elements are in good shape then it can be a decent release. There is probably more potential for some PD quality releases, but a little research and checking reviews should help in making good decisions.

As far as price goes, I bought the Barkers as a set and with a coupon so I averaged about $8 a film. While I know we use to buy DVDs for $20 a piece, most of the pressed releases in the same category as the archives have generally been available for under $10 a piece in the recent past and even less when bundled in sets. It is hard to go back to those old pricing scheme's once you've gotten use to less.

As far as DVD-R's go, the jury is out as to their longevity. Personally, I've had DVD-R's I made for my kids go bad after a few years and it isn't because they abuse them, but just that they have worn out in a way (freezing, skipping, pixelating) from lots of use. I use high quality blanks and burn at slow speeds (which I found makes them last longer). Unfortunately, we just don't know how Warners burns these and it is still too soon in the process to know if they will go bad and when. I like to feel confident that my purchases will last up to 30 years of periodic viewing.

So I do believe the program has merit for titles that would have otherwise have had no release. And it is hard to know for sure how much impact this program has had on the decline of vintage pressed releases (they may have declined anyways).

Personally, these releases are a bit of a gamble for me because I am unfamilar with the majority of the titles. That is why I liked the multi-DVD pressed sets from the past (fiml noir, gansters)  because at an average of $4 - $6 a piece I could experiment more. I won't gamble on a title @ $20 but I will pay more if it is a known commodity for me (I spent similar for some criterion and kino releases).

So all in all, I would say the program has value to those who have a strong understanding of lesser known releases, know what they want, have the means to pay a slightly more inflated price, and just want to see some of their favorite films released. Even if their longevity may be in question.

However, I don't think it is as friendly a program when it comes to promoting these films to less knowledgeable viewers wishing to expand their horizons since the per disk cost makes it more difficult to take chances.  Too many obscure titles and if they may not last, renting might suffice.

You're welcome (Barker set info) 

Good luck on the Gordon Scott set.  I know the experience ordering from WB Archives.  I had to call them a couple of times a few months ago when I ordered the Barker set from the WB site.

I agree with your take on the program.  It's a good idea for those that have been wanting to add some of the lesser-known titles to their collections but as most here believe, the pricepoint plus the DVD-R format keeps a number of potential customers from buying the archive titles.

Just me, but I have set a $10 limit for any DVD-R archive title.  As far as the DVD-R life question, I haven't run across any dead ones yet in my collection but most are only a few years old at this point.
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post #2929 of 3526
11/4/09 at 9:22am
There are titles I'd love to own but the $19.99 price plus shipping is way too steep.  I'm able to buy Blu ray titles for less.
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post #2930 of 3526
11/4/09 at 8:03pm
Still waiting for my Lana Turner set:

-Green Dolphin Street
-Marriage Is A Private Affair
-Slightly Dangerous
-Keep Your Powder Dry
-Weekend at the Waldorf
-Cass Timberlane
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post #2931 of 3526
11/4/09 at 8:59pm
WEEKEND AT THE WALDORF is available through the Warner Archives and the transfer is good. With the exception of GREEN DOLPHIN STREET, I suspect we'll see the rest of those Turner titles in the Archives also.
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post #2932 of 3526
11/5/09 at 12:04am
Yeah, I'm aware that it's been released already, but I don't want to purchase yet because they might release a Turner set.
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post #2933 of 3526
11/5/09 at 8:12am
One of the frustrating things about the archive program for me is the price. I have put a limit of $10 or less per title.So far i've made purchases with bundles and value paks . Plus a couple of odd sales. Keeping that pricepoint.

But there are many titles that they havn't included in value paks or sales.And my insider discount only brings the titles down to $15 ea.

I just wish they would put together some kind of a program where you could buy in bulk for $10 or less per title.Like some of the bundles they did in the past. But not limit the choices to 10 or 15 titles. That would work great for me.
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post #2934 of 3526
11/5/09 at 8:23am
I think eventually the Archive will probably offer some kind of make your own bundle arrangement for $10 per title. New releases will stay at the higher price for a few months before they are eligible. Obviously Warners is okay with selling these at that price point in multiple quantities, so when they feel they've exploited the first tier of the market sufficiently I think they'll try to increase sales by opening it up more. It would no doubt lead to a surge in sales, as so many people bide their time and don't purchase now, waiting for possible value packs.
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post #2935 of 3526
11/5/09 at 10:25am
The shipping costs are riduclous as well ($5 per individual film). They should also just do a price point where shipping is always free instead of offerring it only on occasion.

Make your own bundle of 5 films for $50 with free shipping at the $50 mark would go along way towards getting a lot more business.
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post #2936 of 3526
11/13/09 at 11:39am


Quote:
Originally Posted by smithb View Post

The shipping costs are riduclous as well ($5 per individual film). They should also just do a price point where shipping is always free instead of offerring it only on occasion.

Make your own bundle of 5 films for $50 with free shipping at the $50 mark would go along way towards getting a lot more business.

DeepDiscount is having a storewide sale until Nov 29; the Archive titles are brought down to $17.99 and I think their international shipping may be a bit more reasonable.

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post #2937 of 3526
11/13/09 at 12:25pm
    Slighty on the pessimistic side, I see this as a slippery slope and a toe in the water as to what Warners sees as their possible beneficial future.    "We can produce these with lack-luster quality, no extras, and at a HIGHER price point?  Sign us up!"   If this model thrives or even holds,  I can see a day when only the rarest of catalog titles get a traditional release.  If not already mentioned TCM/Universal are also beginning to use this method.....
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post #2938 of 3526
11/13/09 at 1:10pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony_H View Post

    Slighty on the pessimistic side, I see this as a slippery slope and a toe in the water as to what Warners sees as their possible beneficial future.    "We can produce these with lack-luster quality, no extras, and at a HIGHER price point?  Sign us up!"   If this model thrives or even holds,  I can see a day when only the rarest of catalog titles get a traditional release.  If not already mentioned TCM/Universal are also beginning to use this method.....

Since the first batch of WA titles, I have been very happy with the quality of the transfers.  I also have received the Universal Cult Horror Collection and found the transfers to be very good.  I am all for the slippery slope if I can get films such as the Marie Dressler titles and a gem like Mail Order Bride on DVD-r when they would not see light of day any other way.
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post #2939 of 3526
11/13/09 at 1:59pm
While I haven't purchased many compared to some others (only the Tarzan Barker's and Scott's, and Abe Lincoln in Illinois), I will say quality of video has not been a problem so far. So at least they seem to be selecting titles that have decent prints available. There have been some scratches here and there that might have been nice to have been cleaned up, but other then that more then acceptable. I have actually purchased some pressed DVD s of movies that look worse.

The DVD-R question is still unknown and it appears easier to get a bad burn then a bad pressed disk. but as long as they send out replacements that is acceptable.

So the price point is the only real concern. I managed to stay under the $10 average so far. If they can end up at $10 or lower, or just have more coupons and ways to mix and match to get what you want I can see this as a valuable resource for older titles.
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post #2940 of 3526
11/13/09 at 7:07pm
I'm reposting my below comments from the separate TARZAN thread as I think it has relevance in this thread as well.  And there are so many Warner Archives threads going on these days that it's hard to figure out the best place to post anymore...


TARZAN'S GREATEST ADVENTURE definitely has some sort of authoring error so I would suggest NOT purchasing this title until WB admits and comes clean that there is something wrong here.  It played fine on my first deck (Philips) up until about 31 minutes in and then starts pixelating and becomes completely unwatcheable soon afterwards.  I ejected it and tried it on my computer at that point and it went through that bad section fine.  My other DVD player (JVC) seemed to go through that section fine as well, but I am not going to watch the entire film on all 3 players just to see if it will play all the way through on each.  I put it back in the Philips and it still will not play correctly after the 31 minute mark no matter how many times I try.   I have never had any disc not play correctly in the Philips.  This is the first one that's ever had an issue.   Since the disc may play OK in some players, that is why some here seem to have had no problems with it.  That already a few of us have experienced some issues with this disc proves this is more than just some random isolated problem.  Even if some players may play it correctly, that's simply not good enough if the player I'm watching it on won't.  There is no discoloration or visible defect on the disc itself, either.

Considering this is easily the most desired title out of this latest batch, and even features a major role by a young Sean Connery, it's truly appalling that Warners continues to have such low quality control on their overpriced DVD-R program.  OK, we'll pay the exorbitant price sometimes because we want a certain movie, but at least make the discs playable NOW.   People are questioning if these DVD-Rs will play in five years.   Ha!   What about having them play right now???   Unbelievable.
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