Warner Archive Discussion Thread (FEEDBACK) - Page 97

Oh - some folks are actually a little rude about the Archive aren't they? Some are unintentionally so...

Question:. What does the name “Warner Archive Collection” mean to you?

Answer no. 1076:  rare movies buried on order

Well, it made me smile...

buried on order? I guess his "n" works as badly as my "b" utton.

I never saw the survey.


7. "Lesser known but goood films from the Warner Archives that have not had 5 cents of work done on them."

The survey was sent to me via email.  It said if I completed the survey I would get 10% off my next purchase with a one time code they provided to me at the end of the survey.

Interesting that only 3% of respondents still have laser disc players, would have assumed more. LDs fare quite well in my home theater system, upscaled to 720p/1080i, connected to my Mitsubishi projector via DVDO Edge. So far I've seen no significant advantage with B&W WBArchive offerings, though color titles have a little more oomph. My SVHS tapes in SP come close to laser, while EPs project very much like pre-recorded VHS tapes. And, of course, remastered titles on conventional DVDs play great.

The survey and this forum pretty much confirm it's impossible to define what makes a collector. There's no common denominator re numbers or what constitutes acceptable quality, so we're just like every other sector of the economy: supply, demand, price, etc.

One thing about the survey that struck me strange, the birth year options only went back to 1940, I'm a 1934, still just as much a kid taken by the silver screen, but at home. My suggestion for a monthly pricing commitment I'd make, $49 for five, and $10 for each additional.

As Bob & Ray used to say when signing off: " Write if you get work and hang by your thumbs!"

I have yet to purchase anything from the archives (too many issues that concern me), but I would have love to take that survey.

I was reading the results and was momentarily sucked in to the subscription idea until I saw the prices.  Is this some sort of joke?  Why would I join a club that offers virtually no discount?   At some point in the future, I'd like to pick up a few archives titles, but at this point it just makes ZERO sense to me.  Every title that I'm interested in buying is a "Blind Buy" and I refuse to pay that kind of cash for a moderate transfer of a film that I haven't seen on a format that may die before I get around to watching it (I have 400+ movies that are already sitting unwatched on my shelf).  I'm more than happy to add to that queue for restored films on production quality media.

If they want a club concept to take off, they need to take a closer look at Columbia House.  I could join that and get DVD for 20% of what WB wants to charge. 

Keep trying guys and maybe you'll get me to open my wallet again.  Until then, I'm more than happy to send my money to Columbia/Sony for all of the impressive boxsets that they're pumping out.  It's going to be sad to see WB drop from first to worst in this years HTF poll.

That was a silly question, because it only allowed you to pick ONE answer, so I chose standard DVD as an answer.  But I have three laserdisc players and still use all of them.

If the question had allowed multiple answers, you can bet the percentage would have been better than 3%.

Edited by Rob_Ray - 10/26/09 at 10:06am

Possibly one of us had a survey with a glitch, mine definitely allowed multiple answers to this question, as it did on many others. Glad to hear you too have multiple LD players in use. Do you concur with my experiences on relative quality of upscaled LDs vs. WBArchive DVDs? I hope you and others will share their comparable experiences on this forum.

I don't have a Hi-Def setup so have no experience with upscaled LDs.  The thing that still impresses me with laserdiscs vs. DVDs, pressed or burned, is the sound quality.  DVDs have a less noisy image, especially with color films and no analog flaws, but I've yet to hear the DVD that sounds as good as the same film on laserdisc.  I'm hoping that BluRay finally corrects this setback from the laserdisc era, but I doubt I'll live to see "Peach-O-Reno" on BD!

Yeah, I was allowed only one answer on this too, so opted for DVD. I still have VHS and LASER and have just a few more items to port over to DVD-R. 

 Any new codes?  I've got some new stuff in the shopping cart but won't purchase without some sort of discount code.

 

Strangely when I did the survey it only let you choose one in that category so I chose Blu Ray.  I also have LaserDisc and DVD thought.

My survey, too only offered one choice. I picked DVD player, as that is the format of choice for the Archive venture. I could have voted for everything but the gaming system.

Maybe the single choice/multiple choice was a Firefox/ Internet Explorer issue?

I'm going to risk going slighty off-topic here.  There have been a number of complaints about the Warner Archives' execution of its program, even some from me.

The new Sony SAMUEL FULLER FILM COLLECTION arrived today.  The packaging is the worst I have ever seen.  DVDs are stacked on top of each other, in two's.  But even worse than that, the lower discs' edges are stuck BENEATH the spindles!  I had to crack the outer packaging twice to avoid possibly breaking the DVDs as I attempted to slide them out.

Bear in mind that this set costs 70-something dollars after tax and/or shipping, in a down economy.  For that price point, they couldn't provide slim cases in a wraparound box? 

Sony's TOHO SCI-FI SET was bad enough, with three DVDs stacked on one spindle.  But this is worse--much worse.

Where am I going with this rant?  Well, recent Sony packaging makes the Warner Archives look like a model business operation.  I'm sure the film content of the Sam Fuller Collection is fine, but be careful with your 70-something dollars if that set appeals to you (and if you care at all about preserving the discs for the long term).   

The Fuller collection is $56 at Amazon.com, free shipping, no sales tax charged (here). That's 7 movies, so $8 per. On pressed discs, with new transfers and extras.

The packaging (a picture of it is included in the Beaver review here) has been used on many multi-disc sets. It's not my favorite (slim cases would be better), but I've never had too much trouble removing discs from these if careful. It does take up less shelf space (at a premium for many) than 7 full-size cases would.

On the whole, a much better value than Archives, assuming you want the films, of course.

EDIT: I'm not sure about those disc edges being stuck under the spindle. Perhaps that is just something that went wrong with your package (?) I don't have the set to check it myself at this point.

Sony used the same packaging for The Jack Lemmon Collection and The William Castle Collection as they are using for The Sam Fuller Collection.  While not perfect, I have not had any problems, but I hated the Toho package, three discs on one spindle.

Back on target I received Gabriel Over The White House and while it is far from a perfect transfer, it is better than the Laserdisc I also received Confessions of a Nazi Spy and Look For The Silver Lining and both look very good.  However Best of The Badmen looks out of focus at times.  It is funny that I had forgotten that RKO did not produce a color logo, so when the black & white logo appeared I leap up to check the packaging then the color titles came on and I settled down.  Still like the film though.

I have both the William Castle and Sam Fuller collections from Sony, and the packaging varies slightly, as follows:

The William Castle set has overlapping discs, but luckily the lower discs weren't wedged below the spindles.  The Samuel Fuller set has different spindles, and unfortunately there are spindle grooves that the lower four discs fit tightly under.  That is what makes it so difficult to remove the lower four discs without breaking them.  That's not the case with the William Castle packaging, which is better.

I have neither the patience of Job nor the fingers of Liberace, so the Fuller packaging is a configuration that I hope to never see again.  Buyer, beware!

I realize that this packaging issue is probably difficult to visualize if one doesn't have copies of both of those sets, so I'll give it a rest at this point.  Those who are complaining about the Warner Archives' packaging should look at Sony's Samuel Fuller set for some perspective.

   

Well, it sounds like a different design for the package then. That's discouraging. Maybe it's worth converting to slim cases for that one. I don't know why they don't just use that approach all the time anyway. I'd also prefer Warner Archives to use slim cases.

Jobla, you might want to repeat these complaints over in the Sam Fuller thread.  Maybe Mike Schlesinger will see them, and pass the info along to the right department at Sony. 

  I'm sure somewhere in these 90+ pages its been brought up, but if not, I really dont like this business model.  Its a slippery slope.  Sure its great to see some of these obscure titles make disc, but if its to any degree successful, I think you can say goodbye to the current catalog release method.   DVD producers:  "We can release these titles without investing in better mastering techiques or paying to produce extras AND charge a higher price point?   Sign us up!"  Pretty soon the only releases they'll put the money into will be new releases.  I know how often I buy those (not).   Uh oh...newsbreak..  TMC and Universal are teaming for something called the TMC Vault Collection.. great.

I think the whole idea of charging double the usual price for a DVD, and then to produce the result on a format that is known to be extremely tempremental, is a very dodgy practice, and a spit in the face to people who have invested in the genuine products over the past decade. I'm all for making the films avaliable, but $20 for what is essential a 1st generation bootleg is downright absurd, not least when you realise Warners is shutting out overseas consumers like myself.

Yeah I agree. I have no problem with Warner Archive in theory, but I'm not paying Criterion prices for public domain quality discs. And being an international buyer the fact they can only be bought at TCM and MoviesUnlimited means exhorbitant postage costs that makes the price even worse.

I would say 95 percent of the 40 or so WA titles I own are well above "public domain" and "first generation bootleg" quality, and well under Criterion prices, with or without coupons. Do I have gripes about the program? Yes. (It is too bad my foreign friends can't access them to see for themselves, not easily, anyway.) Do I lament the passing of pressed discs? Sure. But I also like owning 40 titles that in all likelihood would never have come out on standard DVD. 

The big question is what bothers people more - the price points or the fact they are using TCM quality masters? 

Both. And the fact they aren't sold at all online retailers which would lead to more competition and lower prices and reasonable shipping prices instead of 2 for US$18.50 which is simply a rip off.

For myself personally, it's the price point COUPLED with all of the other problems.

What exactly does this high price reflect in the first place, given the production overhead has been greatly reduced and the profits all going straight to WHV? There's a significant reduction in quality and the format itself. And for all the cost, we don't even get anything resembling a professional looking product. It's the least of my quibbles yet representative of the overall attitude and therefore greatest of concerns personally... at $20 + s/h for a DVD-R, the eBay bootleggers at least offer original artwork, but the studio itself??

The fact that non-progressive transfers are being sold possibly irks me the most though. Especially when such issues could be solved using free software on my dell laptop at home!

Either keep the cost as is and put some work into the transfers, start mastering progressively and maybe throw in some bonus shorts or something. Or bring these down to a price point reflective of the value, which imo, is not more than $10 period.

Also, why not follow the same formula as retail releases, even if it is the damn archives... if whv is going to be flooding us with 60 titles a year or whatever, why dont they put some thought into packaging genre sets or director sets, etc. instead of just bundling individual titles as value packs months later? why not a dedicated set of b noirs or matinee oaters?

All it takes is a little creativity and better judgement than what's currently displayed by those in charge.

I think it reflects that WHV knows that some people have wanted access to some of the films for a really long time, and they are willing to pay double or triple the regular DVD price in order to get an official copy of the film.

It's been 8 months since the Warners Archive was implemented and the same people who were whining about it then are complaining about it now. Will they still be whining in June 2010, another 8 months later, about the Warner Archive program's "public domain" quality "bootlegs". Most likely.

Meanwhile, with 77 Warner Archive titles in my DVD collection (and every intention of buying LOTS more), I want to thank Warners for creating the program for people like me in mind. We're not as vocal as the naysayers but I'm sure you can tell by success of the program, we're very happy campers. Thank you!

"Double" or "triple" the price? Yes, minus coupons they are $19.95--but are most pressed DVDs $6.50 or $10 when released? I don't think so.

Why people who have never seen an Archive disc continue to carp about them is eccentric, to say the least--and why some of those same people praise Universal for a MOD program that no one has seen is odder still. I have the Universal horror discs on order and hope for the best, which is to say, on par with the Archive releases I've enjoyed. I also tip my hat to Warner for leading the way. (And Sony for its commitment to catalog titles on pressed discs. The rest get nothing--because they offer very little, in any configuration.) 

Quote:
WBshop doesn't post Warner Archive DVDs to international address, so we can't use all the coupons they send by email. The 5 packs are much better value, but there aren't any such sets that I want to buy. WBshop.com (and MoviesUnlimited) should just offer a deal that ANY 5 discs can be bought for $50.

Since I started keeping records in 2005, the average price I have paid for a DVD - including postage - is AUD$13.50. That's currently a bit over US$12, but the exchange rate is currently unusually high (for me) thanks mostly to the U.S. federal reserve printing so much money.  The long term exchange rate over that period is probably around US$0.75 = AUD$1, which would make the average price closer to US$10.

If I wanted to buy two Warner Archive DVDs from TCM.com or MoviesUnlimted, I would have to pay US$17.99 X 2, plus US$12.50 postage for the first disc and US$6 for each additional disc. That's US$54.48, or based on the current exchange rate about AUD$60 for 2 DVDs. 

Last week I bought the Criterion Blu-ray of Bottle Rocket for AUD$30.50 including postage. Hence my assertion that Warner Archive DVDs are effectively sold at Criterion prices. I guess I should've qualified that by saying for international buyers.

Compare the $30 price for Warner Archive releases with the Columbia Sam Fuller set that shipped early last week. It contains 7 films remastered from original elements, plus a bunch of extra features. Including postage it cost me AUD$77, or $11 per film. I also bought the first Columbia Film Noir box which cost me AUD$57, or $11.40 a film again including postage.  Even earler in the year when the exchange rate sucked I bought the Criterion Eclipse Nikkatsu Noir box (AUD$15.50 per film), Universial Pre-Code ($11 per film), Warner Forbidden Hollywood ($10.50 per film, PLUS two long documentaries as extras.).

The only discs I have paid $30 or more for this year are Blu-rays, I accept that Blu-rays are going to be expensive because they are on a new format.

I think a fair price for Warner Archive releases would be US$10 each. International postage should be no more than $7 for the first DVD and $2 for each additional. US$29 would be a fair price for two DVD-Rs including international postage, nearly US$55 is rediculous. Charging US$6 postage for each additional disc is rediculous. It is as if they don't even want international customers.
Well you're not comparing like with like. The Universal discs are supposedly remastered and will contain extra features (of course we should wait and see what the quality is like). Only a minority of the Warner Archive discs are from new scans, i.e. most of the widescreen releases. The vast majority are from the 10 - 20 year old tapes made for TV broadcasts.

Is it really necessary to use words like "whining"? People have legitimate concerns about both the product and the business model employed here. There are those who are clearly very happy with the direction taken and those, myself included, who are struck mostly by the shortcomings involved.
Given that we've all contributed generously to the studios' coffers over the years, I think we all (both supporters and detractors alike) are entitled to express our opinions. That doesn't fit my definition of whining.