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Warner Archive Discussion Thread (FEEDBACK) - Page 51

post #1501 of 3526
5/4/09 at 2:29pm

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggie W
Mostly, I think a lot of people are missing the point with the Warner Archive, they have solved a huge industry problem and made available to "fans" the widest selection of titles ever. I think what we are seeing is the future business model and as the president of a company that tries to look forward at all times I can see it clear as day.

I think the "disc" be it DVD, Blu-Ray, or the compact disc for music is DEAD. Done, gone, about as relevant as the 8-track.

As retail sales plummet and these stores close (Circuit City-GONE, Borders-Dumping their inventory of DVD, Blu, and CD as other stores will follow suit) the way for a company like Warner to sell their product is direct and by cutting out the "shipping" guys too as shipping costs increase.

It will soon be all about the download, a box that sits in your "entertainment" room that you download your selections into. No more production costs, shipping costs, retail middle men...these guys will all sell to us direct. Done deal and it allows them to create their highest profit margin ever.

People here are worried about the quality of the "discs" Warner is selling when the end result will be the "discs" will soon disappear.

I think the people who are getting the worst "hosing" are those that bought into Blu-Ray a format that is sure to be very short lived. Just look at the fact that the technology is there right now to replace Blu and that you no longer have to take up space in your home storing discs...that's the ticket and note that the Warner Archive already allows you to download at a lower cost.

I say this as somebody that has always loved collecting "albums" and films but we have seen the end of actually holding a physical product in our hands and I can't believe that on this website more people are not pointing that out.



yeah, ok.
I've been hearing for 10 years at least, that physical
software for movies and music will soon be gone.

how many years does soon actually represent.
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post #1502 of 3526
5/4/09 at 2:39pm

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I would ask what you think of as "soon"...

I think due to the fact that people don't like to give up their old technology that we will see this stuff remain available to varying degrees (used and online) for the next decade but I believe that over this same decade the push to slow the manufacture of "discs" and the promotion of downloadable media will be quite real. So, if 10 years is a long time so be it, but I think we are seeing the beginning of the end of them right now.
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post #1503 of 3526
5/4/09 at 2:43pm

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

well if you say another 10 years, that added to the previous 10 years of
saying discs will be gone, then I'd say 20 years is far from soon.

If you tell me within 1 year from now the only
way to get my movies and music is to download it then yes
that would be soon.
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post #1504 of 3526
5/4/09 at 2:47pm

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinéKarine
MoviesUnlimited posted its monthly Q&As update and

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
Movies Unlimited.
growing up in Philly in the late 70's this was the first video
rental store I can remember.
they had everything.

Yes, great to read about Movies Unlimited here. Stirs some memories of my own.

I was in contact with Movies Unlimited already back in my VHS times. In fact, they were my first US retailer: I think I got their name (and fax number) from Leonard Maltin's Movie & Video Guide.

Occasionally I even called them, making sure it was daytime on the US continent (later I would do the same with Digital Eyes, when DVD took off). They were able to supply me with some titles I couldn't get here in Europe, even if sometimes I had to pay the price of a rental version (roughly $100) for an occasional title.

I had to buy a player that would play NTSC tapes. (TV-set wasn't a problem: rather early all European TV-sets accepted NTSC signals as well.)

I also had their huge catalog, delivered by post as a special present I offered myself once a year. Still have one. And their link is still in my IE-Favorites bookmarks.

Puts a different light on some of the prices we're discussing now, but one fact remains standing: I was able to get those rare titles from the US!!


Cees
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post #1505 of 3526
5/4/09 at 4:39pm

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

The review thread has all but dried up. Crawdaddy, you ordered twenty titles. Give us a heads-up on some of them. I've been considering THE COMMAND. How does it look? Anyone else? Let's see some reviews on these Archive titles.
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post #1506 of 3526
5/4/09 at 6:59pm

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Quote:
INTERNATIONAL POSTAGE: $6.50 base charge per order plus $6.00 for each item ordered. Customer responsible for any duties at point of entry.
What!? That's Warner Archive like international postage prices!
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post #1507 of 3526
5/4/09 at 8:47pm

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I don't personally like the idea of downloadable movies. How many people here have had hard drives die. Mine seem to average about 2 years before they fail and I lose everything on them and have to start over. I know most regular people's hard drives last longer than this but I am a filmer of special events, concerts ect that have my hard drives doing renderings and encodes with the hard drives running maxed out 24 hours a day 7 days a week pretty much year round. I've had programs that I download, and I know if I don't back them up on disc, I won't have them all that long. Also, I don't know what WB is like with their downloads, but it might be of the type that is hard to convert to dvd-r for back up if it is some type of heavily proprietary format. Also, I want to be able to watch movies on my 42 inch wide screen TV and not have to watch them on my small 4:3 computer monitor.

For the reasons above and many more I am not a fan of downloadable movies. It might be alright for newer movies that you watch once and never want to watch again but for 30's thru 60's classic movies that have stood the test of time, it would not be the way I would want to keep them for a year or two until I lose a whole hard drive due to bad sectors. With Dvd-R media, I have occasionally had a one go bad after a few years. Not so much anymore since I use top of the line media. But just imagine losing a couple hundred movies all at once from a loss of a hard drive. That is never going to happen to me. This is the end of the discussion for me on that downloadable garbage.

Now as for the dvd-rs from WB, I have got 10 so far 7 Clark Gable, 2 Cary Grant and 1 Spencer Tracy/Joan Crawford movie. I am so far pretty happy with the quality of these movies 70 plus years old. Over half of the one's I got have not been shown on TCM for the last couple of years if ever so comparisons are not applicable to me in many cases for TCM versus WB dvd-r media. I am waiting for the next buy two get one free code so that I can order 6-9 more Clark Gable movies. I do think I will continue to buy from WB under their new program but will limit the movies I buy to those that TCM never shows and do want the price to come down to about 10-15 dollars per title.
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post #1508 of 3526
5/4/09 at 11:14pm

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

DanMel, I too have no interest in downloading product, until it's forced upon me. I am very happy with packaged media.

Before Movies Unlimited, I began, in the early 1980's, buying VHS tapes from really funky mail-order companies like Thunderbird Films and All Horror Video. This was when home video was still in its infancy.

I bought my first VCR in 1977, which was coincidently the first VHS deck that hit the market. It was the old, old RCA Selectavision, and it cost me a grand. Back then, I only had four grand in the bank, so I invested a quarter of my entire net worth in the thing. Best decision I ever made!
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post #1509 of 3526
5/5/09 at 1:02am

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggie W
I think the "disc" be it DVD, Blu-Ray, or the compact disc for music is DEAD. Done, gone, about as relevant as the 8-track.

And when that day comes, that'll be the last purchase of a movie I'll ever make. I like things. I like cover art, I like liner notes, I like being able to touch and hold and fondle my disc. I like having a wall of discs at my disposal any time I want, and I like being able to sell off a movie I don't watch anymore. I don't want a stream of bits transmitted through the aether to my television.
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post #1510 of 3526
5/5/09 at 2:18am

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Regarding movie downloading - Warner is already preparing a lot of movies available on DVD for On Demand downloads at their web site. Right now, only 14.95 Archive links work from google, but at least we can see what to expect. A few boxset exclusive titles, like Inside Daisy Clover, April in Paris, Left Handed Gun are coming this way. Tall Story, Terminal Man, Sea Gypsies, Top Secret Affair, American Cyborg: Steel Warrior, Strawberry Statement, Madwoman Of Chaillot are unreleased titles that are showing on demand listings.
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post #1511 of 3526
5/5/09 at 3:10am

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

20 new titles have been added. I went through the Archive collection and found the following:

Above and Beyond (1952)
All the Brothers Were Valiant (1953)
Billy the Kid (1941)
Bye Bye Braverman (1968)
Castle on the Hudson (1940)
El Condor (1970)
A Dream of Kings (1969)?
Dusty and Sweets McGee (1971)?
The Fallen Sparrow (1942)
Freebie and the Bean (1974)
Johnny Eager (1942)
Party Girl (1958)
Pride of the Marines (1945)
Princess O'Rourke (1943)
Tarzan and the Slave Girl (1950)
Tarzan's Magic Fountain (1949)
Tarzan's Peril (1951)
Tarzan's Savage Fury (1952)
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post #1512 of 3526
5/5/09 at 4:02am

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Unfortunately, looks like I was correct about most of the releases. I'm surprised they left one Tarzan film off the list. Just a small correction:

El Condor (1970)
A Dream of Kings (1969)?
Dusty and Sweets McGee (1971)?

need to be replaced with

Four Daughters (1938)
Great Garrick (1937)
Hard to Get (1938)
Skin Game (1971)
Soldier in the Rain (1963)
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post #1513 of 3526
5/5/09 at 4:13am

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I am also not a fan of download for most of the reasons that Tony mentioned. I don't have a setup to the 'net at present in my main viewing room on my Plasma set and have no interest in downloading movies to a PC or hard drive.

That said, I hear what Reggie's saying and as someone with his own business, that's a view that I respect. I just hope he's wrong

I haven't joined the BR mkt yet but that's mainly due to the limited title catalog of older movies/TV shows available thus far.

I can see the logic in downloading for current movies that appeals to the "PC-watching" consumer but I'm not in that catagory as a viewer.

I can see the definite advantage in eliminating storage space in downloading though. But I'm a small-time collector of movies vs most compared on this Bd. I have about 225 movie DVD's & 200 TV/DVD sets.

Back to the Archive thread: The main titles that I'm interested in are a few of the Barker Tarzan's. I see from Marcel's list that they're starting to appear. Thanks Marcel, for the list!

But that pricepoint on DVD-R's is keeping me from buying my 1st archive titles so far. If I can get a coupon that knocks the price down close to $10 per title, I might get those Barker movies since it appears that TCM apparently pulled the plug on their scheduled July Barker Tarzan airings.
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post #1514 of 3526
5/5/09 at 5:26am

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I'm still waiting for more 60s-70s titles to come out, myself.....
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post #1515 of 3526
5/5/09 at 5:27am

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Just curious: How do people know that TCM was planning to show those Tarzans in July? The TCM website schedule only shows the current month and two future months. Sometimes an article on the site will mention a few others beyond that (e.g., this announcement about Essentials, Jr.). Was that where the Lex Barker info had come from, or is there another source of information on movies TCM plans to air more than two or three months hence?
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post #1516 of 3526
5/5/09 at 5:41am

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I have such mixed emotions right now...

I have been dying for Soldier in the Rain to come out on DVD, but disappointed and a little shocked that a really good Steve McQueen movie can't make it onto regular DVD anymore.

There are other titles that are also disappointing as I feel they warrant a regular DVD release. However there are also titles that are more obscure that I am happy to see on Archives.

So I will continue to be both frustrated and happy with the titles as they are announced.
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post #1517 of 3526
5/5/09 at 6:06am
Thread Starter 

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

No downloads for me unless that's the only option.

Of the 20 new titles added today, Four Daughters and Princess O'Rourke are going into my next order.

We seldom hear of Princess O'Rourke - but it's a really delightful film, a precursor to Roman Holiday in its theme and to me, the better film of the two. A real little treasure.
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post #1518 of 3526
5/5/09 at 6:12am

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

GlennH,
The July schedule was posted in a thread on the TCM message board. They always do that so we can actually see four months at a time.

I’m also in agreement about wanting to have physical media instead of a download only set up. I’ve had the same problems as Dan with external hard drives going bad after a couple years and I routinely make backups of them onto dvds. There will always have to be some kind of physical media for data backups. Where I work we have very large databases with millions of records that need to be backed up nightly and the IT people who take care of that use some kind of tape system to do it. This is the same issue people are having now with movies that are made digitally and not with film. While film takes more room to store and needs special conditions (temp, humidity, etc…), you know you can always go back to it and play it. With digital storage if the hard drive freezes up or becomes corrupt, you’ve lost it unless you had it backed up on something like film so it’s a real catch 22.

What may be more likely to happen is that programs like EZ Takes become more popular where you pay about $9 bucks for a movie and through their system you download and burn it yourself. I’ve used it several times and it’s super easy and anybody could do it b/c it prompts you at each step and also uses its own burning software so all you need is a dvd burner and blank media. I know people are going to shout that it’s still dvd-r but you can get high quality media like Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim which I use and have had no problems with over the past few years. I think that is the direction the archive should go which would eliminate the problem with international shipping and lower the cost per film b/c it would then cost them even less to produce.
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post #1519 of 3526
5/5/09 at 6:18am

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Let me clear about something, I am not saying I like the idea of downloading films. I'm like a lot of people here and I have enjoyed "collecting" media over the years. I'm 42 so I've been around long enough to go through several formats for music and film. I have found that the DVD has been by far my favorite format. I like the whole presentation that goes into putting out an album or DVD. So, I'm not advocating that this end.

What I am saying is think how much sense it makes for a company like Warner that no longer needs any middleman to deliver their product to you. With a downloadable product you get it right away, no shipping costs, no production cost, no wasteful packaging. All of these things have appeal not just to Warner but in an economy that is a mess and with rising concern over protecting the environment.

In the end I don't think it will be about whether we "like" the idea I think it will be about the fact that the idea works in so many ways. Retail stores have had CD and DVD product on the chopping block for some time. Catalog titles will no longer be taking up shelf space in brick & mortar retail stores. Borders Books and Music is the latest to slash their inventory.

With the DVD and all "disc" products being labeled one of the most "wasteful" products on the market, I expect a push to be rid of them. I expect retail stores that focus on this media to suffer in this economy. Here in New England we have Newbury Comics, a great store loaded with CD and DVD product and to me they are the test case. As far as music goes downloadable media has destroyed sales. Are you really going to tell me that DVD is far behind?

I think we will see some new products on the market that are better, faster, more reliable and very well hyped that will try to do to DVD or Blu what the iPod did to CD. A place like this will probably be where we will find this shift first...I would think.

The Warner Archive puts Warner ahead of the curve on this. This allows them to shift to the new format with ease because they already have the framework in place. Plus this will be hyped to the market like all format shifts are as THE BEST WAY TO EXPERIENCE MOVIES IN YOUR HOME THEATRE!!!

Sure that part will be hype but it will open the floodgates for thousands and thousands of films "never before available" to now be "at your fingertips" and this is exactly what the Warner Archive has done.

All I'm saying is all signs point to the end of the disc and when "environmental regulation" becomes tangled with the production of disc related product...well...you can kiss it goodbye. Our world is changing and as music and film lovers have always done, they will change with it and adapt to a new format. The younger generation, talk to anybody in their 20s, loves downloading and would prefer to have everything on one small iPod like device....they already despise the disc.
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post #1520 of 3526
5/5/09 at 6:26am

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony J Case
And when that day comes, that'll be the last purchase of a movie I'll ever make. I like things. I like cover art, I like liner notes, I like being able to touch and hold and fondle my disc. I like having a wall of discs at my disposal any time I want, and I like being able to sell off a movie I don't watch anymore. I don't want a stream of bits transmitted through the aether to my television.

I'm sure Reggie is correct, but I also like a bit of a fondle with my discs! Movies & music can go download, books can go electronic, I don't care. I have a ton of movies & nearly all the music I want on disc (& a room full of books), so the world can do what it likes, I'm happy. And anyway this whole Warner thing is a mute point for me, as I'm in the UK.
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post #1521 of 3526
5/5/09 at 6:33am

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggie W
The younger generation, talk to anybody in their 20s, loves downloading and would prefer to have everything on one small iPod like device....they already despise the disc.
Yeah but it doesn't matter what anyone wants to do when there's no way to deliver movies like that right now. Upgrading the internet to the point where millions of people will be able quickly download movies at one time is a long, long time away.
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post #1522 of 3526
5/5/09 at 6:34am

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Well, it looks like we got our Robert Taylor, John Garfield, and Tarzan v. 3 boxed sets -- just not quite the way we wanted them!
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post #1523 of 3526
5/5/09 at 6:47am

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradleyS
Well, it looks like we got our Robert Taylor, John Garfield, and Tarzan v. 3 boxed sets -- just not quite the way we wanted them!

i.e., not as sets. Nor in a box.

And what do you mean 'we'?
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post #1524 of 3526
5/5/09 at 7:54am

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I'm happy to see the Garfield ,Taylor and Tarzan movies available . I was just hoping that they would be in real box sets of dvds. I will end up picking up the ones i want when some coupons or sales show up. I like to pay 10-15 per film shipped. So far that's what i've payed in the 3 orders i've put in. I thought the Archive program might try a box set with the Tarzan movies. It would have been a good test for them to see how a box set might sell in the archive program. A little disappointing.
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post #1525 of 3526
5/5/09 at 7:54am

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I agree that we are getting closer everyday to the end of dvd/cd sections in retail places but I imagine the online market will remain pretty strong for the forseeable future. I like the idea of downloading and burning my own discs like I was describing with the EZ Takes service but I do not want to have to download only. I cannot fully appreciate Gary Cooper’s subtle and superb acting ability (or properly drool over him) on an ipod or PC screen; that’s what I bought my 50” plasma for. I know I’m behind the times on the whole Tivo/DVR thing but I don’t watch enough tv shows to make that worthwhile and when I record movies (mostly from TCM) I want an actual dvd. I have an mp3 player that fits in my palm and has a 30GB hard drive and there are even higher capacity ones that are just as small so it is very possible that as we go farther into the future, DVR type setups will be able to hold more and more which would solve the storage problem for those of us who have large movie collections. But, the downside is too great. What if all your material is lost and you have no backup? Then what?

I was a kid when VHS was new so I’ve seen all the changes from VHS to DVD and vinyl to mp3s and I know dvd\cd won’t be the prevailing format forever. I’ve been collecting dvds since 2001 and haven’t had any problems with them whether they are commercially made or dvd-rs. In the past three years however, I’ve gone through one external hard drive and am now on the second one which I’m guessing only has about one year of life left.

I just hope we will always have access to some sort of physical media (even if we have to provide it ourselves) b/c even though dvds can “go bad”, it seems less likely to happen than something with a hard drive only.
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post #1526 of 3526
5/5/09 at 9:07am

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

The latest release batch is okay, but it seems like Warner is avoiding releasing more horror, sci-fi, and mystery titles. I'd like to see more titles released from those categories, and yes, I too would like to see more titles from the late 1950's through the mid 1970's.
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post #1527 of 3526
5/5/09 at 9:21am

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Quote:
What if all your material is lost and you have no backup? Then what?


That has happened to me with my DISH DVR. They replace the DVR, but you lose all the content. I also have a separate hard drive connected to the DISH DVR, but it will probably fail sometime.

Also, the last time I tried to record Johnny Eager off TCM, there was a storm outside, and i lost part of the film. So, I am happy to see this title added to the Archive (along with a couple other Robert Taylor titles).

I am still not convinced that hi-def formats are completely doomed, though they will likely be a niche market. IMO, downloaded stuff, be it movies or music is simply not as hi-def as a CD, SACD or Blu-ray. I listen mainly to classical music, and while I use my iPod when I am on an airplane, I really do not want to listen to compressed music. Likewise, if I want to watch a movie, it will be on a hi-def 62" TV screen with multichannel DTS HD Master Audio or Dolby True HD; not on some little iPod or Arcos screen no bigger than the palm of my hand. It's a shame that people are choosing convenience over quality.
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post #1528 of 3526
5/5/09 at 9:24am

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

For those who may not know, there are ways to transfer the digital file (mpeg2) of a DVR recording to a PC (as long as it isn't 5C copy restricted, such as from a premium channel). From that you can save/backup the file itself on hard drives or media and/or burn your own playable DVD-R, without any conversion to analog which degrades the picture quality.

I know many do this extensively to build their home recording library. I've captured a handful of TCM movies like this, using the firewire connection on my Comcast Motorola DVR and appropriate software on my iMac. I even used inkjet printable CDs (Taiyo Yuden water shield) and created my own disc art for a few of them. They look great. This process is even simpler with a Tivo (which I don't presently own), because you can just transfer the files over your home network.

If eventually Warner and other studios would offer downloads that can be easily backed up and burned by the consumer to DVD-R, that would be a similar process. But are they really going to allow us to burn our own discs from the downloaded file? Paranoia that we will burn multiple copies and bootleg them will probably restrict that. I think they'd prefer that downloaded copies stay on our hard drives (with heavy digital rights management) in such a way that we can only play them directly from there.
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post #1529 of 3526
5/5/09 at 12:48pm

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I definitely don't think we'll see the end of hi-def; technology is moving in the opposite direction. And I can't imagine why any of the studios would want to deprive themselves of the revenue available from those who wish to own hard-copies of the movies. Blu-ray is doing quite well, thank you.

Now the rental business is something else entirely. I totally agree with Reggie and his take on eliminating the middle men. And there are probably any number of people who would see no need to accumulate and maintain their own library of movies provided that someone else maintains the library for them.

The keys are speed, price, and picture quality, in no particular order. If you could quickly download and watch, in hi-def, any movie you wanted, at any time you wanted to watch it, at a reasonable price, you might not see the point in maintaining a library of your own. If the cost were $15 to buy the movie, but only $5 for a one-time viewing, then, unless you eventually watch the movie four or more times, you're money ahead just to rent it. So would it really matter whether the actual hard copy of the movie was taking up room in your home or simply residing in the Warner (or Fox or MGM or whatever) Archive waiting for your call to download and watch it?

I don't see this as happening immediately, but technology is moving quite rapidly. And I doubt that all of the films would be available in "hi-def" for some time, but the newer ones, the real money-makers would be. And who's to say a movie couldn't be released in this fashion at the same time it's released in the theaters. Eventually, we might not even need theaters.
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post #1530 of 3526
5/5/09 at 1:48pm

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Kuhns

The keys are speed, price, and picture quality, in no particular order. If you could quickly download and watch, in hi-def, any movie you wanted, at any time you wanted to watch it, at a reasonable price, you might not see the point in maintaining a library of your own. If the cost were $15 to buy the movie, but only $5 for a one-time viewing, then, unless you eventually watch the movie four or more times, you're money ahead just to rent it. So would it really matter whether the actual hard copy of the movie was taking up room in your home or simply residing in the Warner (or Fox or MGM or whatever) Archive waiting for your call to download and watch it?

I don't see this as happening immediately, but technology is moving quite rapidly. And I doubt that all of the films would be available in "hi-def" for some time, but the newer ones, the real money-makers would be. And who's to say a movie couldn't be released in this fashion at the same time it's released in the theaters. Eventually, we might not even need theaters.

This would represent the doomsday scenario for me.
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