Warner Archive Discussion Thread (FEEDBACK) - Page 62

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

My dealings with the WB shop customer service has lead me to believe that they don't know too much about anything. Including their own products.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

No, they're management wouldn't know how. It's like the Federal Government trying to run a small town.

As far as a spin off small subsidiary company - why do that when there's a possibility of one you can license to? Why else would they finally be open to licensing to Criterion after a decade of refusing to even consider it? The problem is that their library is so huge; even Criterion could only release, what, 10 a year?

By the way, true story: Warner put up for bid a few months back a contract that was the right to destroy their discs. Millions of unsold discs that they had in stock. Warner was paying to have them destroyed in bulk. Can't sell them. Don't want to give them away because that will only devalue a poor market. How to avoid this in the future? Made on Demand discs are the answer. This is the thinking of a large corporate entity. They don't do things small.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I can believe that. If that was the case, why wouldn’t WB incorporate those extra retail discs into, say, the Archive program rather than destroy perfectly good stock? Due to the same kind of logic: retail is for retail, MOD is for MOD.

As a fan of more general classic films, my interest in these titles are quite weak. Considering the negative baggage, I’m not even open to a blind buy. Despite this, I have trouble believing the days of properly producing a DVD are over. Reduced numbers, perhaps, but not extinct.

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I can see why Warners would want to destroy their DVD overstock. Just take a look at all the Sony/MGM DVDs poping up at overstock outlets like BIG LOTS?

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Well, they are willing to outsource production of the DVDs to Allied Vaughn, who have no idea how to encode DVDs, why didn't they just outsource production of the DVDs to Eclipse who DO know how to make very good quality DVDs?

If you subtract the licensing fees that Warner wouldn't need to pay, but add a few dollars for every DVD to pay for Eclipse making the discs, then you are still at around the US$12 (AUD$15) figure that most Eclipse DVDs sell for once you include postage.
Well we don't know exactly what Warner are going to be licensing to Criterion. They said it is a small number of films were the directors had asked Warner if they would allow Criterion to produce the DVD. This would be similar to the way Criterion made a lot of early Michael Bay DVDs, and recently did the releases for The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, most likely at the request of David Fincher.

This would be different to Warner paying Eclipse to make a Joan Crawford, John Garfield sets, or a set of Joel McCrea westerns.
If this is true it is very sad. They should've done a public service and donated all of the DVDs to public and university libraries.

I assumed that all those 4 film TCM sets that are currently being released are just an excuse to repackage and reissue a heap of discs that they have stuck in warehouses.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I remember reading a good while back (can't remember where) that most CD's are destroyed, they rarely sell out the whole run, & storing them costs money. But this is all a spectator sport for me, with the price, & DVD-R, & Warner still to figure out how to send stuff abroad (wow....that's a tough one!). Just...not interested.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Apparently a lot of unsold CDs get broken up and added to bitumen to make roads in China.
Robbie Williams' unsold CDs shipped to China - mirror.co.uk

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I can't believe the whole exclusive Amazon deal!!!
This whole time I gave Warner the benefit of the doubt regarding the archive.

I've been a trooper. Everytime I've gotten a coupon I've bought the maximum amount of dvd's for the coupon. So I own about 20 or so archive discs.

When I contacted WB and Allied Vaughn about the compression they said they are sorry about the issue and are jointly working on it and hope to have it rectified soon, but fixing each title would take a while.

I believed that, but each subsequent NEW release still had the same issue.

I did research and found a way to play these without getting the strobing effect.
In effect I bought a new and better dvd player ( granted I needed one anyone so not a huge deal!)

But now this?!!
There is no way in hell I would pay 28.00 for a single disc dvd-r non restored film. 15.99 which i payed wiht the coupons is ok, but this no way.

And what sucks for Warner is that about 4 of those were on my buy lists as I love cagney, bogart, and henry fonda movies.

Hopefully this is just a test and these will be on the site come next month.

If not I will not be buying those. Sorry, not at that Price.


In a spot of good news, I just got my first region free player!!! So now I can enjoy the many widescreen and special editions that we don't get here...
GREAT...more money for me to spend!! lol

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I certainly hope technology will evolve to the point where making a digital transfer of a film becomes a fast, inexpensive process. Warners would certainly benefit. We're 10 years into the digital era, and they've digitally transferred what, a third of their library, if that? As the Warner Archive painfully shows, they've done absolutely no digital work whatsoever on any Turner library title from 1929-1953 that has not been released commercially on DVD.

That's why the Warner Archive is such a devastating blow for those films, as a commercial DVD release was practically the only chance they had of getting a digital transfer done anytime in the near future. Other than TCM, is there going to be such a big demand for "The Big House" (1930) or "Dance, Fools, Dance" (1931) among TV stations worldwide, that Warners has to make a new transfer? Would the films in their Forbidden Hollywood or Gangster Collections have gotten such sparkling new transfers if they weren't being released on DVD?

I think Warners should not have launched an Archive program without being able to guarantee that each and every film released through it is digitally remastered and restored. I would have much rather seen them ride out the current market, no doubt with ever declining releases, and do the Archives in say 2012, where the technology might exist to make this economically feasible. As it is now, everything's a mess. For example, what if they do finally run off a new transfer of say "Dance, Fools, Dance," are they going to announce it, or quietly have the Archive disc switch to the new transfer? And for the people who bought the old transfer, can anything be done for them or will they have to double dip, provided of course they are even aware there's a new transfer being used?

The Warners Archive is just a little too ahead of its time.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I agree with you that it is very unfortunately that the nexus between buying WHV DVDs and supporting their preservation program has now been broken. At least buying a Criterion Eclipse DVD means you've helped fund a new HD transfer, even if it doesn't undergo hours of restoration.
Yeah, that cost AUD$50 for one!
Fortunately I have a good pressed DVD of Bringing Up Baby that I paid AUD$13.50 for, including postage.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I know have 8 of the WB Archive titles and I'm surprised that no one has put them up on the database DVD Profiler uses.

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If you tell me the UPCs (all the numbers below the barcodes) and the titles, I will add them.

They'll then likely appear in the database within 24 hours.

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If in the next few months, Warners were to do something like the following, it would go a long way, a long way, in allaying any fears or reservations people have about this program. I'm going to use the Gable/Crawford films as an example, but you can take any films currently in the Archive.

Have Warners announce, for example, a Gable/Crawford box set that will be commercially available. All the films in it (Dance, Fools, Dance; Laughing Sinners; Possessed; Chained; Forsaking All Others; Love on the Run) will be digitally remastered and restored. The Archive versions of all these films will be discontinued. Those that bought the Archive versions can get a big discount on the set, and depending on how many you bought, maybe even get it for free. They can even use their website to do all this, as most people who bought Archive discs would have bought them from there and have an order history.

If Warners were to do something like this in the next few months, and not have it be a one time thing, but do it every once in awhile as things permit, maybe with the Archive's top sellers, it would go a long way, a really long way, in allaying any fears or reservations about the current Warner Archive program. Time will tell what they do.

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Of all the initiatives being discussed at Burbank, I have my doubts it includes anything being given away 'free'...

A simple raft of non-archive releases, a box-set here and there, something that reminds, once again, of us just how good Warners can be when they put their minds to it would be good enough here.

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it's really good to see that the first wave of titles is now available to non-US purchasers from Movies Unlimited and TCM and at cheaper prices and reduced shipping rates. It's odd that although there were so many posts complaining about the unavailability of these discs to other countries, hardly anyone is now expressing any pleasure about this change.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

They are still bloody expensive to my mind. 18 bucks per title plus 6,50 per delivery + 6 bucks for every item. That's $ 30 for one title. Too much for me right now. My to-buy list is still very very long. Just in case there are no more titles left, the Archive series will be interesting for me under the given circumstances.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

That could certainly be a factor. I hope these developments do not result in anything that would backlash like that dreaded DVNR. With luck, new technologies will mean the DVNR process can go right into oblivion where it belongs.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Agreed. I think WB should have also waited until it was affordable to press a set number of each title. Along with a lack of restoration, the issue of burned media is another blow that cheapens the program. Both problems sharply contrast with the progress DVD has made over these last ten years. And for me personally, that's just unacceptable.

Warner should really have waited until they could deliver discs hardly discernible from retail, on all points. Consumers should not be asked to lower their standards. Downloads could have been offered in the meantime, since that's already a lesser experience.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

It's been a few weeks since I checked the Warner site for what titles are deemed unworthy of a decent treatment.

I see two of Warners better Film Noirs, The Unsuspected (1947) and The Verdict (1946) and another of their better Westerns, Colorado Territory .

I definately don't forsee another pressed classic Western collection from Warner since they're dumping all their most interesting titles into the Archives.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

This alone wouldn't answer the question of what happens to those titles that end up in the Archives, especially in terms of restoration. By taking a few films out of the Archives, digitally restoring them, and releasing them in one of their traditional, commercial box sets, they can make any talk of the Archives as a final dumping ground for films deemed not commercial completely go away and restore the hope they had going that one day you'd see available restored digital transfers of all this stuff.

The Warner Archives doesn't need tweaking; it needs to be fundamentally rethought, from restoration, to pressing, to price. Doing something like the occasional box set of titles from it, fully restored, released commercially, would buy them some time do all that, to keep the current program and just introduce gradual changes into it, and not have people calling for them to scrap it altogether.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

It's a nice idea, but if people are buying the archive versions and at such high prices, what would motivate Warner to go through such an expense? As you can see from some of the posts here, people are just happy to see these released, regardless of the quality or high cost in relation to pressed DVDs.

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Certainly they are still expensive although, to put things in proportion, when I think back to when DVD was first introduced, I was paying about £20 per disc ($32) in stores then. Nevertheless, I will only buy titles from this collection which I feel I absolutely must have.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

There's no reason for WHV to spend money restoring and releasing lots of obscure films while they can get $20 for bad DVDs made from video masters they made 10 years ago. So the film elements for The Big House et al will remain in storage for another decade or two before Warner bothers to do a proper HD transfer.

I'm glad the first 150 archive DVDs are now available internationally via Movies Unlimited, but I won't be buying any at the current price of AUD$33 each including postage. And, as much as I like Colorado Territory, I won't be buying it from Amazon for AUD$50.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I get the sense that you already realize this, but there is simply no chance of this happening. Why would they have bothered producing the Archive discs if they were going to release restored versions to retail a few months later? It seems clear that the Archive films are not going to receive extensive restoration or wide release anytime soon -- possibly never.

I will be happy to be wrong, but it certainly looks like WHV has lost confidence in the commercial viability of retail boxed sets. This isn't to say we won't see a few sets now and then, but the good ol' days seem over. Classic movie fans need to make an effort to support Sony's new aggressive release schedule; if those sets don't sell, I'm afraid Sony will end up like Warners.

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I think we all remember those days. However, to pay those prices now in 2009 would represent a massive step backwards for me, and probably for many others too.
The fact is we've gotten used to cheaper prices and you just can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Because it's still far, far too much for barebones titles, oft unrestored, on DVDRs?

Let those who feel these represent good value for money enjoy them, and good luck; I'm afraid that they aren't for me.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

From a PR standpoint, what other way is there really, what other thing can they do in the near future that would silence classic film and restoration enthusiasts who have been criticizing the Archives as presently constituted, other than to offer commercially the occasional box set of films, films that were once in the Archive, maybe its top sellers, and have now been taken out and fully restored? Unless they want to completely give up on that relationship with classic film and restoration enthusiasts that they've spent the last 10 years cultivating, which I guess isn't out of the realm of possibility, considering what's been happening at Fox and what happened at Paramount.

They can change the program itself, but that's obviously going to take awhile. The fact that their DVDs are still interlaced and not progressivley scanned three months after people have pointed this problem out, is ample proof enough that changing the Archive program is easier said than done. And to do the program right, I think having the Archive discs sport digital HD transfers are the way to go, and that'll take years for the technology to be there.
Doing a box set of Archive titles now and then is a simple, immediate fix that could deflect criticism and give them time to straighten things out and have the technology catch up.


I guess time will tell though what Warners will eventually do. At the end of the day, maybe they're not all that concerned with PR; who knows.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Are they still interlaced and not progressive? I don't think anyone has reviewed a newer release and stated either way.

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Yes, nothing is stopping the studios selling discs at £20, other than no one would buy them! The longer this Archive goes on, the worse it looks (DVD-R!!). It looks like small companies can do this type of thing, but very large ones are very bad at it. I don't think I'd be interested at $10 a pop now.