Warner Archive Discussion Thread (FEEDBACK) - Page 49

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

HI
I didn't have time to check the titles but they now have 170 titles for sale.
Dan

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Let's examine the facts concerning Warner and films from the Classic era.

Fact # 1 -- New release announcements for "normal" DVD's have stopped cold.

Fact # 2 -- Warner has dumped at least 80 catalog titles at Big Lots for $3.00 each and more new titles are appearing weekly.

Fact # 3 -- Certain catalog titles are now out of print (like the Burt Lancaster Signature Collection)

Fact # 4 -- At the same time when all of this is going on, Warner announces the DVD-R MOD Archive Program.

You can examine these facts and make your own conclusions.

Now here is my prediction:

Not only will there not be many, if any, future "normal" DVD new releases, I am going to predict that all of the existing Warner catalog titles will slowly go out of print and then reappear in the future under the Archive program. The WBShop will be your one and only place to buy Warner DVD's.

You better grab any "normal" Warner titles you want now before the eBay speculators gobble them all up.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

It was happening without the Warner Archive anyway. I remember reading posts over a year ago about Warner's catalog announcements being, on the average, less than what they use to be in, say, 2003-2006. The belt was being tightened regardless.

As for titles that they were attempting to put in a box but ultimately went to the Warner Archive - other studios also have this happen. Do you know what happens when those other studios decide the cost of the box isn't justifiable anymore? They don't release them. At all.

#1 and #4 are definitely related. You better believe the marketing division is purposely letting the Warner Archive have the spotlight for at least a few months.

#2 is a reflection of overstock not selling. This is a direct result of Best Buy, Target, Wal-Mart, Borders, etc. reducing their willingness to carry classic catalog titles. Now why would hey do that? Only one reason: they don't sell well enough. Thsi would have happened whether the Warner Archive existed or not.

#3 is an isolated case and can't be used to measure anything by. As was pointed out earlier, it may have gone OOP for a totally different reason, such as one of the films in the set having a legal issue.

I'll add my own #5: Do certain people believe that Warner representatives outright lied to this forum when they said that regular catalog releases would still be released? I find such hard to believe. There will still be regular DVD releases of catalog titles. Probably reduced in number, yes, and likely with a couple months of down time to market the Warner Archive. But the "Panic!" that this thread permeates with is, as I said before, bordering on the surreal.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I guess, the new ones are:

Broadway Rhythm (1944)
Badman's Territory (1946)
Breakfast for Two (1937)
Tom, Dick And Harry (1941)
Two Girls And A Sailor (1944)

And they appeared on Gregory Mesh's list and you could find the covers via the google products search.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I think few people believe that the regular catalog DVD well has run completely dry. This "panic" you're seeing, is the very real understanding of what Warner is now considering release-worthy, based on what is showing up in the Archives.

I certainly expect another catalog announcement someday, but I now know of 170 titles that won't be in that next announcement and may never see an improved release, with fancy features like...subtitles.

There are at least a half dozen Archive titles that frankly surprised me as no longer being good enough for wide release. Now 6 out of 170 is pretty darn good, but folks are now wondering what's next. Instead of looking forward to Archives announcements, some of us are starting to dread them because some of our hoped-for titles may become second-class citizens, so to speak.

I get the fact that something is better than nothing, but the bar seems to have been markedly raised on what titles merit proper release, and I don't see how that can get anybody excited. For those that are excited, I congratulate them on getting something they want at a price/quality level that they can accept. I'll admit it, I'm envious because for the half dozen or so titles that I really care about, I don't accept the Archive price/quality level.

It's ironic that in the age of hi-def, expensive burnt discs with zero features and interlaced transfers are getting folks all giddy. To me, that is surreal.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Brandon, good post. I agree that the slowdown of "normal" catalog titles was already happening. From that viewpoint the Archive opens up the possibility for release of titles that may not ever be released. That's a good thing.

On the other hand ...

Scott, also a good post. Now that the Archive is here, the fear (not panic) is that the bar is raised even higher for normal releases. And I completely agree about the irony of the move to lower quality in the age of hi-def. None of the titles so far released has tempted me at the current price/quality level. There are some interesting movies in there, but none I have to own at the asking price. I guess I've just been too spoiled by box sets on sale getting me $5-6/movie.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

The archives were being planned for the past 2 years, how do you know that the decrease in titles wasn't because they knew they would be introducing this new program?

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I guess the archive release of multi-star MGM musicals such as Broadway Rhythm, Thousands Cheer and Two Girls And A Sailor decreases the likelihood that Warners will release another MGM "Classic Musicals" Box set.

Hopefully the announcements will come soon for the Showboat and Esther Williams Volume 2 dvd box sets...and that they will not be bare bones releases like the Early Sinatra musicals set which lacked even chapter stops.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Actually, we are all speculating on what Warner's plans may or may not have been. However, with that said, I'm going to give Warner the benefit of a doubt that their catalog releases will continue as I'm not prepared to take the negative slant you and some others are espousing here. There will be plenty of time for that if it comes true that Warner is abandoning releasing their catalog titles through the normal retail route.

It's kind of funny that one day Warner is seen as the film buff's dream studio and the next day it's now certain film buffs nightmare.





Crawdaddy

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I agree with your post. I have embraced the Archives collection as I would never have thought there would be 170 catalog titles released in the time span of two months (Tell me what other company has released so many titles this year). I also agree that there are problems (transfer, no extras, and price point), but the experts (Robert Harris, Robert Crawford) say that is being addressed and time will tell. I have already seen coupons and sales for the titles. In fact, this month is my birthday and Warners e-mailed me a code for 25% off any Warner title for the month of May (Don't anyone ask for it). I have already used it on some new WA titles and it worked.

Titles such as Broadway Rhythm and most of the others, never made it to laserdisc and since it has been over a decade for DVD's, I thought they never would. Who would have thought in 2009 with past releases and the WA releases that you could have almost all of Clark Gable, Greta Garbo, and Joan Crawford's films on your shelf. On Borrowed Time is one of my favorite films and I had almost worn out my laser copy. The transfer is not perfect, but a heck of a lot better than the laser.

I have faith that there will be a Showboat Collection this year, and it might even have a Blu-ray release. I also have faith that we will see Andy Hardy, Bowery Boys, Raintree County, and maybe even Twilight's Last Gleaming as regular DVD releases and not Archives sometime this year.

The WA is a smorgasbord of what every classic film lover wants. There is on another thread discussion on lack of releases from MGM and FOX which have completely dried up. The happy notes are Universal and Sony, but their number of releases is no where near what Warners released just last year or the first three of months of this year.

I plan to enjoy the WA program and support it on the titles I want. I also look forward to lower prices and better transfers. I also can not wait to see what they do with the short collections.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Yes, I and others here are speculating, and I am hoping that Warner will get back on track in releasing calssic films every month like they were doing. I don't think anyone believes Warner is going to totally abandon its classic DVD releases, but there is worry that it may affect (or already has) the number of titles they put out on regular DVD in the future. I do believe we will no longer see the number of releases we were seeing 2 years ago. I think the John Garfield titles in the archives pretty much shows us that the good old days are gone.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Is that Warner's fault or those releases aren't selling enough units? All of us want every title released on dvd, but that's a wish, but we live in reality.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Nobody's blaming poor sales on WHV, studios can't make people buy titles. But the fact remains that the likes of the Garfield's and (maybe) the Robert Taylor titles going to the Archives, and the absence of any regular announcements does not bode well for future releases from this company.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Well as they say - things do change, nothing lasts forever, and all that.

Sony for years was a collectors nightmare, yet based on the past year and what they have planned for this year and beyond it looks like they're poised to dethrone Warner. I also remember years ago how crummy Warner was with releasing classics to DVD. Now I do admire and appreciate what Warner has done over the years with their classics however I really don't get emotionally involved in these companies, like it seems some people do. They're neither angels or demons to me. The way I see it is that they run a business by offering items for sale and I'm a consumer.

Now the general Archive concept of making unmarketable/unsaleable/obscure films available is a good one. However, when I see titles that normally (in the good old pressed DVD days) would be obvious choices (IMO) for themed boxed sets pop up in the Archives I can pretty much see the writing on the wall. For instance, films like Westbound and Wichita which would've made for fine additions to a future Classic Western set. A film like Stranger on the Third Floor, often cited as the granddaddy of the Noir movement is planned to be dumped in the archives, rather then it's proper place in a Noir set. Then there's The Beast with 5 Fingers is arguably one of better (if not one of the most respected) of their remaining classic Horror films and yep.....it's planned for the Archives dumping ground.

I'm continuing to watch for new Archive titles with dread. I guess we'll all see how many big gun titles pop up in the coming months.

I have no animosity towards Warner no matter what the future holds and I'll continue to purchase their products that interest me and offers a good value but I'm far less optimistic than some in regards to their future pressed DVD output. But that's just the way I'm wired.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

You can take that leap, but I won't at this time.





Crawdaddy

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

How do you know that another person is emotionally involved with these companies? I just hate it when people assume what goes on in the minds of other people that they don't know personally.





Crawdaddy

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Please excuse this intrusion Mister Crawford but you have to admit that they have no respect for the international customers as they delivered the following statment a few weeks ago : There will be a availability of product WORLDWIDE shortly through the Warner Archive Collection. SHORTLY. We just don't have a date yet...it could be only a few days away.... bear with us...This would be only applicable to the films where we hold worldwide rights, which is MOST of them (from Subject: Live Chat with Warner Home Video Theatrical - Date: Monday, March 23, 2009) and they keep silence about this since that day

What do they mean by "SHORTLY", two weeks, two months, two years ?

At least, I think we deserve to get some information's from Warner Bros as we still hope that the international shipping will return soon.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

WB does still plan to release box sets as they have stated in the chat. If I could ever become good enough at setting myself up in the ask question order of the chat I could have confirmed what some Gary Cooper sources have told me on a definate Gary Cooper Vol 2 box set which will contain at the very least these four movies, Saratoga Trunk, Task Force, Bright Leaf, and Blowing Wild. Bright Leaf was obviously pulled from the archieve for this future box set release that has not officially been announced by WB yet.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

In this talk about the Warner Archive Collection and the lessened number of standard releases, has anyone else noted that Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary, which was celebrated by WHV last year in a big promotion, was to be followed by an 85th Anniversary celebration of MGM THIS YEAR, but hasn't been?

One would have thought that the release of the Emmy-winning 6-hour documentary about MGM's history, MGM: WHEN THE LION ROARS, in January, would have been hyped as the start of a year-long promotion, but the DVD just sort of escaped, and nothing more has really been done with MGM Anniversary-wise despite a few scattered MGM film releases and random box sets on the release schedule.

This could be partially due to the economy, but, on the other hand, you've got to promote to sell and interest your audience.

One would have thought that this was the ideal year to promote, besides Esther Williams 2---a Margaret O'Brien box for families; a Gable-Crawford box; a Jean Harlow box; another MGM Classical Musicals box; a Robert Taylor "noir" box including JOHNNY EAGER, THE HIGH WALL, ROGUE COP, PARTY GIRL, and THE BRIBE; a Debbie Reynolds "Birthday Box" in April (....she's out on the road constantly and could promote it at every stop), an MGM CinemaScope Swashbuckler box including QUENTIN DURWARD, THE KING'S THIEF, MOONFLEET, DIANE, and SWORDSMAN OF SIENA; a "Lana and Her Men" box (including Gable, Taylor, Tracy, Heflin, Johnson), a "June Allyson and Van Johnson Romantic Comedy Collection" including THE BRIDE GOES WILD, TOO YOUNG TO KISS, REMAINS TO BE SEEN, HIGH BARBAREE, and TWO GIRLS AND A SAILOR, an "MGM Concert Hall Collection" including THE GREAT CARUSO, INTERRUPTED MELODY, THE GREAT WALTZ (1938), SONG OF LOVE, FOR THE FIRST TIME and ALL of the MGM "Concert Hall" shorts gathered together in one place......

I'd have bought ANY or ALL of these.

I won't buy a DVD-R and have already, sadly, passed on the Merian Cooper/RKO films box.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Hey, I've been on Warner since "day one" about them not allowing international customers to get in on this program. I thought their chat answer to that issue being addressed in a "few days" was way too optimistic which gave them no wiggle room as people will take them at their word in actually meaning a "few days". I expect something has happened to cause this delay, but it would be nice to hear from Warner about it. They don't neccessarily have to tell us why the delay, but a simple statement of them trying to rectify this situation is better than hearing nothing, but silence.






Crawdaddy

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Since you emphasized that sentence from that quote you might want to note again where it says seems.

Let's just say I've read posts that have an obvious emotional slant towards defending Warner at every turn (not you but I'm not going to mention any particular posters) and on the flipside I've read posts with the opposite emotional spin.

It's obvious to me that when an argument becomes heated (as this topic has gotten at times) people are usually wrapped up emotionally in the subject. For instance, when those of us who're less than "enthusiastic" are called whiners (and whatever else) by some it doesn't take a degree in psychology to know there's some deeper issues going on in that person's head.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I don't know you nor anybody else well enough to assume what deep issues are in play here. It could be a number of things that has nothing to do with Warner or some perceived emotional attachment. That's all I'm saying.





Crawdaddy

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Also just speculating on this but for Clark Gable fans there was an incredable amount of movies initially put in the archieves for Gable/crawford, Gable/Loy, Gable/Shearer, and Gable/Turner, yet none for Gable/Harlow. This would seem that there are definate plans for a Jean Harlow or Clark Gable Box set. Jean Harlow set was mentioned in the chat and I would think and hope that it will be very heavy on her Clark Gable parinings. Also one of those box sets similar to Tracy/hepburn titled Gable/Harlow could be in for a not so distant future box set release. I don't think movies put in the Archieves will be very soon to see an official box set release. WB probably doesn't want to get alot of those double dipping complaints from us.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I don't think double dipping "complaints" will be the factor, rather the fact that these films have a limited customer base as it is and once it's sold as an Archive they've just cut into the prospective DVD customer base for that title.

For me, once I've spent $15 - $25 on a title it's going to be very difficult to entice me to buy the same film all over again within a certain amount of years and only if there's a vast improvement in PQ and overall presentation.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Yeah, I'd have to agree. Anything can happen, but I would assume any title appearing in the Archives is pretty much off the board for another release. If it was an iffy title to begin with and Archives just poached the core audience, what would be the point of wide release?

My guess would be that the next release for these titles will be in the next home video format...and I don't mean Blu.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

I wouldn't say a title is off the board for a regular release if it makes it to the WA. If there's a certain title that sells extremely well then that would create incentive to prepare a new transfer and some extras and sell a regular release as a Special Edition. They would expect a certain percentage of those customers who bought the WA release to take the double dip if they made it worthwhile.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Yeah, I'm not completely discounting the idea. I just think that the odds drop rather dramatically considering that Warner is on record as saying that a title needs to project at a minimum of 20,000 for wide release. I presume there are other possibilities, such as some kind of sponsoring partnership that could knock that number down.

To put it a different way, how many double dips have we seen thus far on these deeper catalog titles? It's been predominantly a one and done situation. I honestly think the best hope is that some of the better Archive sellers may possibly be packaged together into some sort of box set for retail. Strange as it sounds, the problems with international shipping might accelerate something like this. Not that I wish more bad news on our international members.

Re: Warner Archive Discussion Thread

Definitely. The WA can obviously be used as a sort of "poll" to find titles that may be viable for a full release. After all, only a small number of classic film buffs are likely to use the WA. If a title sells particularly well, they can extrapolate that perhaps it might sell well at retail if they can get stores to carry it, which seems to be the bigger problem at the moment. There's no point in a full retail release if retail outlets will not carry it.

Re: *** Official Warner Archive DVD Review Thread

Except for that two minute segment you mentioned, I thought the transfer was okay considering no work has been done to it. Furthermore, it's exactly the same transfer used on the TCM telecasts. After watching the archive disc in its entirety, I did a comparison with my DVD-R copy and found hardly no differences between the two discs. Therefore, I'm going to be more careful in buying future archive discs for titles that I already have DVD-R recording of a TCM telecast.






Crawdaddy

Re: *** Official Warner Archive DVD Review Thread

I found the few Warner Archive titles that I purchased, while already having a DVD-R recording from TCM, to be superior to what I had. The transfers appear to be the same, but there is something to be said for the added compression and manipulation from a digital broadcast when compared to a DVD minted from the actual transfer master.

Here are some captures below. Note the added sharpness in the color captures. Again, it is subtle, but probably enough to warrant a purchase for some people.

TCM broadcast


Warner Archive DVD



TCM broadcast


Warner Archive DVD



TCM broadcast


Warner Archive DVD



TCM broadcast


Warner Archive DVD



TCM broadcast


Warner Archive DVD