Robert Harris on The Bits: Resurrecting and Restoring the Alamo! - Page 4

Oh, ouch. Well, I guess all we have left now is hope and faith! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

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And charity. The holy trinity; could come in useful.

I own a copy of the laserdisc of the Alamo and on the box it states "Deluxe Letter-Box Edition" restored original Director's Cut.  The laserdisc includes the entrance and exit music.  In describing the restoration the literature states "this is the first time the complete 202 minute  "roadshow version" has been seen since the premier engagement in 1960.  Two weeks after the initial release the movie was re-cut to 162 minutes.  The restored footage was transferred from an uncut 70MM print discovered in Toronto and seamlessly edited into the 1990 digital masters.

 

Why can't the 1990 restored digital masters be used to create a BluRay disc?  PBS has shown the complete "roadshow version" in letterbox comparable to a standard DVD with average detail.  Maybe PBS is showing a copy of the master that was used to create the laserdisc?

LaserDisc masters were created for that particular format. While it is higher resolution than VHS, it still has shortcomings compared to masters created for DVD and especially BD, specifically no anamorphic enhancement for 16:9 displays and not mastered in HD. In the early days of DVD, there were quite a few DVDs released that were simply "ports" of old LD transfers. To be polite, they looked like garbage, running rampant with digital artifacts and the reduced resolution associated with letterboxed 4:3 transfers. What looks OK in broadcast is simply not up to snuff for today's technology, which is why so many people were annoyed with Lucasfilm when they chose to use THX LD masters to present the original Staw Wars films in their original form. Those masters didn't hold a candle to the masters for the Special Editions, because of the above deficiencies.
 

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It's sometimes best not to believe everything that one might read on packaging.
 

It seems hope is fading that we will have a full restoration. This is so sad. Is there a Plan B, I wonder? Of course, we would all like to see the roadshow "director's cut", but I would actually settle for the "roadshow version" that I saw at the cinema in 1960. And it was roadshow - it was on for weeks at a single cinema in Sheffield, UK, before moving on to other cities one by one - but it wasn't the director's cut and did not include the sequences identified as "restored" in the laser disc version. But, crucially, it had the overture, entr'acte and exit music intact. Hence my disgust to find that these where not on the DVD release when it came out. Now, question - the quality of the DVD, whilst not HD, looks pretty good to me when up scaled to 1080p on a 50" plasma (certainly much better than the laser disc does – the DVD is 16:9 anamorphic for a start). So what was the source for this transfer - is it a different source than the laser disc version? If so, what about the cut footage that just precedes the intermission (where Bowie walks off leaving Crockett on the battlements – on the DVD, we just catch the start of this, before there is a sudden cut to after where the intermission title and entr'acte music should be) - was this cut out for convenience, or does it not exist on the DVD source at all? If it does exist, can we not have a Blu-ray with the sound remastered and the overture music, the sequence leading up to the intermission title, the entr'acte music itself and the exit music included. If the sound elements exist, the critical bit is just the sequence leading up to and including the intermission title, as the overture, entr'acte and exit music are all played against titles (which can be redone or even omitted altogether, as in the cinema). And if the sound elements do exist, a remaster in DTS-HD or lossless PCM would make a BD release very worthwhile, even if the picture is only marginally better than standard DVD quality.

 

Well, just a thought!

 

Back to the original restoration, if there is still hope. Continued good wishes with the fund raising, Mr. Harris. Would you please not reconsider and accept public donations for a special BD release? Donators could have their names inserted in special credits at the end (after the exit music, of course), as Peter Jackson did with the LOTR special editions. I seem to remember that $200 or $300 was charged for this, for which I think you also got a commemorative plaque of some sort. I'm retired and not rich, but I would certainly pay this much - and I am sure that many, many people would pay more (you could have different categories of donations, with the more expensive category having their names larger, on a separate scroll, nicer font etc.)

 

All the Best, whichever way things go!

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MGM has requested that individual donors not be involved.  The film can only be saved by large single donations, ie. trusts and such or via corporate sponsorship.

I hope the restoration can move along as best as it can. Is it ok to disclose how much is needed for the restoration... is it upwards to 3 million or more.

 

Are we looking at possibly 2 more years to go?

 

I feel bad MGM is in so much trouble, MGM/UA seems to have a healthy catalog of titles. I would still like a BD released for Fiddler on the Roof and West Side Story. I am also a sucker for the old Corman Midnite Movie selections etc.

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1.3 million.

Just saw this article that paints a pretty optimistic picture that MGM's situation will be settled soon. Let's hope so!

I just did some searching and found 3 more articles that seems to paint a better picture then the EW article did.

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i4b7c0879c181d50b66a3bea780098bc7

 

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2010/08/spyglass-close-to-a-deal-to-takeover-management-of-mgm.html

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1017539120100810

 

I still have the 3-disc laser set.  It's still sealed.  I'd love to get that copied over to DVD someday.  Has to be better quality then my VHS copy to DVD I made.

 

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The articles do seem brighter, but the underlining tone of all three, is where is the money coming from to make new films?  Without that funding there is no MGM. 

 

I too still have the Roadshow laser version of the Alamo.  I will hold on to that until either a DVD comes out or my laser players die.  And even then I will hold on to it. 
 

 

 

I copied my rented laser disc to S-VHS. I wish I had a DVD player back then to copy it to.
 

I need to record my roadshow laserdisc to DVD, too. I guess a worst-case scenario release could be seamless branching with the low-res laserdisc master used for the new content only. I should think the final result would be rather like watching the Pioneer 1776 laserdisc that used scratchy work-print stock for some scenes.

I still have an unopened copy of The Alamo on Laserdisc.  I don't have a machine anymore but if I did I would connect it to one of my DVR's and copy it to a high quality DVD.  That's about the only way I'd open this copy.  Here's to MGM finding the money for this project real soon.

i suggest you find a machine and check it out. Laserdiscs have a track record of "laser rot" which develops over time. You might be unlucky.
 

Mr. Harris.  Now that MGM's situation seems to be resolved, are there any updates on the restoration of the Alamo.

Wish there was something to report.  The tracks have been saved.  The image languishes.

 

Gah!

Rubbish movie. John Ford directed better ones in his sleep. A pity he didn't give any pointers to ole Marion.

If you know anything about Ford, I'd have thought that you'd at least know that he do'd, er, did.

I read that Ford paid John a visit on the set of the film and was giving him so many pointers on how to direct it that John asked him to direct some of the Mexican Army shots to get him off is back.  Ford actually went and did this.

That's too bad.  Actually, I think that it is a very good film.  It's not as good as if John Ford had done it, but it is better than some of Ford's late Westerns.  Since Wayne saw it as his personal statement, he probably did not want it to be a John Ford film. I have always liked it a lot since I saw it on a national network's Sunday Night movie in the 1970s.  Hopefully, something can be done. 

 

BTW: Can you explain exactly how the 1990s 202 inute VHS was not exactly the original roadshow version.  I did notice that after the credits, the aspect ratio of the letterbox decreased, but I a curious about the rest.
 

I think there are so many sizes and times of this film it's hard to keep track of.  The roadshow version, the cut version after the roadshow was pulled.  The re-release in 1967, the DVD release, the UK release, the laserdisc release and the TV release.  Some has different aspect ratios, differences for NTSC and PAL.  Robert may be able to give a shortened reason but a detailed one can be found here:  The Alamo Comparisons

 

Personally I have the laserdisc, three different VHS releases, a Region 1 DVD and a Region 2 DVD.  When I want to see the full version I watch my VHS copy with the code "M302581" on the side of the box.

 

I am currently researching a bio of Wayne for a writer and have just gone through the Batjac files at USC. Since the film did not get into profit until two decades ago, UA has all rights to the film and I do not think Batjac or the Wayne family sees any money from it.  UA and the people Wayne went to for extra funding saw money first before he did, and since MCLINTOCK! was a UA release, only the success of that film got Wayne solvent again.

 

I used to know Rennie Johnson when he was with MGM/UA, and I know he was thrilled to put that deluxe laserdisc out some years ago.

 

I think the reason the film exists in that longer version is because it opened in Canada two weeks before the big premiere in Texas, and since Batjac was paying a royalty to Todd-AO for each print, they might have decided to just let the print run until the booking ended rather than spring for another print.  It ran for four months there and then just went to that distribution center there where it was forgotten.

The print was far from forgotten. It was there if requested, was run into the 1980s, and would have still been in pristine condition were it not for

its mishandling, and subsequent mis-storage during and after the creation of the laser disc.

 

RAH

If it was run into the 80's, why did this legend persist about the longer version being "lost?"  Or unavailable?  I am really surprised the Film Foundation hasn't become involved in getting the film restored (unless it was requested) or that AMPAS hasn't offered to get involved.

Because those viewing it were unaware of what it was.

This is for Mr. Harris, or anyone in-the-know:

 

I have a CD of the Alamo soundtrack that includes an alternate theme for the final shot, "The Eyes of Texas." Although anachronistic, it is dramatically appropriate and would have been effective, I believe. "The Eyes Of Texas" is also credited in the opening titles as being used by permission of the UT Students' Association.

 

Was it actually used on any prints, such as (just a guess) roadshow prints destined for the Texas market? Or is this just an idea that was scrapped late in post-production? Thanks, and it's nice to have discovered this forum. Perhaps there is hope one day for a Blu-Ray of the VHS Roadshow version I have and still cherish.

Looking back at some of my old DVD's - purchased in Singapore 10 years ago - found The Alamo. I had not played for years - but looked at the details and expected it to be the edited version - but no - 202 mins ! I have a DVD of the roadshow version. Double sided - Dolby Digital sound (2+2) - no extras. Great condition.

Seems it is a DVD version of the LD Roadshow.
Picture obviously not Blu Ray - but very watchable - LB presentation

I can wait a little longer now for the restored Blu Ray version which I hope will one day be completed